[Double Ugly]

I can still move the mouse, but I can neither close nor open any programs.  The only way I've found to "fix" it so far is to give it the finger (hold the power button till it shuts down).

I'm still a Mac noob (converted less than 2 years ago), and I don't have the foggiest about what's happening or why.  There's probably a log somewhere, but it's of no use unless someone can decipher it for me.

Things in common with each freeze-up - having both Mail and Firefox open are the only constants I can think of.  It happened again just a few minutes ago, and they were the only programs I had opened.

The machine never locked up in any way, shape, form or fashion prior to upgrading to Leopard.  Aside from the occasional freeze-ups, all seems well. 

Help. 

[mcullinan]

Perhaps your network (cable modem) is freezing up, which may cause the programs to hang. You may also have a font issue. Try this: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/21536/fontnuke Im not so sure its a font issue, but.. I dont think it can hurt. Run permission repair also.
Mike

[Double Ugly]

Perhaps your network (cable modem) is freezing up, which may cause the programs to hang.

Unless I don't understand the network problem you're describing, I don't think the cable modem (or the network as a whole) is the problem.
The computer itself is freezing up (except for the mouse  ), not the ability to navigate the web.  I could probably surf the web if I could get any of the surfing programs to work. 

Additionally, it makes little sense to me that it'd work perfectly for over a year, and then suddenly begin freezing up just after I load Leopard.

You may also have a font issue. Try this: http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/21536/fontnuke Im not so sure its a font issue, but.. I dont think it can hurt. Run permission repair also.

I ran it.  I get seriously antsy running programs like this when I don't have any idea what they're doing - or what *I'm* doing - but it's done.

It found 25 cache files - some relatively small, some pretty large - and I nuked 'em.  I didn't notice the permission repair box till after I'd nuked the files twice, so I did it a third time.  Not sure what that's supposed to fix either, but hopefully it'll keep the spinning pinwheel/beach ball thingy at bay.

Thanks for your help, Mike.  I should know whether or not it worked within the next few days.

[Woodsea]

Leopard is not very stable.  I am taking my lappy to America next wednesday so they 'fix' all my problems.  Tiger was much more stable for me.  I get the pin wheel, plus the non-wakey screen, dropped connections from my remote airport express, inability to Bootcamp, Firefox and Adobe crashing.  Plus, I have battery issues (2nd one too) and of course heat concerns, that I had before with Tiger. 

[mcullinan]

Permissions repair is found in the disk utility app in the Utilities folder. Open disk utility and run repair permissions there. I know there are a few updates to airport if you are using wifi. You may want to update leapord too.
Mike

[drphoto]

Hey Double, do you ever try 'Force Quit' of the app when this happens?  'Opt' + 'Cmd' + 'esc' brings up a box to quit which ever app is giving you trouble.

I don't know specifically what's causing your problem though. I've heard a lot of carping over Leopard. I still run 10.4.9

[Double Ugly]

Permissions repair is found in the disk utility app in the Utilities folder. Open disk utility and run repair permissions there.

I'll check into that when I get back. 

I thought you were talking about the "Repair Permissions" box I checked when I ran FontNuke the 3^rd time.

I know there are a few updates to airport if you are using wifi.

I am using the wireless functionality of my router (a Belkin Pre-N, soon to be a Time Capsule), but where do I find required updates which aren't included in the "Software Update" function?

You may want to update leapord too.

Same question... in addition to those I've already applied?  If so, where do I find them?

Hey Double, do you ever try 'Force Quit' of the app when this happens?  'Opt' + 'Cmd' + 'esc' brings up a box to quit which ever app is giving you trouble.

Doesn't work.  Again, aside from being able to move the mouse, I lose all functionality.  None of the shortcut keys work, and I can't open, close, minimize or expand any of the programs on my computer.  The computer just sits there staring back at me through its multi-colored whirlygig/pinwheel/beachball eyeball of death. 

 

I can move the cursor (whirlygig/pinwheel/beachball/whatever) around, but there is no other funcionality.

Actually, I take that back.  I *think* I might be able to open the CD drawer, but I'm not sure.  If it's important, I'll check when I get back to the house.

[flatmap]

In cases (rare) when I've seen the pinwheel, I've been able to move the cursor over the dock and work in other applications -- or in the Finder. 

Once over the dock, I am able to select Applications, then the subfolder Utilities, and open the "Activities Monitor."  That tells me what application is hung and I can select it and force quit.

[Crimson]

Yes, repair disc permissions in Disc Utility.

As far as updates are concerned, Software Update takes care of all required updates depending on what OS version and applciations you are running. For a listing of all updates, you can check http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/.

[Double Ugly]

To be clear, I said -

... but where do I find required updates which aren't included in the "Software Update" function?

and -

Same question... in addition to those I've already applied?  If so, where do I find them?

... to connote all updates available via "Software Update" as of this morning have been applied.  I should've made that clear in the first post, but not being a tech support kinda guy, I assumed (*hate* when I do that!) no one would post about problems when updates to mitigate or eliminate said problems are readily available.

Should've known better, and for that I apologize.

In cases (rare) when I've seen the pinwheel, I've been able to move the cursor over the dock and work in other applications -- or in the Finder. 

Once over the dock, I am able to select Applications, then the subfolder Utilities, and open the "Activities Monitor."  That tells me what application is hung and I can select it and force quit.

I know what you're talking about, and I can move the pinwheel over them, but I can't select them.  When the machine is working properly, the application name will appear if you pause over the icon, but that doesn't happen with the issue I'm having.

I wish it did; I'd *LOVE* to know the culprit.   

FWIW, I've also had the rare occasion to exercise the "Force Quit" option, but it isn't available when this problem raises its ugly noggin. 

Yes, repair disc permissions in Disc Utility.

As far as updates are concerned, Software Update takes care of all required updates depending on what OS version and applciations you are running. For a listing of all updates, you can check http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/.

Then my machine is up to date as of today. 

Speaking of which, this is my computer:

• Platform:  Mac Pro
• Operating System:  OSX 10.5.2 (Leopard) with all updates as of 20 March
• Processors:  two (2) 3-GHz Dual-Core Xeon processors
• RAM:  4 GB
• HDDs:  two (2) 500 GB internal hard drives.
• Network Device:  Belkin Pre-N router
• Wireless Devices:  one (1) Slim Devices Transporter & one (1) Slim Devices SqueezeBox 2

The computer came with Tiger installed.  I upgraded to Leopard myself and everything seemed to go well, but I've read where some have experienced issues until they performed a clean install 

I don't know how to do a clean install, but I may need to learn if the problem persists.

[mcullinan]

Sweet System Dude!
M

[Crimson]

Very Nice system!

The computer came with Tiger installed.  I upgraded to Leopard myself and everything seemed to go well, but I've read where some have experienced issues until they performed a clean install

If you did the upgrade, you can also do a clean install! After booting from the Leopard disc, at some point (I don't remember exactly when) an 'Options' button is available. Clicking on it will you give you three installation options: An upgrade (default), Backup existing OS without deleting, and Clean Install (which will wipe your disc clean before installing). It's as simple as that. One thing to remember, though, is to have the other discs available that came with your machine as they are the means to reinstall certain preinstalled applications (iLife etc).

[drphoto]

Yeah, you can get problems going the upgrade route without doing clean install, or at least 'archive and install'.

Been there, done that. 

[flatmap]

Agree that "archive and install" is a good thing to try.  I know it's a bit inconvenient as you  have preferences, passwords, and whatnot all set up.  However, since you are having regular trouble, a clean install is desirable. 

Also -- sorry if you've already said this -- have you run a validate and repair with Disk Utility?  You may have to boot off another disk to do this one.

[drphoto]

A good disk utility is DiskWarrior, it can fix stuff the Apple disk utility can't.  Highly recommended.

[avta]

DU:
Before reinstalling software you might try a program called Onyx if you haven't already. It can be downloaded free from Version Tracker or Cnet sites. After you run the initial screens try Automation. It will do lots of things. I've found it very helpful.

[Double Ugly]

Very Nice system!

Thanks.

If you did the upgrade, you can also do a clean install! After booting from the Leopard disc, at some point (I don't remember exactly when) an 'Options' button is available. Clicking on it will you give you three installation options: An upgrade (default), Backup existing OS without deleting, and Clean Install (which will wipe your disc clean before installing). It's as simple as that. One thing to remember, though, is to have the other discs available that came with your machine as they are the means to reinstall certain preinstalled applications (iLife etc).

Ah, but there's the rub.

Yes, I can do a clean install, but having no back-up capability at present, I don't have the slightest idea about how to do a clean install without losing the ripped files from hundreds of CDs and the thousands of photos I've taken.  Sure, I can reload all the programs I've purchased (pain though it may be), but the music would be a *HUGE* pain, and the photos are irreplaceable. 

I'm sure there's a way, but until I have a manner of backing up the aforementioned files, I'd rather have to give the system the one-finger salute every day than re-accomplish the hundreds of man hours spent ripping CDs and the losing the photos I can't replace.

Agree that "archive and install" is a good thing to try.  I know it's a bit inconvenient as you  have preferences, passwords, and whatnot all set up.  However, since you are having regular trouble, a clean install is desirable. 

Also -- sorry if you've already said this -- have you run a validate and repair with Disk Utility?  You may have to boot off another disk to do this one.

You're right; losing all the preferences, passwords, etc. would suck.  Nevertheless, if it turns out to be the only way I can resolve the problem, I may have no alternative.

Is "archive and install" an option when I load the Leopard install disc?  If so, will the "archive" aspect live up to it's name and save the music and photos scattered across both hard drives?

An no, I haven't validated or repaired since loading Leopard.  I'll take a look at that today or later this evening.

Despite appearances to the contrary (and they are compelling ), I'm actually not a complete computer idiot (I have a 20+ year old computer science degree 'round here somewhere), but I feel like one with this machine.  It's all so different from what I've used all but the last year-and-a-half of my life.

All of which is to say, I don't know how to make a disc from which to boot. 

But I'm not an idiot!!!  (riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight )

A good disk utility is DiskWarrior, it can fix stuff the Apple disk utility can't.  Highly recommended.

I own DiskWarrior, but last I heard, it still wasn't compatible with Leopard.  I finally gave up trying to update (it took forever to mount and unmount) and removed it from my dock.

Has that changed?

DU:
Before reinstalling software you might try a program called Onyx if you haven't already. It can be downloaded free from Version Tracker or Cnet sites. After you run the initial screens try Automation. It will do lots of things. I've found it very helpful.

Thanks, avta... I'll look into it later today.

The first few write-ups I saw on MacUpdate indicated there are problems with Leopard; is it true, or did I not understand their comments?  The last thing I need right now is another software program that doesn't work and play well with Leopard.

[jaywills]

"Is "archive and install" an option when I load the Leopard install disc?  If so, will the "archive" aspect live up to it's name and save the music and photos scattered across both hard drives?"

It has always worked just fine for me in upgrading from Jaguar>Panther>Tiger>Leopard.

"I own DiskWarrior, but last I heard, it still wasn't compatible with Leopard."

There's a Leopard-compatable update (4.1) available on the DW site.  Free, if you already own 4.0.  4.x is waaaay faster than previous iterations.

"The first few write-ups I saw on MacUpdate indicated there are problems with Leopard; is it true, or did I not understand their comments?  The last thing I need right now is another software program that doesn't work and play well with Leopard."

The problems, generally, have been largely cured with the latest release (10.5.1, IIRC--I'm at work on a PC).  That said, for my G4 mini that I use solely as a music server, I prefer Tiger (last iteration), but no real problems with Leopard on my G5 dual.

Where I've noticed a spinning ball problem is in connection with kernel panics.  Those should show up in the log file (upper right-hand corner of the disc-repair pane) once you regain control over your machine.

Good luck, they're wonderful machines.  Cordially,

[Crimson]

DU,

Excuse me for asking, but WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? 

You don't have a single backup? If nothing else, burn your photos to CDs or DVDs. From the problems you're describing you could be on the verge of a catastrophic failure, and you should count your blessings each time the machine boots up normally after a lock up. You're living on borrowed time, I tell you! Get an external HD today!

Whew, sorry about the rant but to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I backup my backups. 

[Double Ugly]

DU,

Excuse me for asking, but WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? 

You don't have a single backup? If nothing else, burn your photos to CDs or DVDs. From the problems you're describing you could be on the verge of a catastrophic failure, and you should count your blessings each time the machine boots up normally after a lock up. You're living on borrowed time, I tell you! Get an external HD today!

Whew, sorry about the rant but to give you an idea of where I'm coming from, I backup my backups. 

I ordered a TC a week ago tomorrow, and it shipped today (thanks for the delay, Apple/Mac )

I know I should have been backing up all along, but I didn't.  I know not having a back-up is bad, thus the purchase of the TC.  With it enroute, I'm not inclined to go out tonight and spend a few more hundred dollars on an external drive I'll have no need for in just a few days.

If the computer crashes in the interim, it crashes; lesson learned.  Given the eminent arrival of the TC, I'll take my chances.