[mcullinan]

Ure mad man.. INSANE! I actually backup my backups too, and when BluRay drives become popular with cheap media, I will take all those back ups and backup them to 1 or 2 Bluray disks.
MIke
ARE YOU CRAAZY!!!
huh~!
Are you!


YOU ARE FLICKIN FLUTZ ARENT YA!

[nathanm]

WAIT!  Hang on folks, do we even know for certain where and when Double Ugly's system is freezing?  I'd like to know more information.  It could be something very simple.  Don't be too quick to throw in the towel (reinstall), you could end up making the problem worse.  Especially if you're not familiar with the system. (no offense DU!)

When exactly is it freezing up during the boot process?  If the main menu bar does not appear and you get the beachball then it could possibly be a bad font.  If not, it could be a dozen different things.  What applications are loading during boot for instance.  Is just one app freezing or is everything frozen? 

[mcullinan]

We zapped his font cache already. That usually solves the font issues. It happens when he has Mail and Safari open. I was thinking either fonts or his network is hanging which will freeze everything trying to access the cyber universalness.
Mike

[Wind Chaser]

You don't have a single backup? If nothing else, burn your photos to CDs or DVDs. From the problems you're describing you could be on the verge of a catastrophic failure, and you should count your blessings each time the machine boots up normally after a lock up. You're living on borrowed time, I tell you! Get an external HD today!

Catastrophic failure, eh?  Wow, in all these years I've never backed up anything or had a HD fail.  I don't believe in back ups or condoms for that matter.  Just not the worrying kind.

[nathanm]

I hear ya Wind Chaser, but it just takes that ONE time when you lose something you care about, though.  I lost my Windows machine in such a manner.  I didn't really lose any files, but the thing just wouldn't boot anymore, which is almost as depressing.  That's why Time Machine intrigues me, kind of like a global Undo.  Whether or not it works that seamlessly remains to be seen.  I am not sure if you get a fully bootable disc or if it just performs incremental backups, which isn't anything new.

[Crimson]

Whether or not it works that seamlessly remains to be seen.  I am not sure if you get a fully bootable disc or if it just performs incremental backups, which isn't anything new.

It is quite seamless in backing up and restoring files. It does not create a bootable backup.

I hear ya Wind Chaser, but it just takes that ONE time when you lose something you care about, though.

Once bitten, thrice shy.

[nathanm]

Really?  Then "feh" to Time Machine!  You can do that now with Deja Vu.  I guess that means that Carbon Copy Cloner is the only surefire way to ensure a minimum-hassle downtime.  Losing your songs, documents and pictures etc. is catastrophic yes, but just as maddening is having to spend hours reinstalling and reconfiguring your system and applications..  That's like someone coming in a knocking down all the dominos you spent months setting up on the gym floor.

[Double Ugly]

WAIT!  Hang on folks, do we even know for certain where and when Double Ugly's system is freezing?  I'd like to know more information.  It could be something very simple.  Don't be too quick to throw in the towel (reinstall), you could end up making the problem worse.  Especially if you're not familiar with the system. (no offense DU!)

None taken whatsoever.  Having come from an OS I did know fairly well, I'm fully at terms with the fact I'm a noob of the highest order.

When exactly is it freezing up during the boot process?  If the main menu bar does not appear and you get the beachball then it could possibly be a bad font.  If not, it could be a dozen different things.  What applications are loading during boot for instance.  Is just one app freezing or is everything frozen? 

It doesn't freeze during boot.  It's while I'm surfing (via Firefox) and (as Mike said) Mail is open.  I don't know what (if anything) those two have in common with the freezes, but they're the programs open with it happens.

I don't frequently use any other programs and Mail is open *all* the time, so I'm not confident those particular programs being open when it happens is an "ah HA!" kinda thing.

Since I purchased an iPhone a couple months back, I guess now I should say iTunes is usually open, too.  But the freeze-ups began before the iPhone's arrival, so again, I'm not sure of the relevance.

Best I can tell, virtually everything freezes.  I say "virtually" because I can still move the cursor (beach ball, whirligig, pinwheel, whatever), but aside from maybe being able to open the CD tray (hasn't happened since I thought about trying it), I can't get anything to work.  No shortcut keys, no opening/closing programs, minimizing or maximizing open windows, the pull-down menu... nothing.

That's not to say I haven't missed something, but given my inability to make any of the aforementioned work, I can't imagine what it'd be.

[Bemopti123]

DU, I really feel it for you.  Although I have 2 Macs, I did not have the "luck" to upgrade to Leopard yet...run Panther in my old Mac Mini G4 and run Tiger in my 12" PowerBook G4.  If I was in your shoes, I would attempt to go back to Tiger and escape from all these problems you have been having.  If you had the original discs, I am sure you could do that.  Afterwards, I would simply wait for Leopard to stabilize some more. 

I highly suspect the newer OS is the main culprit in this entire ordeal.  Of course, it is not as if I have never gotten spinning balls of death while I do something in Panther or Tiger, but it unusually happens only when I access a certain page in Firefox...which I think is badly coded and therefore causing the unknown crashes.  It has not happened to me for a while do. 

Sometimes, it also happens to me when I think that the memory or the main processor has become fully overloaded...and if I do not do much and let time pass, the process takes place and the spinning ball is gone. 

CRIMSON, so have you had any experiences linking the spinning balls of death with an impending HD crash?  Chime me in!

[PhilNYC]

Catastrophic failure, eh?  Wow, in all these years I've never backed up anything or had a HD fail.  I don't believe in back ups or condoms for that matter.  Just not the worrying kind.

The irony for me is that the only catastrophic failures I've had have been my backup hard-drives dying...

[Double Ugly]

DU, I really feel it for you.  Although I have 2 Macs, I did not have the "luck" to upgrade to Leopard yet...run Panther in my old Mac Mini G4 and run Tiger in my 12" PowerBook G4.  If I was in your shoes, I would attempt to go back to Tiger and escape from all these problems you have been having.  If you had the original discs, I am sure you could do that.  Afterwards, I would simply wait for Leopard to stabilize some more. 

Thanks, B, but being far more stubborn than intellectual (or common-sensical for that matter), I think I'm going to take it as far as I can before backtracking.

Getting the TC will certainly help in that regard.  I'm afraid to delve too deeply into the available options before having a back-up on hand.

I highly suspect the newer OS is the main culprit in this entire ordeal.  Of course, it is not as if I have never gotten spinning balls of death while I do something in Panther or Tiger, but it unusually happens only when I access a certain page in Firefox...which I think is badly coded and therefore causing the unknown crashes.  It has not happened to me for a while do. 

Sometimes, it also happens to me when I think that the memory or the main processor has become fully overloaded...and if I do not do much and let time pass, the process takes place and the spinning ball is gone. 

I do wonder if the root cause is a site I'm either currently accessing or have recently visited.  I'm pretty set in my browsing patterns, and don't frequent many sites (a couple of audio and sports sites comprise 90+ % of my on-line experience).

I can't imagine what would overload the processing power and memory I have on hand.  Unless something is physically wrong, I think the problem lies with the OS or an unfortunate Firefox/website encounter.

Then again, it hasn't happened since I nuked the fonts (just jinxed myself, huh).  I'd never heard of nuking fonts until this thread, but I guess it's a preventative maintenance thing?  Can someone explain in layman's terms what it is and why I need to do it? 

I'd appreciate knowing how often to run the app, too, otherwise I'll be nuking several times a day. 

[Robert57]

DU, I'm horrified to hear of your continuing Leopard problems. Since the freezes seem to occur mainly during browsing, have you tried using Safari instead of Firefox as your primary browser? Safari was just upgraded with better HTML support. At least this might be a way to narrow down the problem.

btw, I am excited to read about the newly updated "N" Airport Express ($ 99). Would this not be the perfect way to bridge/extend the range of a wifi network with an Airport Extreme/ Time Capsule base station for a wireless Squeeze network?

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/18/new-html-and-css-features-in-safari-3-1/

Rob

[Double Ugly]

Then again, it hasn't happened since I nuked the fonts (just jinxed myself, huh).

Jinxed, indeed.  Within 30 minutes of my last post, it happened again. 

Guess the fonts aren't to blame after all. 

On a positive note, I confirmed the CD drawer will open and close... once.  Despite repeated attempts, I couldn't get it to move after the initial actuations.

I waited for over an hour to see if whatever caused the problem would correct itself, but I had to break out ol' reliable (the one-finger salute) to make it functional again.

DU, I'm horrified to hear of your continuing Leopard problems. Since the freezes seem to occur mainly during browsing, have you tried using Safari instead of Firefox as your primary browser? Safari was just upgraded with better HTML support. At least this might be a way to narrow down the problem.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/18/new-html-and-css-features-in-safari-3-1/

No, I've not made a genuine effort to get acquainted with Safari, Robert.  I dabbled with it the first few days after the Mac arrived, but I had become so accustomed to the multitude of features and functionality of Firefox that I loaded the Mac version within days.

Seems like it giving it another shot may be the next logical step though, huh. 

btw, I am excited to read about the newly updated "N" Airport Express ($ 99). Would this not be the perfect way to bridge/extend the range of a wifi network with an Airport Extreme/ Time Capsule base station for a wireless Squeeze network?

Although my current router is on another floor at the other end of the house, signal strength at the Transporter is strong, and connectivity issues with other wireless devices has been excellent.  I'm sure it'd be of tremendous value in a network wherein that's not the case, but I'm not sure what I'd have to gain.

[Double Ugly]

So that's it? 

Try using Safari (switched over yesterday), maybe try this (Onyx) or that (DiskWarrior) program, but if the problem persists, do a clean install?  Nothing more? 

Nathan?  You said I shouldn't jump to re-install (I agree), so I answered the laundry list of questions.  Anything to add in response?

Crimson?  You've been all but silent since a couple gave you some guff for the rant.  Have you nothing else to offer regarding the problem I'm having?

Anyone know how I might go about determining the culprit, perhaps via logs or whatever means exists within the Mac OS?

The input re: getting a back-up mechanism in place was good and is in the works, and I'm grateful for the program recommendations, but I don't know exactly what I'm supposed to do with them.

I would appreciate your input, fellas.  You know far more than I about what's happening, and how to go about fixing it. 

[avta]

DU:
Mac discussion forums are another place to get help. They are accessed from the Support link on the Apple home page.

[Crimson]

Ok, I'm out of hiding. All of the advice given here is great. I was reluctant to mention this because I have a different issue, but the only program I've consistently had problems with since installing Leopard is.......................Firefox. I don't get the SBBOD like you do, though. I never turn my machines off and over time Firefox (which is always open, as is Mail) seems to go into a coma: menus drop down, links highlight, but clicking does nothing and the only way out is to Force Quit. I've done all of the suggestions mentioned here (nuking fonts, Disk Warrior etc), but to this day it still happens, usually every 4-5 days and I still have no idea why other than a compatibility issue with Leopard. I eagerly load each new update to Firefox, but I still have the same problem. You may want to try and use Safari for a week or two and see if the issue goes away. I have a gut feeling Firefox is your culprit here.

Regarding backups, I use Apple's Backup utility for incremental backups to an array of off-net FW drives for music and photos which are all located on NAS drives, and Time Machine to a Time Capsule for for everything on the machines themselves. Carbon Copy is a great utility also and provides for bootable backups.

[Double Ugly]

DU:
Mac discussion forums are another place to get help. They are accessed from the Support link on the Apple home page.

Thanks, avta.

I checked there before beginning this thread, but I didn't see mention of issues closely resembling what I've experienced.  Maybe I'll check back again.

In the meantime, since we have a circle here and members with loads of OSX experience, I figured I'd give it a shot.  The initial response was exceptional, but recommendations sort of petered-out after a couple of slightly OT posts.  I've hope it can be resurrected. 

Ok, I'm out of hiding. All of the advice given here is great. I was reluctant to mention this because I have a different issue, but the only program I've consistently had problems with since installing Leopard is.......................Firefox. I don't get the SBBOD like you do, though. I never turn my machines off and over time Firefox (which is always open, as is Mail) seems to go into a coma: menus drop down, links highlight, but clicking does nothing and the only way out is to Force Quit. I've done all of the suggestions mentioned here (nuking fonts, Disk Warrior etc), but to this day it still happens, usually every 4-5 days and I still have no idea why other than a compatibility issue with Leopard. I eagerly load each new update to Firefox, but I still have the same problem. You may want to try and use Safari for a week or two and see if the issue goes away. I have a gut feeling Firefox is your culprit here.

Regarding backups, I use Apple's Backup utility for incremental backups to an array of off-net FW drives for music and photos which are all located on NAS drives, and Time Machine to a Time Capsule for for everything on the machines themselves. Carbon Copy is a great utility also and provides for bootable backups.

*THAT'S* what I'm looking for! 

I think you're right, thus the reason I'm writing this via Safari today.  I miss some of the features and the speed of Firefox (especially with AudioCircle, it seems), but if by using it I eliminate the SBBOD (nice acronym! ), I'm all for it.

So far, so good, but it's only been 12 hours.  Reaching the 36-48 hour points without interruption will be more telling.

I leave my computer on 24/7, too.  It's my music server, but I'd probably leave it on even if it weren't. 

Your back-up regime is far beyond anything I'll have for a while.  I need to figure out how to make a bootable disc with DiskWarrior, then use the TC (when it finally gets here ) to backup my computer.  Once I'm satisfied everything is working properly, I'll probably look into a secondary backup that mirrors the primary (TC).  Hopefully you'll still be around to help me sort that out.

Thanks again, Crimson.

[nathanm]

Hmmm…well, here's a few things to try: Bring up the Activity Monitor and see what processes are running.  There may be one or two things that are eating up CPU power.  If just certain sites are causing problems try loading them with different browsers.  Check to see if Cookies are possibly blocked.  Try deleting the misbehaving application's preference file.  Check the Network setting, if you are using a proxy server those settings should also be put into the browser.  Check for updates for both your apps and system-wide.  Check your Login Items under Accounts to see if anything weird is loading during boot.  Try creating a new user account and see if the same issues occur.

[Double Ugly]

Hmmm…well, here's a few things to try: Bring up the Activity Monitor and see what processes are running.  There may be one or two things that are eating up CPU power.  If just certain sites are causing problems try loading them with different browsers.  Check to see if Cookies are possibly blocked.  Try deleting the misbehaving application's preference file.  Check the Network setting, if you are using a proxy server those settings should also be put into the browser.  Check for updates for both your apps and system-wide.  Check your Login Items under Accounts to see if anything weird is loading during boot.  Try creating a new user account and see if the same issues occur.

Thanks, Nathan.  Some of the recommendations are easy enough (updates, browser settings, different login) and others are beyond my understanding (how do I ID the misbehaving application?  And I can't identify "weird" during boot if I don't know what's normal), but I'll give the ones I understand a shot if the problem persists.

The system and all frequently used programs are up to date, though, and I'm making progress with getting the others updated, too.

[Crimson]

So far so good with Safari? No SBBOD?