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Steve Eddy: Good food for thought, thanks for that, i'll continue to ponder!
Oh no. You're not getting off that easy. I didn't spend all that time writing all that just so it could come down to this. Now come on! Argue with me you big pussy! se
Yeah, my date didn't want to call it a night just yet.
So she sat and watched you type posts to a bunch of audio weenies? Mmmm. Kinky! se
I see you had your Wheaties this morning!
Quote from: Daygloworange on 21 Aug 2007, 04:04 pmI see you had your Wheaties this morning! Oh yeah. With Michael Vick featured on the box even. se
I was multi-tasking.... aaBa da Bing!!
Good to see ya back on AC Steve.
Yeah? Well don't get too full of yourself there, Denny. She was probably fantasizing she was being boinked by George Clooney. se
Thanks. Good to be back. Picked up a new tool recently. Guaranteed to "fix stupid." BONK! BONK!
I'd switch Steve....
I didn't spend all that time writing all that just so it could come down to this. Now come on! Argue with me you big pussy!
The construction of the power cord (and I'm referring here to the typical three conductor types) will play a role in chassis leakage currents. This is due to the capacitive coupling between the hot lead and the safety ground lead. Two chassis with different chassis leakage currents can result in interchassis currents, which are currents which flow between equipment chassis through the ground lead of the interconnects.Because the ground lead of the interconnects will have some non-zero resistance, the interchassis current flowing through them will have an IR drop across them which appears as noise at the input of the downstream component.While technically this isn't a distortion of the signal itself, it is an example of an effect a power cord can have.
Yet people who use such things as bottles of rocks, intelligent chips, clever little clocks, and even putting photographs of themselves and their audio systems in their freezers also report "hearing the difference."So what exactly does that say about "hearing a difference"? Does it mean that there's quite literally nothing that doesn't produce an actual audible difference and similarly there's quite literally nothing too absurd and and that our sense of hearing ultimately has no limits at all?If not, are those people reporting hearing such differences with rocks, chips, clocks and frozen photographs simply deluding themselves? And if so, how can one be sure they're also not deluding themselves when it comes to things such as interconnects, speaker cables and power cords?
DGODenny, I'm not sure what the proportional breakdown is, but there's a lot of folks that live their lives in clear shades of black and white only...with complete intolerence of gray. My biz partner is such a person, as is my sister, and at least two sister-in-laws and a brother-in-law. I'm not a very competitive sort, so I don't engage them in their stark black/white views of the world.....but I see others much more inclined to be competitive do so regularly and get all steamed over these folks bull-headed, steadfastness to what they know and only what they know. You can't convince them anything exists outside the realm of what they know already. I haven't yet decided whether that bull-headed steadfastness is a lack of creativity, a control issue they possess, or either an overdeveloped sense of self (ie., overblown ego) or an undernourished sense of self.The world's a big place and all sorts wander about on it John / TheChairlessGuy
Heheh, ok, Steve, here we go
Ok, so the different cord constructions would allow for slight capacitance differences between hot / ground. So dissimilarities between components relationship to ground, presumably exaggerated if dissimilar cords were to be used. Sounds like 'non star grounding' problems typical within any given component. So that's an easy fix - use the same cable for everything.
I'd imagine that amount of capacitance to be very low, therefore would act in two ways: inter-component noise, which should be easily taken care of by the filter caps in the power supply, and a potential low pass filter to the power system supply frequency, which would - quick back of the envelope guess - be acting on frequencies >than 50kz. Outside of the range of most speakers, and again, dealt with by the power supply.
Your example would essentially be a null result, especially on good gear with decent PSU's, and less so (but still marginal at best) on cheaper gear. A bit ironic no? The good cords would only help out the cheap gear? Ah, but this arena is no stranger to irony in design.
Let's move on...
Shakti stones, those weird little resonators that the 6Moons guys like (which physics says can't work as described), and other esoteric doo-dads hung, set, clamped, dangled or otherwise used to enchant gear - make a difference? What does any rational person think? Yet, if people are convinced, let them be. It's like religion, or S&M - if it feels good, go for it. Just not my cup of tea, and that's just fine, since we all get to choose.
I'll just draw the line in acting, or believing, (or paying!) for that tinfoil pyramid to sit on top of my preamp. Like we talked about earlier, humans are impressionable things. Some are convinced that a dead rabbit appendage on their keychain can positively steer the days events. Audio snake oil is just an extension of that belief system, with the twist - 'I paid a LOT for that, and it's very beautiful, so it must work'. You're right, people are wanting so bad to believe that they outright convince themselves.
What's that Forrest Gump line, about life and fruitcakes? I can't remember, something like that perhaps applies here too.
You know why i like this conversation with you? Is because you are a CABLE GUY! and you're discussing the false faiths people have with products in your very industry. You're bold Steve, don't let anyone tell you any different
There are a number of things which can contribute to the subjective perception of differences even when there are no physical or actual audible differences which have absolutely nothing to do with what people want to believe.My point is that the phenomenon is real and has been long established. And that begs the question, how exactly does one know if their perception of differences is due to actual audible differences or to this phenomenon? I see those who would simply dismiss those who put photographs of themselves in their freezers, but insist that interconnects and speaker cables are audibly different because "they heard it" even though those with photographs of themselves in their freezers also "heard it."
It's really not so simple. There are a number of things which can contribute to the subjective perception of differences even when there are no physical or actual audible differences which have absolutely nothing to do with what people want to believe.My point is that the phenomenon is real and has been long established. And that begs the question, how exactly does one know if their perception of differences is due to actual audible differences or to this phenomenon?
What am I to make of these two facts? Best I can say is I have no answer. I simply don't know. And I'm quite content not knowing.se
