Announcing the "Insight+" low cost upgrade

Tone Depth · « **Reply #60 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 03:08 am »

Quote from: Tom Alverson on 20 Mar 2009, 09:45 pm

Here is a picture of the fake chip compared to a real one.

Looks to me that the one on the left is the OPA627AP and the one on the right is the OPA636BP. The AP Op Amp is the subject chip for replacement of the AD device in the Insight circuitry.

Edit: oops, I was confusing AP/BP for 627/637 (just went back and read Frank's earlier posts).

Triode Pete · « **Reply #61 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 04:37 pm »

According to the TI data sheets, they (TI-Burr Brown) manufacture OPA627BP Op-Amps. They are considered "B" Grade and have 22 different electrical parameters than the OPA627AP, such as offset voltage, input bias current, noise, open-loop gain, etc.

The B versions aren't fake but simply the wrong op-amp for AVA gear...

Audios,
Pete

Tom Alverson · « **Reply #62 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 06:12 pm »

The B version is just a selected A chip with some tightened specs that make no real difference in this application (primarily the offset voltage). Both the A and B should have the same resistance reading between pins 1 and 5 and the fake does not.

turkey · « **Reply #63 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 06:45 pm »

Quote from: Tom Alverson on 21 Mar 2009, 06:12 pm

The B version is just a selected A chip with some tightened specs that make no real difference in this application (primarily the offset voltage). Both the A and B should have the same resistance reading between pins 1 and 5 and the fake does not.

Correct. The B is not a "better" chip in this circumstance. It isn't worse either - just not worth paying a premium for.

If you buy from a reputable vendor (like Newark, Digikey, or Mouser), you won't have any problems with fakes.

JerryM · « **Reply #64 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 07:14 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 21 Mar 2009, 06:45 pm

If you buy from a reputable vendor (like Newark, Digikey, or Mouser), you won't have any problems with fakes.

Another reputable vendor I've had great success with; AVA.

Have fun,
Jerry

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #65 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 07:38 pm »

Frank,
Do these new ICs have any application in the FM-5 audio sections you've recently modified?

turkey · « **Reply #66 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: JerryM on 21 Mar 2009, 07:14 pm

Quote from: turkey on 21 Mar 2009, 06:45 pm
If you buy from a reputable vendor (like Newark, Digikey, or Mouser), you won't have any problems with fakes.

Another reputable vendor I've had great success with; AVA.

I've always heard that Frank is an irascible curmudgeon. So he's refutable too?

Reprehensible? No, that's not right. Reprobate. No, that's not it either. All these R words get me confused.

Ah, reputable, that's the one.

Wayner · « **Reply #67 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 09:02 pm »

Frank is the most generous man I have ever met. He calls the shots as they are. He asked me first to evaluate the new OP-AMPS, and I remember him saying, "the world depends on you". Well, hell, it was easy. I know some people get frustrated with the constant changing. Frank doesn't sit on his hands. If new stuff makes an improvement, why not pass the opportunity along?

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

Wayner

turkey · « **Reply #68 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 21 Mar 2009, 09:02 pm

Frank is the most generous man I have ever met. He calls the shots as they are. He asked me first to evaluate the new OP-AMPS, and I remember him saying, "the world depends on you". Well, hell, it was easy. I know some people get frustrated with the constant changing. Frank doesn't sit on his hands. If new stuff makes an improvement, why not pass the opportunity along?

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

Wayner

I would say that things only change when they need to change. There isn't any unnecessary change with AVA gear.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #69 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 11:07 pm »

Quote from: turkey on 21 Mar 2009, 09:51 pm

Quote from: Wayner on 21 Mar 2009, 09:02 pm
Frank is the most generous man I have ever met. He calls the shots as they are. He asked me first to evaluate the new OP-AMPS, and I remember him saying, "the world depends on you". Well, hell, it was easy. I know some people get frustrated with the constant changing. Frank doesn't sit on his hands. If new stuff makes an improvement, why not pass the opportunity along?

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

Wayner

I would say that things only change when they need to change. There isn't any unnecessary change with AVA gear.

Yes, this upgrade was undoubtedly not a "money-maker" for Frank. Generous is an understatement.

turkey · « **Reply #70 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 11:20 pm »

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 21 Mar 2009, 11:07 pm

Yes, this upgrade was undoubtedly not a "money-maker" for Frank. Generous is an understatement.

I'm sure he's making money on it.

What is a better way of looking at it is that he's making the upgrade available inexpensively. Too many of the other companies in this business would charge you an order of magnitude or two more for the same thing.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #71 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 12:35 am »

Quote from: turkey on 21 Mar 2009, 11:20 pm

Quote from: oneinthepipe on 21 Mar 2009, 11:07 pm

Yes, this upgrade was undoubtedly not a "money-maker" for Frank. Generous is an understatement.

I'm sure he's making money on it.

What is a better way of looking at it is that he's making the upgrade available inexpensively. Too many of the other companies in this business would charge you an order of magnitude or two more for the same thing.

Well, I hope that Frank makes some money and doesn't lose money from conducting the research about the chips, testing them in a unit, testing the individual chips, and packing them up and mailing them to DIY'ers or installing them for non-DIY'ers. When I stated "money-maker," I meant some amount that wasn't de minimis. Notwithstanding, I shouldn't have commented about Frank's business. I merely wanted to say to thank you to Frank for making this upgrade available.

Brett Buck · « **Reply #72 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 02:22 am »

Quote from: turkey on 21 Mar 2009, 06:45 pm

If you buy from a reputable vendor (like Newark, Digikey, or Mouser), you won't have any problems with fakes.

Don't be so sure of that. I work in the Aerospace industry (Lockheed Space Systems) and even we have all sorts of problems with counterfeit parts. Usually, the parts are actually OK but haven't been certified to meet the appropriate MIL specs, but sometimes they are just phony. It's a big problem when you build up an entire spacecraft, the part works for a while, and then when you do a flash X-ray, or thermal vacuum testing, the thing fails, you have to take the whole damn thing apart at incredible cost.

The vendors like Newark, etc, (who we don't usually deal with directly) are middle-men, too. They can be just as burned as the end users. We can afford to have the parts screened 100%, but I have seen mission success bulletins that look EXACTLY like this thread, complete with pictures of the good and bad parts. If we ever get a line on the perpetrators, they are going *under* some jail somewhere based on the National Security Act.

Brett

rcag_ils · « **Reply #73 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 12:39 pm »

Brett, does Lockleed build their own boards, or they hire sub-contractors to do it? I thought either way, they would purchase parts directly from the manufacturer, in this case, it would be Texas Instrument, then TI would get parts from the factory in the Far East. I am sure TI has representative stationed in the Far East to monitor the manufacturing process. I suspect the bad parts that found their way to the end user is just a case of bad luck and not necessarily conterfeit parts.

avahifi · « **Reply #74 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 06:52 pm »

When we test the new 627 devices in circuit before shipping to you, we would catch any counterfits because we can easily see the "signature" of a properly working device in the circuit application. A fake device will stand out like a sore thumb under our test procedure. We have had no counterfit device problems so far. If you order from us, you will get real tested devices.

We did get a fake batch of AD847 devices several years ago. In our test circuits they would not even play a full power 20KHz sine wave cleanly and the vendor did take them all back for a refund.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

rcag_ils · « **Reply #75 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 02:29 am »

Frank, if the counterfeit 847 chips would stand out like a soar thumb on the bench, what did they sound like?

BrianM · « **Reply #76 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 07:07 pm »

Just sent my Ultra DAC out to Frank for a new current buffer stage thingy (an Insight design detail that can also be implemented in the hybrid DAC) plus the new op amp chip thingies. If any other Ultra DAC owners are curious about it I'll be happy to comment once I've heard it, with the obvious caveat that I'm having two thingies done at once and so couldn't comment on the individual components.

Toka · « **Reply #77 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 07:10 pm »

Quote from: BrianM on 23 Mar 2009, 07:07 pm

Just sent my Ultra DAC out to Frank for a new current buffer stage thingy (an Insight design detail that can also be implemented in the hybrid DAC) plus the new op amp chip thingies. If any other Ultra DAC owners are curious about it I'll be happy to comment once I've heard it, with the obvious caveat that I'm having two things done at once and so couldn't comment on the individual components.

I am not an Ultra owner but would still like to read your impressions.

DSK · « **Reply #78 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 08:36 pm »

I installed the BB OPA627AP's from Frank last weekend, not really expecting to hear a change (but for $80 it was worth a try). Happy to say that there is unmistakable improvement. The presentation is more open, with greater vitality and inner detail across the audible range. PRAT was enhanced as a result. You also hear more venue detail and decay and a very slight glassiness on strings etc has disappeared completely.

rajacat · « **Reply #79 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 09:27 pm »

I guess that owners of the T7 pre and others using the 12AT7 tubes aren't going to have any fun with upgrades.

Well....my T7 sounds great anyway

but I'll have to limit my tweaks to tube rolling.

-Roy