What are the best used speakers for around 13K?

Imperial · « **Reply #40 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 09:39 am »

How about looking into speakers designed to be put up against the back wall, at least really close to it?
I could mention Sjøfn Hifi's QM10's. They are designed to sit bang up against the back wall, and they have a sound that is like Mcullinan wants out of his speakers, I think. They are not pretty... but they will do bass also like an angry bullfrog. And have a full and "big" quality to the music.
I believe the do not have a very deep soundstage, if that is required, and a more front row "seating" in the way they present
music but they are warm and dynamic like ... well nothing else with a 4" bass driver...

The reason for mentioning them is that they have a listening distance "Span" that is from 1 to 4 meters triangle-wise.
They should indeed at least fit this room facing any direction.
And... they have a blue led that tells you when they are close to clipping from the amplifiers input being higher than comfort..
Yup, a blue led will light up when you push them to hard.

Unusual for sure!! But then you are flexing the walls so...
Yeah, and they will have a massively large uniform sweetspot.
---
I don't think they are as microdynamic as a pair of Merlins, few speakers are really...
BAM? Balanced BAM? I'd spring for a BAM! Pushing this here, but seriously man, consider it!!!
QM10's can also be active I think.

Now... Active monitors wouldn't be bad either come to think of it. Could ease the use of room tunes or digital correcting or say a TACT
or a Thiel sub integrator or what have you, a Rives PARC maybe? But NOT to forget the acoustics either, these things Don't do wonders, you NEED to also use physical dampening objects in a room to ensure perfect performance.
Just getting a digital/"trick" - bandaid, won't fix it all!
Tone/Stereomojo has tested 'Salagar speakers I believe to good measure.
You have ATC active speakers and even Harbeth active models also.
(Mhm... I've got a caffeine high here and the keyboard is taking the wrap...

)
Others in this thread have mentioned active, separate amps and so on.
I have to say, that is exciting stuff! With possibilities to really "build" a perfect fit into a package or what you call it.

Imperial

doug s. · « **Reply #41 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 11:22 am »

Quote from: jon_010101 on 10 Jun 2008, 07:34 am

You could do some careful research and pick whatever was used to master some of your favorite albums. Maybe Legacy Audio or something like that

OR, you could commission some insane custom job to exactly fit your room and tastes. I'd probably do an active tri-amp WMTMW system in that price range, and then build the amps around the individual drivers.

a wmtmw in a 12x17 room may not be the best match...

ymmv,

doug s.

TF1216 · « **Reply #42 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 11:27 am »

It seems something like this might work wonderfully in the room:

http://www.selahaudio.com/id146.html

Or maybe one of the PHL designs from Jim Salk.

Maybe even cooler would be to have Rick Craig design a custom speaker for you using AudioTechnology drivers.

bpape · « **Reply #43 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 11:33 am »

Let's not go too overboard. 12x17 isn't THAT small. We're making it sound like it's a 9x10 bedroom with speakers against one wall and seating against the other. There is plenty of space for a nice setup in there. Granted, I probably wouldn't want to try MG20's or a huge line array in there....

Bryan

Imperial · « **Reply #44 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 11:47 am »

Line arrays load a room very differently and can work in small rooms as well...
Yeah ... 3m x 5.5m with a 3m ceiling...

One could calculate positions easy with these numbers and find out where a set of speakers
could be positioned, then one could calculate room nodes and first reflection points and all that.
There is software that one can buy that will do this for you. This will help to narrow down the possible selections of speakers.

There are speakers that are fullrange that WILL fit a room like this ...
I have heard Amphion XENON's and Gradient Revolution's in rooms of sort of this size.
Those can be put bang where you need to place them also, sort of without penalty to the sound (of course you will eventually find an optimum spot..)
But these aren't warm sounding speakers, that's for sure. They are just neutral, The XENON's being a tad warmer.
But you can squeeze them into very small rooms and they will still perform!!!!

Among standmount alternatives one could also think about WLM Diva (+ Diva controll maybe?) It's also warm and dynamic and lively...they say, natural sounding also I believe it has been said.

Imperial

carusoracer · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 12:35 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 9 Jun 2008, 10:48 pm

Revel Ultima Studio2. The new Revels are astounding. As are the top Ushers. Lots of dealers so auditioning either should be easy.

I have too have heard the Revel speakers. They are very nice...
Good luck with the search.

rydenfan · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 01:05 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 9 Jun 2008, 10:48 pm

Revel Ultima Studio2. The new Revels are astounding.

+1 The new line from Revel is incredible. You really need to hear these speakers.

mcullinan · « **Reply #47 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 01:19 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 10 Jun 2008, 11:33 am

Let's not go too overboard. 12x17 isn't THAT small. We're making it sound like it's a 9x10 bedroom with speakers against one wall and seating against the other. There is plenty of space for a nice setup in there. Granted, I probably wouldn't want to try MG20's or a huge line array in there....

Bryan

It isnt that small and one side of the room is totally open so it seems larger. Right now the Merlin VSM MXs are a good fit, I could see a little larger, or smaller doing the job. I bought the Merlins used too, as demos. Now that was a deal! But there is no rest for the "hmm I wonder what they sound like in my room" bug.
Mike

TomS · « **Reply #48 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 01:27 pm »

I've had my Merlins in 13x19 with no openings (perfect for them) and 13x24 with great success. Maybe you should consider upgrading them to MXe (modest cost from MX) and upgrading the SBAM to latest goodness level. Probably the only reason I haven't done it is I don't really want to ship them via freight there and back.

bpape · « **Reply #49 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Imperial on 10 Jun 2008, 11:47 am

Line arrays load a room very differently and can work in small rooms as well...
Yeah ... 3m x 5.5m with a 3m ceiling...

Imperial

Understood. However, line arrays by design require you to sit a distance back based on the length of the line. Add in pulling them from the wall a few feet and getting the seating sufficiently away from the rear wall and that MAY be difficult to accomplish.

Bryan

zmanbands · « **Reply #50 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 02:11 pm »

Visit the Klipsch and look into their new Palladium 's at $15K

PSP · « **Reply #51 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 06:34 pm »

You could do Orions (turnkey for $8200) or maybe a little more than half that if you DIY. I have had mine for 2+ years, and IMO they are profoundly good.

Peter

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Wood%20Artistry%20LL-home.htm
http://www.linkwitzlab.com

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #52 on:** 10 Jun 2008, 06:48 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 10 Jun 2008, 11:33 am

Let's not go too overboard. 12x17 isn't THAT small. We're making it sound like it's a 9x10 bedroom with speakers against one wall and seating against the other. There is plenty of space for a nice setup in there. Granted, I probably wouldn't want to try MG20's or a huge line array in there....

Bryan

Yea... but he is set up on the long wall. He is going to be sitting, 6-8ft from the speaker. Get a big one, and you are closer to the near-field transition zone.

For larger speakers I design more in the far-field due to the path-length distances on the drivers. Is it absolute? No... I know a lot of people using large speakers and sitting in the near-field. That isn't how I design though, I'd rather design the speaker so that it is used in the far-field, where the response is much more predictable. Use a smaller monitor when you are sitting closer because the transition to the far-field is closer. That would mean either a stand-mounted loudspeaker or a tower with a simple driver arrangement, either a 2-way MT or a coax (KEF).

That would be my approach....

Canyoneagle · « **Reply #53 on:** 11 Jun 2008, 01:48 pm »

What about Salk's new OB? aa

ehider · « **Reply #54 on:** 16 Jun 2008, 08:51 pm »

I also suggest the Ridgestreet Sasons (if you are looking for a speaker that images heroically and as good as anything under the $20k mark). As Marbles mentioned, the Sasons do require you to have a listening room where you can place them away from any nearby walls or corners. (When it comes to imaging abilities of most speakers though, very few image "heroically" until they are completely away from wall boundaries). If you are looking for a completely "over the top" volume capabilities or the absolute "lowest of lows" in bass capabilities, then you need to look for massive speakers with multitudes of drivers.

BTW: If you are looking for an outrageous line source (that has a sound similar to Pipedream speakers) I will be listing my personal pair of Epiphany 20/21 speakers very soon

(Pipedereams are Harry Pearson, of Absolute Sound, favorite line source and those Pipedreams cost $85k). Similarly, the Epiphanys also feature over the top dynamics along with a massive soundstage height. They are very neutral and transparent from top to bottom without any problematic issues that plague many other huge speaker systems. They also won the Editors Choice awards from Absolute Sound. My particular pair were Danny Richie's personal pair, which he designed for the Epiphany Corporation. I will also be listing the Epiphany Dual 15" subwoofer (rare). I was going to list the combination for somewhere around $12k to $15k for everything (the 20/21's MSRP cost $27,000 and the sub MSRP cost $6,500). If you make it to the Michigan area I can even let you hear both the Sasons and the Epiphanys in the same room

Bigfish · « **Reply #55 on:** 16 Jun 2008, 09:00 pm »

Richidoo is currently auditioning a pair of Usher BE 20s that The HomeTheaterDoc is trying to sell. If Rich does not buy them they may be the speaker you are seeking.

Ken

Marbles · « **Reply #56 on:** 16 Jun 2008, 09:22 pm »

When Eric stole from me

, er I mean got his pair of Sasons, we were both of the same opinion that there was so much magic in them, we only wanted the pair we heard, just in case there was any variation from speaker to speaker. The pair Eric got had IT. You know the IT.

Anyway, The Ridge Street boys said all their speakers sounded like that...yeah right. Then later they said they upgraded them and made them better. Double yeah right. Anyway, Eric goes to have a listen to the new ones and darned if he doesn't pony for the upgrades.

Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, if I had the right room, they would be mine. Eric has the best room I've ever been in for audio and they are just special. The Salks are a great value, but I've never heard a better speaker than the Sason's. Just in case anyone's interested, I had my Salk HT3's in Erics room to compare the two speakers.

Imperial · « **Reply #57 on:** 17 Jun 2008, 10:03 am »

I believe the Sasons are designed to be placed a third or as close as a fifth from the back walls - of the room depth.
I guess that these speakers like any larger standmounter like some air behind them to sound their best.

Something that I believe goes amiss among audiophiles when they work with their new speakers during set up is that one
should try with a small number of chairs as well!!! That is, try a small chair, a medium, a large one (you sit higher obviously with increasing chair size...), and top it of with a bar stool - eh...

But still, it will aid and abate to the process!

In a smaller room such as this, achieving the correct ear height during set up can be of benefit!! If getting good sound means
that you may have to sit on a cushion... or get a bar stool... so be it right? If it sounds great enough one will soon enough find a comfortable chair that also pleases the Misses I guess!

I see that the Sason stand can also be built to fit the room, IE the stand Height.. Not bad!

I had the impression over a few years now that a pair of Sasons like to be somewhat into the room to sound their best, or... to
achieve a "rock solid" image as it is...

Never heard this speaker but I think they look beautiful! With the Diamond look and all!
I used to live next to a stone cutting facility where they made just about anything of granite and other types of stone.
Polished stone is a beautiful thing to behold!!! Nero Impala, Nero assoluto, black galaxy, Labrador Antique - (From Sirevaag in Norway)... and so on (I like black...)

Imperial

mcullinan · « **Reply #58 on:** 17 Jun 2008, 01:23 pm »

Nice looking speaker and from all the reviews it sounds like an awesome deal for $8500. MAybe someone has them in the NY area???
Mike

Marbles · « **Reply #59 on:** 17 Jun 2008, 01:33 pm »

Sason's, they do have some issues..

They play low enough (frequency) for me, some others might want a sub to go with them.
38Hz - 20kHz +/- 2dB

They do not have a matching center or surrounds if used in a dual 2 channel/HT system

They liked to be pulled out into the room, and the further out you pull them, the deeper the soundstage/imaging. In Eric's room, the soundstage/imaging is around 14' deep and holographic.

http://home.comcast.net/~ridgestreetaudio/HOME.html