Cabling

Affordable$$Audio · « **on:** 12 Jun 2007, 02:43 am »

I think we all can agree that quality cabling can make a noticeable difference in a systems performance. With that in mind, it would be helpful to list the cables and equipment that you find creates a fine synergy based upon value for the buck!!

Early B. · « **Reply #1 on:** 12 Jun 2007, 03:58 am »

That's easy -- DH Labs Air Matrix.

The Air Matrix easily dethroned my beloved Kimber Heros.

navi · « **Reply #2 on:** 12 Jun 2007, 02:23 pm »

You WILL think i'm bias because i sell some of these cables- but I think they are give good "bang for ya buck"
Interconnects:
Mogami 2893
Oyaide PA-02

Digital video:
Belden 1505A- http://www.enjoythemusic.com/etmcable.htm
use this with canare 75ohm connectors and it will be very hard to beat.

Speaker cable:
Canare 4S11

Power cables:
I haven't found anything that i actually like under $300- But Black sands mades a very good cable

Ivan

Affordable$$Audio · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 03:31 pm »

To me, cabling is all about synergy. I've recently had the opportunity to check out a well-thought of set of IC's. On one system they sounded quite dry, on another, much warmer.

Once again it goes back to making sure to demo in your own home.

gooberdude · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 03:54 pm »

I've had a lot of fun with Paul Speltz's cables. The Anti-IC's and anti-cables together do something pretty funky...emphasis on the fun part

In terms of power cords i've only used a few aftermarket, but to me, these are critical.

Chris Venhaus' unshielded twisted pair bulk power cable + his tubing and ground cable assembled with an Oyaide P-079 male and Furutech FI-11 AG iec end. altogether about $225 and somehow they gel with all my components and the Speltz copper in extreme fashion. Someday i'll insert a matching Oyaide iec end but have no desire to change the cable.

i've also used Audioquest IC's (lower end) and DH Labs Power Plus ac cables...both were substandard in terms of synergy or whatever.

If you have a passive preamp, check out Speltz's cables...

Sonny · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 04:15 pm »

Cabling...
Don't we all know that of all the components in the audio path, this is where the biggest $$$ are made? The margin on cables are rediculous... Having said this, I've listened to and tried a number of cables, from Zu Gede; Varial; Crux and Warmouth, as well as Gronebergs, Kimber Hero, DH Labs the "One", Analysis Plus, Audioquest, Goertz and the like...

Anyways, to make it short, I now have all DIY cables using magnet wires from speaker to ic...and I like the sound of it in my system more than the aforementioned cables...plus all the $$$ i saved to buy software and food!!!!

1000a · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 04:34 pm »

Hi Sonny

Same here all the wires in my system now are DIY magwire

and I know they are playing in the big leagues for peanuts, so I can focus on music or other areas of MS that need attention. DIY room treatments are another home room

. the best things IMS are these and the cheapest. I have even had incredible improvements making power cords from magwire just unbelievablely good

.

about the only cable I will buy is the new stereovox hv2, for digital transfer

the magwire is so good thats one area i do not worry about anymore

Sonny · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 04:44 pm »

1000a,
good to hear...
how are you DIYing your magwire ic?
i use three runs for each cable, one hot, nuetral and ground. The ground, I wrap around the hot and neutral and terminated it with the neutral on the out end and leave it unterminated in the in end...
I find that I have a pair I made that goes from my pre to amp that is over 12ft without any sign of interference from RF or any other noise....
Amazing.. and well, what costs money in this is time to build it, but it's a hobby and I love the enjoyment from it, and the connectors. I use bullets and nuetrik connectors for both RCA and XLRs...
How are you doing the power cables? what gauge are you using for that?
do you twist the wires? etc???
Thanks

1000a · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:14 pm »

First and for most these are not bare wires, but certainly not UL approved either, so do your research on magwire and make or don't make them, I assume absolutely no resonsibility if for some reason you endanger yourself or others by your making your own.

PC construction from magwire: first 1 I did was all 18ga, and ultimately very stiff so for 2nd I used 22ga. increasing the wire count.

mag wire PC-2: my 2nd PC 12 hot 22ga./ 12 neutral 22 ga. / 6 earth 18ga.: before braid

Ideally the tape should be removed from the PC, but it being a PC and magwire- I wanted to make sure I know whats what if I open the plug for any changes. Being that enamel is the covering its probably good practice to not touch them when plugged in, although a little paranoid on my part. I still think error on side of caution these are not SCs or ICs, lots of juice flows thru them. This particular wire is GP200.

I need to find my notes on the twisting I did, save the images to your PC and blow them up for closer study. I will look for these, basicly the hot and neutral are twisted together first and lastly I twisted the earth around that twist. At the ends I taped again to make absolutely shure there were no mistakes before termination. I also have a volt meter.

Recently I found a place to buy teflon magwire (same super thin coating) and will try that for my next ICs to be used with copper bullets. which will be 2-3 30 ga. signal and 1 24ga. return, twisted but the size wire needs some kind of armature sence they are so small.

Sonny · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:16 pm »

Thanks 1000a...
I will work on a set this weekend using 11awg or 14awg magwires...
Thanks!
T

ctviggen · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: 1000a on 14 Jun 2007, 05:14 pm

Ideally the tape should be removed from the PC, but it being a PC and magwire- I wanted to make sure I know whats what if I open the plug for any changes. Being that enamel is the covering its probably good practice to not touch them when plugged in, although a little paranoid on my part. I still think error on side of caution these are not SCs or ICs, lots of juice flows thru them.

That looks like the most dangerous power cord on the planet. There's no way I'd touch that.

FastEddy · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:22 pm »

1000a, you can not play with the wiring in my house, ever. You will keep your hands off of my audio equipment. You will not be allowed to get anywhere ear my daughter or any of my nieces. Anyone who wires line cords up like that should be barred from major or minor construction projects and probably should be put on a list somewhere as "a menace, dangerous to safety".

zzzzttttt .... smoke, stink ....

1000a · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:34 pm »

hey guys if you think its really that bad should i pull the post, seriously i do not want anybody to endanger themselves with something that is unsafe?

they work for me but I do NOT want to give anybody a bad idea. serious I can delete it!

It should be noted magwire is self insulated with very durable enamel with high abrassion precautions, these are not BARE WIRES! this particular wire is rated to 200 C. they are typically used in winding motors, transformers and such.

Please let me know if I should delete this, I really to not want to encourage dangerous practices.

1000a · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 05:52 pm »

Here are the stripped wire ends, on GP200 I had to use a knife to remove the enamel covering that insulates the wire. Obviously one needs to be sure in the termination of such that no bare wires from the neutral, hot or ground are touching each other.

If that knowledge is not at ones disposal, all your wires should be commerically made.

mcullinan · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 06:05 pm »

uhh put your clothes back on sonny... can you say have a bath and throw the toaster in before something terrible happens...
Mike

1000a · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 06:14 pm »

You can find a commerically sold magwire PC at Mapleshade audio on their website and a power strip with the same. In such case they have fewer wires rubbing against one another that may make many feel more comfortable. and can certainly purchase that one, which I am quite certain will amaze you.

if one trys a cord such with the wire I used they will find the stripping of the wires guite a project (way over an hour) the stuff does not yield easily even to a knife!! (ref GP200)

1000a · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 06:25 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 14 Jun 2007, 06:05 pm

uhh put your clothes back on sonny... can you say have a bath and throw the toaster in before something terrible happens...
Mike

thanks Mike cause I was obiviously really starting to worry

Sonny · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 06:38 pm »

Thanks for the concern guys...but like 1000a says, the magwires are insulated via the enamel...and well, ofcourse i'd be putting them in insulation, sleeves, etc....
Zapped!!!

weirdo · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:04 pm »

I second Anti-Cables for IC's and speaker wire. As far as power cords go, I tried a home made power cord with hospital grade connectors and I think it made a minor but noticeable difference in the sound from the CD player. My cost was about 50 bucks.

I think with all wires you can get to the point of diminishing returns pretty quickly so I think a fun thing to do is :

1) Experiment ( as cheaply as practical) and find out what configuration seems to sound best to you in both speaker and IC wires
( solid/twisted/braided ) and then:
2) Find the highest Performance/Price units you can find in that particular configuration. I gaurantee a hundred bucks can get you wires you don't have to worry about any more.

1000a · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: Sonny on 14 Jun 2007, 06:38 pm

Thanks for the concern guys...but like 1000a says, the magwires are insulated via the enamel...and well, ofcourse i'd be putting them in insulation, sleeves, etc....
Zapped!!!

Hi Sonny

Certainly I am no expert

It is MO that most all the sonic benifits from magwire come from its incredibly thin dielectric (the 1st or 2nd most damaging thing that adds distortion to cables), covering it with anything else increases the dielectric and would I think reduce its sonic attributes. but that's MO can't voach for others, I just kinda followed the Anti-cable and Mapleshade wave and started asking myself questions based on what I read and tried to deduce what is so special about this wire.

Considering these are power cables, I can certainly understand an inclination to cover them. And I have not ABed such, so I can not swear to it, but after a 100plus hrs of reading up on cables I believe this is true. Safety wize a rubber cover is certainly a good idea. The Mapleshade website puts their magwire PC cord in a plastic bag? marketing' thin dielectric don't know. I am not sure?

But Mapleshade's PC cables are 4-6 wire total so there is far less rubbing between conductors. Anyway I just kind of based mine on the confiqurations of the best AQ models and other high end cables I could get enough info on their inner construction, twisting, gauges and what not. Finally for both my speaker wires and PCs I also kind of jumped off the many designs of cat5 brewed SC, TNTs, CVh, and so on. Many small wires seeming to be the common thread in alot of peoples mind for better sound, nothing scientific or creative on my end just executing other's ideas with different wire cause I am fasinated by possible gains of the super thin dielectric.

Speaking of which CVh is using cotton as a dielectric in his lastest ICs, supposedly you can't get a much better dielectric. Maybe Summigo's air with teflon tape in his newest stereovox but that is completely sheiled in metal, thightly woven and is a digital cable, so I guess a different animal all together.

I hope this is helpful in some way and not just too much coffe and an unwillingness to do the other things in life like cut the grass. I feel there is much to be gained from other members who are willing to do some DIY ICs and SCs (sans the PCs) from magwire with their own spins on what they think would make a good design. It all seems an untapped gold mine to me, the only research being done if you call it that is by Anti-cable and Mapleshade and a hand full of DIY people = 10 if the wind is really really strong. 2-3 here and 2-3 on the asylium.

Every other effort 100s of people trying new things in cable design is with traditional wire that must be wrapped, to keep it from oxidizing at the very least and killing people at the other extreme.

I simply went a totally different direction than the Anti cable and Mapleshade. I knew it would be an extremely ugly cable unless it was very costly done by weaver type perfectionists, so I fiqured this prohibited Mapleshade and Anti-Cable from trying lots of multiple wire or at least marketing it cause:

1-It would be very very expensive to make it look good, making the retail customers very leary to even try it.

2-If they did it like mine, many wires twisted and sloppy it would be (cheap) but unmarketable cause of its sloppy appearance.

So this is exactly where I took my Q to try what they would have a very difficult time selling cause of expense and appearance. When clearly other designers had already done the neccessary research with traditional wire. I simply followed the big boys proven designs hoping to easily out do the Mapleshade and Anti-Cable entries.

cause they simply could not sell it and I don't care if its ugly I care what it shoulds like.