Announcing the "Insight+" low cost upgrade

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #100 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 09:34 pm »

I own both the Insight and the Ultra Pre-amps. I have a slight preference for the clarity and bass reproduction of the Insight, especially with the new op-amps; but the Ultra does have a sort of euphonic sweetness in the mids that I prefer on some classical material (strings in particular). It also images slightly wider, but not as deep as the Insight. I'd not feel slighted with either one if I were forced to choose.

rajacat · « **Reply #101 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 10:12 pm »

Quote from: Dan Kolton on 13 Apr 2009, 09:34 pm

I own both the Insight and the Ultra Pre-amps. I have a slight preference for the clarity and bass reproduction of the Insight, especially with the new op-amps; but the Ultra does have a sort of euphonic sweetness in the mids that I prefer on some classical material (strings in particular). It also images slightly wider, but not as deep as the Insight. I'd not feel slighted with either one if I were forced to choose.

What is euphonic sweetness? Is it distortion or is it really the way it would sound if it was live? Does it mean that the live classical music has euphonic sweetness or does the music lack this trait and the preamp is adding an euphoria that doesn't exist in reality? I always thought that live strings, if played well, do sound euphonic and sweet therfore I wouldn't like an amp that doesn't reproduce this trait accurately.

-Roy

avahifi · « **Reply #102 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 10:19 pm »

The 12AT7/ECC81 tubes mentioned above are the same JJ Electronics tubes we have been using for some time now with excellent results. The "A" at the end of the name is likely a mistake on my part. Don't read anything special about that.

Regarding the sound of Insight vs: Ultra, I agree with Dan Kolton. Both are great, which is most right? I don't know. Both are close. Insight is much less expensive. Great. Insight uses dreaded ICs and stuff like that. Bad. Ultra has tubes. Good or bad depending upon where you are coming from. I could live with either quite happily.

Our best advice. Buy the most expensive stuff from us that you can afford.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. I suppose I could put both Ultra and Insight line stages in one preamp chassis and let you switch between them, but that would take a lot of wiring changes and the insides would look like a plate of spaghetti.

BrianM · « **Reply #103 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 10:28 pm »

As you can see, Frank plainly thinks he has just about caught up to his Ultra performance with solid state technology.

If anyone wants to arrange a swap or comparo I'd be interested and willing.

I don't think the Ultra gear sounds tubey. I think it sounds pretty darn neutral, and its greatest strength is the ability to throw a huge soundstage that puts the performers right there in the room. Scary-immediate stuff on the best recordings. Even the T8 tube unit sound doesn't hit you over the head with tubes; the Ultra is decidedly a few degrees sharper than that. It's a lovely balance of tonal richness and detail. But it sure doesn't sound like the price gap between Ultra and Insight reflects the performance gap any longer.

BrianM · « **Reply #104 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 10:29 pm »

Quote

P.S. I suppose I could put both Ultra and Insight line stages in one preamp chassis and let you switch between them, but that would take a lot of wiring changes and the insides would look like a plate of spaghetti.

Dude, that would be awesome. Then you could send it around as a demo unit.

guest1632 · « **Reply #105 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 10:39 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 13 Apr 2009, 10:19 pm

The 12AT7/ECC81 tubes mentioned above are the same JJ Electronics tubes we have been using for some time now with excellent results. The "A" at the end of the name is likely a mistake on my part. Don't read anything special about that.

Regarding the sound of Insight vs: Ultra, I agree with Dan Kolton. Both are great, which is most right? I don't know. Both are close. Insight is much less expensive. Great. Insight uses dreaded ICs and stuff like that. Bad. Ultra has tubes. Good or bad depending upon where you are coming from. I could live with either quite happily.

Our best advice. Buy the most expensive stuff from us that you can afford.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

P.S. I suppose I could put both Ultra and Insight line stages in one preamp chassis and let you switch between them, but that would take a lot of wiring changes and the insides would look like a plate of spaghetti.

Hi Frank,

Putting both in one chassis, to much work, for the difference, although you might consider that idea for when people come by to buy your products. It would be a good way of demoing which is which without losing to much audio memory. I do appreciate the fact that you aren't saying this is better or that is worse. My God, and now you have also the T8, and the double amps for left and right. I forgot the product title for that one.

So now, that there appears to be more detail? in the Insight preamp, looks like you've gotta get the Ultra to be clearly on top again. If what I've read here is accurate, then the Ultra isn't Ultra anymore. Thanks for the info.

Ray Bronk

avahifi · « **Reply #106 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 02:50 pm »

Remember there is a significant segment of the market that just will not buy an IC based preamp under any circumstances.

And, I really do like the Ultra best in many system combinations. But it will be room and speaker dependent. The tube and hybrid units will certainly be a better choice in a hard room and/or with speakers that tend to be anything close to bright or analytical sounding.

Regards,

Frank

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #107 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 03:07 pm »

rajacat,
Euphony:Sweet voiced, musical, pleasing or sweet sound (from Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary). In the case of the Ultra, Frank and I both believe this is a distortion of what is actually on the source, but are not quite sure.

MarkD · « **Reply #108 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 04:47 pm »

I've been watching this thread looking for status on the 12AT7 upgrade for the FET Valve preamps. Any word on how that project is going? I'm just curious at this point, while I recover from the financial beat-down of tax day (I had to pay NY and the Feds), but I should be solvent fairly soon.

The chip upgrade for the Insight DAC is a definite go. My check will be in the mail soon.

turkey · « **Reply #109 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 04:50 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 14 Apr 2009, 02:50 pm

Remember there is a significant segment of the market that just will not buy an IC based preamp under any circumstances.

I just replaced all the ICs in my computer with discrete transistors. It now weighs 6000 lbs, needs it's own 10 ton CRAC unit, and fills the entire room. But I got rid of all those evil ICs, and I bet my typing looks better.

turkey · « **Reply #110 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: MarkD on 14 Apr 2009, 04:47 pm

word on how that project is going? I'm just curious at this point, while I recover from the financial beat-down of tax day (I had to pay NY and the Feds), but I should be solvent fairly soon.

You should be happy. It is far better for you to have owed them money than to get a refund. A refund means they had the use of your money and didn't pay you interest for it.

guest1632 · « **Reply #111 on:** 14 Apr 2009, 10:02 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 14 Apr 2009, 02:50 pm

Remember there is a significant segment of the market that just will not buy an IC based preamp under any circumstances.

And, I really do like the Ultra best in many system combinations. But it will be room and speaker dependent. The tube and hybrid units will certainly be a better choice in a hard room and/or with speakers that tend to be anything close to bright or analytical sounding.

Regards,

Frank

Hi Frank,

A segment that won't buy anything with IC's in it? Hmmm, they better look in todays modern TVs. Even bo back 10 years. All full of IC's. What about that DVD player or that clock radio?I realize here I'm preaching to the quire. i have nothing against the use of IC's if used properly. I would think you, Frank would know how to use them properly. Does this mod apply to your Insight amps too?

Ray

Tone Depth · « **Reply #112 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 12:02 am »

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 14 Apr 2009, 10:02 pm

Does this mod apply to your Insight amps too?

Ray
[/quote]

Hi Ray,

Check out Frank's first post in this thread. Also check out http://avahifi.com/.

guest1632 · « **Reply #113 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 09:34 am »

Quote from: Tone Depth on 15 Apr 2009, 12:02 am

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 14 Apr 2009, 10:02 pm
Does this mod apply to your Insight amps too?

Ray

Hi Ray,

Check out Frank's first post in this thread. Also check out http://avahifi.com/.
[/quote]

Thanks for the Info. Hmmm, been thinking about the Integrated. makes me really wonder now what that little Integrated amp can do after the IC's mod. Yeah, just might be a real sleeper.

Ray

avahifi · « **Reply #114 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 12:34 pm »

Actually the Insight Control Amp does not use any ICs at all, just a few ultra fast, ultra low distortion current buffers.

I will have one on display at the AK Fest May 2nd and 3rd.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

turkey · « **Reply #115 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 15 Apr 2009, 09:34 am

Thanks for the Info. Hmmm, been thinking about the Integrated. makes me really wonder now what that little Integrated amp can do after the IC's mod. Yeah, just might be a real sleeper.

I'd be more interested in seeing how it does with the double-die MOSFETs.

If Frank were to carry it around at the show and try it out in the various systems, I bet it would upstage a lot of "audiophile" equipment.

(Frank, I would not recommend trying that, for various reasons. It would probably get you banned from future shows.)

mark funk · « **Reply #116 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 09:02 pm »

Back in the old days. Frank would have one of his amps in a briefcase when they would go to the CES show.

avahifi · « **Reply #117 on:** 15 Apr 2009, 09:06 pm »

True, I did this years and years ago when the CES was in Chicago and the"outlaw" exhibits were in the Bismarck Hotel. I just had a little mos-fet in a small Budd Box in my briefcase, complete with input and output cables.

I did talk a few exhibitors to try it out, always with pretty astonishing results. I stayed away from the big name exhibitors, but there were many "start up" speaker builders there that would have liked to have kept and use the briefcase amp for the show. Unfortunately I could not do that as it was an unfinished prototype. But it sure was fun.

Regards,

Frank

guest1632 · « **Reply #118 on:** 16 Apr 2009, 03:03 am »

Quote from: turkey on 15 Apr 2009, 01:05 pm

Quote from: Ray Bronk on 15 Apr 2009, 09:34 am
Thanks for the Info. Hmmm, been thinking about the Integrated. makes me really wonder now what that little Integrated amp can do after the IC's mod. Yeah, just might be a real sleeper.

I'd be more interested in seeing how it does with the double-die MOSFETs.

If Frank were to carry it around at the show and try it out in the various systems, I bet it would upstage a lot of "audiophile" equipment.

(Frank, I would not recommend trying that, for various reasons. It would probably get you banned from future shows.)

With those new FETS in there, yeah, wouldn't be surprised if it did upstage other people's equipment. So Frank I did ask in the other thread, with the new FETs in there, does the wattage rating come up a bit? Also, now what's the difference in sound from the Integrated to say the Insight stuff? Thanks for answering my questions.

Ray Bronk

pardales · « **Reply #119 on:** 19 Apr 2009, 12:09 pm »

Received my "+" chips last week and installed them in my DAC yesterday. Installation was easy. Let the listening begin......

BTW: what to do with the chips I took out.....can anyone use them?

Announcing the "Insight+" low cost upgrade

guest1632

guest1632

guest1632

guest1632