[lonewolfny42]

Jim....

I mean no offense, Chris, but I'll be leaving mine in the system.  Guess I'm just not a bling kinda guy.

Never know when you might wanna ..."power up"....so, I'm ready.....

[Bigfish]

As far as audio jewelry.....What's wrong with that, anyways?

Nothing....I traded in my gold chain....went to silver...  



(Thats a BSC Statement....nice power cord)

3 of those beauties arrived today and I couldn't wait to get 'em in the system.  A 4th will be sent after John figures out what went wrong with the connectors (didn't pass his QC checks).

I mean no offense, Chris, but I'll be leaving mine in the system.  Guess I'm just not a bling kinda guy. 

Looks good on you, though.   

Jim:

Are you hearing a substantial improvement over the Silver Black Sands PCs?  One of the used Silver PCs I purchased came with a 20 amp connector and I had to send it to John to replace with a 15 amp connector.  I am looking forward to getting it back so I can connect it to the Candela.

Ken

[AdamM]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

I use pure silver interconnects and speaker cables, and like them, but admit the differences are subtle.

Powercords however...  The electricity entering your home has gone many miles through copper, then through the cheap wiring in your house.  How would going through a better conductor for the last <.001% of it's journey, improve sonics, is beyond explanation.

Pretty? yes. Fun? sure. Interesting? absolutely.   Effective?  I challenge anyone to a blind test on their own gear, to average >50% in guessing the difference over a series of tests.

Has anyone done blind tests?  What were the results?

Out of the few large, and one 'budget unlimited' recording studios i've been in, they all used the manufacturers supplied power cables for amplification.

Wouldn't the money be better spent on room treatment?

It's peculiar to see listening rooms with $200 (or more) power cords, yet no treatment of early reflections.   Clearly, fashion is a larger motivation than function or performance, in those cases.

Cheers,
/A

[Double Ugly]

Jim:

Are you hearing a substantial improvement over the Silver Black Sands PCs?  One of the used Silver PCs I purchased came with a 20 amp connector and I had to send it to John to replace with a 15 amp connector.  I am looking forward to getting it back so I can connect it to the Candela.

Ken

They're awfully good, Ken, enough so that Kandy and I were in agreement about selling the Silver Reference Mk.Vs and replacing them with Statement Ones. 

But the Statement Ones are a *LOT* more expensive.  There's improvement to be had over the Silver Refs, but your money is *MUCH* better spent on an Ultimate PS (and maybe a stock Burson Buffer). 

I don't believe you'll truly be able to appreciate the differences in the PCs until you have those IMHO.

[Double Ugly]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

---- Break ----

I challenge anyone to a blind test on their own gear, to average >50% in guessing the difference over a series of tests.

I'll take that challenge.  Bring whatever stock PCs you want.

What are the stakes?

[Bigfish]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

Yes, I would!

Have you personally tried high-end PCs in your system?  I am not an electrical engineer but I am an engineer and conceptually I agree with your comments; however, when I connected the Black Sands Silver PCs to my amps the change to the music was not suttle.  If you have revealing speakers, like the SP Tech Timepieces, I am confident you will hear the difference.  Again, I would not be afraid to take the challenge with my system.

Ken

[Steve Eddy]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

I use pure silver interconnects and speaker cables, and like them, but admit the differences are subtle.

Powercords however...  The electricity entering your home has gone many miles through copper, then through the cheap wiring in your house.  How would going through a better conductor for the last <.001% of it's journey, improve sonics, is beyond explanation.

Is it beyond explanation as to why your pure silver interconnects and speaker cables sound better? If not, what exactly explains it?

To put it another way, what is it about regular ol' copper that produces more distortion than pure silver?

se

[AdamM]

Is it beyond explanation as to why your pure silver interconnects and speaker cables sound better? If not, what exactly explains it?

Not beyond explanation.  There's several pf of capacitance with copper cables at standard runs.  Very subtle, but arguably audible.  Not sure what 'distortion' copper has that you mention, other than the capacitance, and resistance, which is neutral by itself.

I just don't 'get' the powercable thing.  Thus my asking.  Without blind tests, i'd suspect that it was perception / wanting to believe stuff going on.  That's a very powerful and convincing aspect, to us impressionable human beings.

As for room treatment, aside from WAF challenges, putting money into cables instead of room treatment reeks highly of  priority asymmetry  

/A

[Bigfish]

They're awfully good, Ken, enough so that Kandy and I were in agreement about selling the Silver Reference Mk.Vs and replacing them with Statement Ones. 

But the Statement Ones are a *LOT* more expensive.  There's improvement to be had over the Silver Refs, but your money is *MUCH* better spent on an Ultimate PS (and maybe a stock Burson Buffer). 

I don't believe you'll truly be able to appreciate the differences in the PCs until you have those IMHO.
[/quote]

Jim:

The Ultimate Power Supply and possibly the Burson upgrades for the S3 are definitely next on my wish, to get, list.  If I ever upgrade the PCs from the Silvers it will be down the road after I rearrage the room and it get it properly treated.

Ken

PS.  Jim, Unfortunately I did not take your advice and fear I have stayed too long.  Now that I hear what I have been missing I just want to keep improving on it!

[zybar]

Is it beyond explanation as to why your pure silver interconnects and speaker cables sound better? If not, what exactly explains it?

Not beyond explanation.  There's several pf of capacitance with copper cables at standard runs.  Very subtle, but arguably audible.  Not sure what 'distortion' copper has that you mention, other than the capacitance, and resistance, which is neutral by itself.

I just don't 'get' the powercable thing.  Thus my asking.  Without blind tests, i'd suspect that it was perception / wanting to believe stuff going on.  That's a very powerful and convincing aspect, to us impressionable human beings.

As for room treatment, aside from WAF challenges, putting money into cables instead of room treatment reeks highly of  priority asymmetry  

/A

I agree that room treatments are more important than power cords (look at pics of my room - some days I think I keep Ethan at RealTraps in business!!), but I disagree that power cords don't make a difference.

In my system, I definitely hear a difference.  BTW, until recently, the super expensive cords weren't beating the excellent Black Sand Silver Ref Mk V in my system.  The only cord that has really bettered the Silver Ref Mk V is the Black Sand Statement One.   aa

I just wish I could swing three of them like DU has just done...

George

[lonewolfny42]

Ken.....
Audio is not a race....take you time....

[Bigfish]

Ken.....
Audio is not a race....take you time....

Chris,

I am now to the point where it is no longer a race.  I can really hear differences when I make changes to the system as I did when I tried direct connecting the S3 to the amps this past weekend.  I started this pursuit just wanting to build a quality system.  Now I want to refine the system and the room until it really sings!  It will take some time, and unfortunately money, but I will get it there!

Ken

[AdamM]

I agree that room treatments are more important than power cords (look at pics of my room - some days I think I keep Ethan at RealTraps in business!!), but I disagree that power cords don't make a difference.

In my system, I definitely hear a difference.  BTW, until recently, the super expensive cords weren't beating the excellent Black Sand Silver Ref Mk V in my system.  The only cord that has really bettered the Silver Ref Mk V is the Black Sand Statement One. 

That's cool. I'd love to do some comparisons, and blind tests even.   Great to hear/see about your room treatments.   Astonishingly overlooked aspect by many, IMHO.

Cheers,
/A

[lonewolfny42]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

---- Break ----

I challenge anyone to a blind test on their own gear, to average >50% in guessing the difference over a series of tests.

I'll take that challenge.  Bring whatever stock PCs you want.

What are the stakes?

Jim....If you need a blindfold....I still have it......

Ken....Good. You build on what you have....you have an excellent base to move forward....

[Double Ugly]

PS.  Jim, Unfortunately I did not take your advice and fear I have stayed too long.  Now that I hear what I have been missing I just want to keep improving on it!

  That wasn't unexpected, especially after getting the Timepieces.  If you think things are good now with the Candela, wait'll you hear the Ultimate!

Unfortunately, if you don't want to use a pre-amp to sweeten the sound, you'll have to go with the Ultimate.  I say "unfortunately" because of the extra $$$ involved, not because of any reduction in sound quality.  Quite the opposite, in fact. 

Save for the Burson Buffer, everything I've ever added into the chain degraded the sound.  I'm not saying the Candela would do the same - I've never tried it - but I'd be surprised if it fared better than some of the other equipment I've tried. 

There's just something magical about running direct, assuming the source is of sufficient quality.  The Ultimate PS and fully tricked-out SB is definitely "of sufficient quality!"

[Double Ugly]

Would any of you guys take a blind test regarding powercords?

---- Break ----

I challenge anyone to a blind test on their own gear, to average >50% in guessing the difference over a series of tests.

I'll take that challenge.  Bring whatever stock PCs you want.

What are the stakes?

Jim....If you need a blindfold....I still have it......

  Thanks, Chris.  I may take you up on it!

[lonewolfny42]

Ah.....but some may like the extra "bloom" that a tube preamp may bring....to each, his own. 

[doug s.]

Ah.....but some may like the extra "bloom" that a tube preamp may bring....to each, his own. 

i certainly do, as long as the frequency spectrum is extended & neutral, the timing isn't off, there's good dynamics, & no obscuring of detail.  good tube amplification/preamplification can do that, imo.   

doug s.

[Double Ugly]

Ah.....but some may like the extra "bloom" that a tube preamp may bring....to each, his own. 

True dat!  But to my tastes, the Ultimate PS/fully-modified SB or Transporter running direct to the amp(s) which are in-turn connected to great speakers does all the 'blooming' required to produce an organic presence.

Any more would likely be unrealistic IMHO, but as you say, "to each, his own." 

[Steve Eddy]

Not beyond explanation.  There's several pf of capacitance with copper cables at standard runs.  Very subtle, but arguably audible.

Since capacitance is an issue of geometry and dielectric, I don't see how copper would have any greater capacitance than silver if the geometries and dielectrics are the same. How is this anomaly explained?

Not sure what 'distortion' copper has that you mention, other than the capacitance, and resistance, which is neutral by itself.

Well, if it's just an issue of capacitance and resistance, you can end up with the same capacitance and resistance of a set of silver cables using copper. So I was assuming from your original statement that there's something more going on than simply C and R.

I just don't 'get' the powercable thing.

And many don't "get" the interconnect and speaker cable thing either.

Without blind tests, i'd suspect that it was perception / wanting to believe stuff going on.  That's a very powerful and convincing aspect, to us impressionable human beings.

Quite so.

And since there have yet to be any definitive blind test results for interconnects and speaker cables (at least when the differences between the cables are below known hearing thresholds), why shouldn't one also suspect that it's perception/wanting to believe stuff going on with respect to speaker cables and interconnects?

As for room treatment, aside from WAF challenges, putting money into cables instead of room treatment reeks highly of  priority asymmetry  

Hehehe. Won't get any argument from me there.

se