[Summer]

  Have to agree with a few of the legends in the last 50 years of audio, Gordon Gow, former President of McIntosh Laboratories and Roger Russell, former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh Laboratory Inc for 25 years, who holds a degree in Electrical Engineering and Joe Perfino, former Vice President of Sales for McIntosh Laboratory Inc. who also holds a Degree in Electrical Engineering.  Joe runs Tributaries Cables, based on science, not wild claims. Honest and refreshing in this segment today.  

 from: http://www.roger-russell.com

[Admin note: Large amount of text copied from other website deleted as per publically posted and advertised posting guidelines. Polite request was made to Summer, who responded with a lecture on the doctrine of fair use and did shit.]

[yooper]

Summer,

First, welcome to the forum.

I guess I'm not sure the reason behind you posting this article.  Perhaps your looking for a friendly debate? Or perhaps you are looking to "stir the pot"?

Your first post mentioned essentially the same thing, you believe spending money on better cables is a waste.  All of here are aware of the fact that some folks believe, and some don't believe cables make a difference. 

Rather than copying and pasting someone else's thoughts, would you care to share your personal experiences?

Mark

[WGH]

That is good to hear that the type of wire makes no difference.  The layout of my small house makes it easier to put the equipment in an adjoining room and have long speaker runs of 30'. Since I can't afford the insanely expensive stuff I use a run of Kimber 4VS and 14AWG oxygen-free copper speaker cable from MonoPrice, http://www.monoprice.com/home/, for each speaker. The Kimber by itself limits the bass, the 14 gauge by itself rolls off the highs, together I get the full range. All my friends think I am delusional anyway.

[Summer]

My personal thoughts are listed before the quotation and reference "I happen to agree..." (maybe you did not see the quote line), the quotation and reference is simply from individuals with some education and long audio industry experience regarding the issue. Possibly your not familiar with the McIntosh name or these thought leaders in the industry?  I am not sure what you mean by "All of here are aware...”?  Are you speaking for the whole forum board?  How are you able to surmise that? I have had personal contact with Roger Russell and Joe Perfino who is now the President of Tributaries Cable, this is my personal experience.  If I were stating that higher priced cable is a waste, why would I be referencing a cable manufacturer?  My experience with this is what I stated; here is a cable company that is based on science, not wild claims.  Do not take a posting as a threat, debate or stirring the pot, try to have an open mind and allow others to post without condemning them within minutes.  You earn your money, I am not trying to spend it. I am not looking for a date or someone to go fishing with either, if you want to kick me out of your board, since you seem to speak for all, no problem. 

[JohnR]

Summer, would you please review the posting guidelines, especially the part that says

Site Admin would like you to follow the following:

    * Don't copy large amounts of text from other websites, just post a link! This is not just a copyright issue but also saves putting unnecessary load on our database and backup system.

Here is the link to the whole thing:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37305.0

Thanks...

[Big Red Machine]

I will soon have available 20 foot runs of single ended MAS Signature Hybrid speaker cable. 10 gauge .9999 copper wound around a teflon coated solid silver core. Terminated with swappable spades and bananas.

I used Canare 4S11 previously, and the MAS is more refined (for those who can discern a difference...I might have been kidding myself  ).

Send me a PM if interested.

I'll be posting a listing in The Trading Post circle when they are officially available.

email sent, very interesting

[aod]

 pls excuse typos

Wires do make a difference.
and there is a real world reason for this.
It is a combination of capacitance, inductance, resistance & material.
And very importantly, the SURFACE finish of the wire.

Most of the signal travels on the surface. So, for a given frequency range, a specific gauge should suffice. No need to go ultra thick python size cables. There is a way to do the calculations but that is beyond my expertise.

The smoother the surface, the better the transmission. So, of you use a manageable gauge wire, try polishing and then lacquering the surface (to prevent oxidation) irrespective of the material. Although it is a known fact that silver oxide is a very good conductor, oxidation roughens/pits the surface and this will affect the transmission.

I believe that cryogenically treating wire is beneficial too. 
When the metal cools, the metal shrinks, this forces the crystals to be forced hard against one another. This improves the crystal to crystal contact. It also helps force out the impurities between the crystals. I don't really know but the crystals may even fuse due to the compaction. In any case, the intimate contact helps with signal transmission.

I would guess that annealing prior to cryogenically treating the material and then polishing the surface would be the ultimate treatment of a cable to enhance signal transmission as annealing minimises the number of crystals, cryogenically treating the cable compacts the crystals together and squeezes out impurities and polishing minimises the number of jumps the voltage (signal) has to make.

Then there is a combination of LCR. Now this is component dependent. I feel  manufacturers should specify the correct cables and the correct length to use as they are in the position to optimise this aspect. Naim do this and kudos to them. Letting buyers blow wads on cash in trying to find the optimum cable is not nice. Designers use specific wires with specific lengths when they voice equipment. They should not be afraid to advise buyers of what they used. This takes the guess work out of the equation.

If the buyer feels that they wish to try something else, then that is their prerogative.

Phew!
Simple no? 

Jag

[Steve Eddy]

Most of the signal travels on the surface.

No.

se

[mfsoa]

OK, troll feeding time...
Summer,
I too do not see the reason for your post unless it is simply an advert for Tributaries cable.

And yet, if what you say is true, there should be no reason for Tributaries to exist.

After reading the Tributaries site I do see the many ways they differentiate themselves from those evil people that sell audio cables:

"our products are only based on high quality tried and tested materials and on scientific principles" Ahhh, I see. Those other cable companies that use these mysterious materials (copper, silver, teflon, PVC) don't base their cables on scientific principles.

"bring discernable improvement to any audio or video system by using advanced methods..."  But wait, I thought you said this was not possible with wire. I guess the competitors' methods aren't advanced enough to make a difference.

Or maybe it's the radical way they design cables by considering the "...choice of conductors, choice of connectors, impedance stability, cable flexibility, testing..."  Damn, the cat's outta the bag now - Other mfgs are surely going to start the consider their choices of conductors and connectors now, and they may even start to test their cables, surely revolutionizing the entire industry!! (Although as you say this makes no difference in the sound. Hmmmmm...)

Or maybe the nylon mesh which "gives the cable an elegant look to compliment your equipment"  Now that's surely worth spending extra on, since the other aspects of the cable are irrelevant to their performance.

Or is it the time savings you get when doing digital video editing since the Tributaries coax "ensures a fast lock-on to the digital data stream." Jeez what am I going to do with all that extra time, lemme see... 

Or the way their biwire speaker cable "...achieves a sonic advantage resulting in greater high frequency detail and an improved sound stage." Ooops, forgot that wasn't possible. My bad.

OK, I'll stop now.

Let me state that I have absolutely no issue at all with Tributaries cable! (Ironically I was just given a demo pr of spkr cable to try out just yesterday by a dealer after never hearing of the company!) They have a really good web site and they appear to make a quality product.

But isn't it kinda weird that they invoke Gordon Gow's name, and that "The company's philosophical inspiration was the late Gordon J. Gow..." when it is GJG himself that you claim to be the cable myth-buster? 

Maybe I see the intent of your post now - It's sort of an "Emperor's New Clothes" thing where the entire premise of your post (GJG has proven that cables make no difference and that there is a company called Tributaries Cables that claims their inspiration for existing to the same GJG) is so totally contradictory that you wanted to see if we'd notice.

I did.

[macrojack]

mfsoa - You have convinced me to boycott Tributaries cables. I feel you are correct in your belief that this is yet another shill pretending to be simply the bearer of good news.

I can't even say, "Nice try" because it wasn't. It was a clumsy, misplaced invasion by someone whose name we don't know even though there is a good chance we know him by some other smilin name.

Throw the bum out. Only if these things completely backfire, will they stop. If shilling like this creates a negative sales prospect for the company in question, the shill will be discouraged by the fact that his chances were better without such an overture.

[Big Red Machine]

[/quote]

None received. ???

Maybe send a PM instead...


[/quote]

Silly me, I thought YOU were MAS so I emailed them!  No response yet.  So how much length will be left over?

[yooper]

I am not sure what you mean by "All of here are aware...”?

Simply a figure of speech, considering AC is an audio forum.  

I have had personal contact with Roger Russell and Joe Perfino who is now the President of Tributaries Cable, this is my personal experience.

This is not experience, it's another persons opinion.  If you have not attempted to experiment with cables, you can't speak from experience.

If I were stating that higher priced cable is a waste, why would I be referencing a cable manufacturer?

Honestly, after reading your posts a couple times, I admit, I am confused.  I guess I'm not sure what your trying to say, or what your point is.  Your posts do seem contradicting.

Do not take a posting as a threat, debate or stirring the pot, try to have an open mind and allow others to post without condemning them within minutes.

Relax summer, you are entitled to your opinion.  However, when your second post is referencing cables as audio jewelry, and your first post was basically the same but made in a manufactures board, which was disrespectful, it appears you have an agenda.

If I am wrong, then I do apologize for having mistaken you.

Mark

[jneutron]

Most of the signal travels on the surface.

No.

se

Oh my...Steve...be careful ya don't disagree with one of dem "eeelectrical eeenjuneer" types..

Besides, if ya squint hard enough, yas can surely see doze lectron thingies scurryin across the surface of the wires..

Cheers, John

"Gotta get back in time.."

[Daygloworange]

No.

se

Guess ya didn't have your Wheaties this mornin' huh se?   

Cheers   

[Steve Eddy]

Oh my...Steve...be careful ya don't disagree with one of dem "eeelectrical eeenjuneer" types..

Now now, John, let's be nice.

Besides, if ya squint hard enough, yas can surely see doze lectron thingies scurryin across the surface of the wires..

Oh, is THAT what they are?

Whew! That's a relief. I thought my cables had lice.

se

[Steve Eddy]

Guess ya didn't have your Wheaties this mornin' huh se?   

No.

se

 

[Imperial]

Wassup?

...
Imperial

[Steve Eddy]

Wassup?

 
Nommuch, man. Just diggin' some blues.

se

[trianglezerius]

Sounds like someone spends more time reading then listening. A wiseman once said "The proof is in the pudding"

[Summer]

That fancy book learning can make you wiser and you can afford reading material.
 
http://www.theaudiocritic.com/downloads/article_1.pdf

“Logically this is not the lie to start with because cables are accessories, not primary audio components. But it is the hugest, dirtiest, most cynical, most intelligence-insulting and, above all, most fraudulently profitable lie in audio, and therefore must go to the head of the list……………..”

“…Don’t piss on my back and tell me it’s raining” Clint Eastwood’s The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)