Cabling

mcullinan · « **Reply #20 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:29 pm »

It dices, chops, slices and dices... Great for carrots, and eggplants...

Easy to follow assembly instructions by IKEA.
Please allow 6 weeks for delivery.

1000a · « **Reply #21 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:51 pm »

you are very very twisted

i am come to think of it a little depressed but thats Just Not Right!

gooberdude · « **Reply #22 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:53 pm »

I don't think the issue with magwire as powercord wire has anything to do with the enamel...its the fact those wires will break right in half if bent in the same area a few times. Just grap a paper clip and bend away, at some point it will split. magwire is no difft.

Mapleshade's power cords cannot be compared to magwire, sorry. they are bendable. Though i don't think their design is superb safety wise, it doesn't share a thing with the magwire pc's on this thread.

what in the heck was this thread about??

mcullinan · « **Reply #23 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 08:56 pm »

I am only kidding, I love all peoples of all kinds, especially audio crazies!!!
Please dont take offense.... I only lightly josh.
Mike

aa

1000a · « **Reply #24 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 09:29 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 14 Jun 2007, 08:53 pm

I don't think the issue with magwire as powercord wire has anything to do with the enamel...its the fact those wires will break right in half if bent in the same area a few times. Just grap a paper clip and bend away, at some point it will split. magwire is no difft.

Mapleshade's power cords cannot be compared to magwire, sorry. they are bendable. Though i don't think their design is superb safety wise, it doesn't share a thing with the magwire pc's on this thread.

what in the heck was this thread about??

i don't remember either, anyway the magwire is quite bendable, if you order a few diff gauges you would get a good feel for their pliability it changes alot from ga to ga. ie the anti SC is tuff to bend, the antis smallest IC wire is another story althogether I would suspect. In regards to 18 ga. it is very bendable and still very substantial stuff. on a PC cord I would not go below 22ga.

I have 30,28,26,24,22,20,18,16,14 and even 12 in house so I am familar with the sizes pretty intimately and am getting a good feel for what bends easily less easily and so on. The stuff I have is not the Rat Shack stuff I have used that. The 16,14 and 12 is great for sculpture but has gotta be not the best choice for SC - the thicker the wire the more the distortion is MO and many many others.

I am becoming the magwire preacher (skip the edgy PC if its pushing it) but do try ICs and SCs, easily worth the effort. That cable Anti-Cable uses for SC is really thick - small multiple wires would be far superior as some on audio asylum have already documented. Yes I will get my ass to an auidio addiction meeting and stop my preaching

. no kidding I am becoming like the wolf (66 days online) and I need intervention before its too late, please post the treatment center's phone # I am toasted in audio world and can not stop.

Hey Gooberdude what ever happened with that (RS) shot gun SC Rollo was talking about did you guys compare it to the Anti-Cable SC?

is it any good?

gooberdude · « **Reply #25 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 09:32 pm »

Oh, believe you me.... when someone can DIY the Anti-IC's with Bullet plugs for less than $100 I am game for sure.

it is funny to have anti-cables running into the x-over on the hawthorne Si's. its as if the same cable runs from my amp all the way through the coils.

magwire rules, just be cautious with pc's.

Sonny · « **Reply #26 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 09:42 pm »

here's a good pictures of my speaker cables and ic going into the amp.

And here's one of the cables going from the XO, below to the speakon connectors and into the GeerS eVe, also a DIY speaker.

And here's the overall set up.

1000a · « **Reply #27 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 09:49 pm »

very cool

Sonny · « **Reply #28 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 10:33 pm »

Thanks...
I like the red and black twist of the speaker cables...
The i/c are all wrapped in black...you can see the 20 awg green magwire inside.

Anyways, again, I think this is the best budget cables, DIY with good design, implementation, construction and lots of $$$ left over for bigger things...

Here's the big picture of the system...

mcullinan · « **Reply #29 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 10:49 pm »

How do the magwires sound?
Mike

Sonny · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 10:53 pm »

Quote from: mcullinan on 14 Jun 2007, 10:49 pm

How do the magwires sound?
Mike

Well, as you can read on this thread...a couple of us use only "magwires" for all our DIY Cables...that should say something, right?

They are well, transparent, open, detailed extented and overall very pleasant, at least with my Tube Gear!!!

1000a · « **Reply #31 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 11:04 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 14 Jun 2007, 08:53 pm

I don't think the issue with magwire as powercord wire has anything to do with the enamel...its the fact those wires will break right in half if bent in the same area a few times. Just grap a paper clip and bend away, at some point it will split. magwire is no difft.

Mapleshade's power cords cannot be compared to magwire, sorry. they are bendable. Though i don't think their design is superb safety wise, it doesn't share a thing with the magwire pc's on this thread.

what in the heck was this thread about??

I have bent a piece of 18ga. of the GP200 I have left and right 22 times to a ninety degree bend, just checked it w a bright bright lite can't find any breaks in the enamel. will bend more and check with a magnifying glass. It is in fact an excellent suggestion, I was a littel creepped out after I built my first couple, but the sonic improvements were so incredibly mesmerising I was willing to be a liitle racey I am not kidding every one I put IMS had the same effect more more more there air etc - tighter bass add it - it was there. doubt anything could beat it until you spent 700-1200. for a PC. now given that fact x 4-5 cables, you get the picture. Lets see how Sonnys work out can't wait to see if he gets the same kinda-similar improvement.

now the wire I am using is GP200, not bending any other type, I can tell you there are 10 diff combos of enamel type finishes on mag wire for choices just for starters covering all types of application having not to do with audio but you can pick and choose based upon the severity of the industrial situations they are used in. And theres more choices in those 10 types 1-4 coats depending on your requirements running from light to extra heavy. So for PCs I would err on the side of caution with the heavy dutty stuff.

OK I just bent the wire 40 times in a pair of sissors with the wire laying sideways not against the blade - perpendicular but flat it broke at 40 bends. On the other hand a strait cut with the sissors and some serious effort will cut the 18ga. (serious does not= brute but does = yes bear down somewhat), So there you have it, yes it can be broken with a good deal of effort if you do them use comon sense pick a GA. you feel comfortable with, a 14,16 or 12 is not gonna cut with sissors, you can use far less wires (less sanding scrapping) and lower you anxiety and see what you think, 12 ga is quite stiff. So mabe a 4 coated heaviest duty 14ga. would make it simple (3 wires extremely strong) if that one blows you mind there is a world of possibilities.

This is not a yank it out swap it 30 times cable it needs the same TLC one uses with bullet plugs or on the other extreme any super stiff cables (why is all the good stuff so damn unruley). Where the line is between strength and flexiblity I do not know, I can tell you my 1st 2 are all 18 gauge wires making them stiff so they are a little unmanageable, so I next did 22 ga. I would not go thinner. I based everything roughly on a 3 x 14ga. wire total much like AQ. So 3 14ga. would be the easiest way to check em out and quick.

1000a · « **Reply #32 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: Sonny on 14 Jun 2007, 10:53 pm

Quote from: mcullinan on 14 Jun 2007, 10:49 pm
How do the magwires sound?
Mike

Well, as you can read on this thread...a couple of us use only "magwires" for all our DIY Cables...that should say something, right?

They are well, transparent, open, detailed extented and overall very pleasant, at least with my Tube Gear!!!

Hi Sonny

Please let us know what you think of your PC once you build it, I am thrilled I am not alone in this venture. I can't wait to see if it helps your system as it did mine.

I have been blowing this horn for 2 months and about to OD on my stereo upgrade itius and DIY projects and go obsess about my yard or car or something physically healthier for summer. I do think this stuff plays far enough up the latter you would have to spend alot of money to beat it for somewhat limited improvements, it really ratchted MS up in a very serious way, I could not have done without dropping stupid piles of $$.

Each and every new insertion of a PC, IC, or SC to include biwire had a serious improving effect on me enjoying my music better thru a much improved presentation. the sum of these efforts has really knocked me out, or I would not write about it all the time.

PS. Mike you might want to try just a speaker cable DIY keep it really easy not a ton of wires and you simply strip the ends no termation hook em up. Not much lost if they do not thrill you.
In MS (tube amp, fairly relaxed speakers) it has all been worth the effort but YMMV.

Sonny · « **Reply #33 on:** 14 Jun 2007, 11:31 pm »

Will doo...I plan on making one this weekend...
In so far as the cables go regarding bending and breaking...I think that you can take any cable, minus all the insulation and covers, bend it and it will break...at the end of the day, i can honelst say that most cables are only drawn and manufacture by a hand full of companies..I wouldn't doubt it if the exotic cables come from these same companies, just dressed up and hyped up to be what they are, $$$ of dollars. I can only vouch that my experience, the magwire wires in my application works wonders for me and has allowed me to do what I need to do, save money while even gain a bit on the audio enjoyment side of cabling...
I'll let you know when they are done!

mcullinan · « **Reply #34 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 12:49 pm »

1000a,
I think I will. I went to his website and it was all messed up... I will try again today.
Mike

FastEddy · « **Reply #35 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 04:11 pm »

sonny: " ... like 1000a says, the magwires are insulated via the enamel ..."

That may be, but enamel is only good as an insulator if it is not abused. Mearly flexing that connecting cable on 125 VAC power plug that 1000a put together will violate the integraty of the enamel insulation = .... zzzzzzzzttttt ... smoke ... stink ...

FYI: There are many "be on the look out" notices from insurance companies, building inspectors, master electricians, et al, regarding the use of enamel as an electrical insulator = not good on power wires = it does not work = the insulation fails easily resulting in voided insurance policies to say nothing of burned buildings ... 'cause not only is enamel a poor flexable insulator it is also a fire accelerant = it burns easily, it catches fire easily and it smokes and stinks.

Do a little research on Teflon ... works like a charm = great audio quality results = won't rupture under bending = actually insulates to 600 VAC and doesn't burn under normal circumstances.

1000a · « **Reply #36 on:** 15 Jun 2007, 11:40 pm »

MWS info on teflon magnet wire, one of 23 diff types of coverings (1-4 layers thick available) that I lumped into the phrase "Enamel", this is where a lot of people get confused because this is the common term used. One must study the different types to gain any understanding about magnet wire.

inserted update-quick
The easiest & fastest way to study the coverings offered, simply click on the various Thermal Classes once you hit the link (each temp has about 3 diffrent insulations described): http://www.weicowire.com/tableofcontents3.htm

INSULATION INFORMATION:
Temperature Class: 200° C
Insulation Type: Polytetrafluoloethylene (Teflon)
MWS Code: TEFLON NEMA Specification: None
Federal Specification: None
IEC Specification: None
Insulation Characteristics:
High heat resistance, excellent resistance to most solvents, acids and corrosive chemicals. High dielectric constant.
General Applications:
Miniature rotating components and windings where severe environments are encountered.

some of info from the link below

Thanks Fast Eddy

I do think your worry is justified, in the sense of traditional uses of different types of wire and their typical applications, it is a fact magnet wire being used for a power cord is certainly out of the norm. Although magnet wire is in fact laced through out our society in electric devices everywhere (it is not to my knowledge ever used in a power cord), a look at the 2 links below would give anyone a much better understanding of its qualities and standard uses.

I do feel that many of the coverings are far far far more durable than most believe, study the links!

Anyone who has any concerns should simply not use it for power cords plain and simple , not complicated at all.

Anyone who wants to do power cords needs to weigh the risks, and DO YOUR HOMEWORK!

In fact Fast Eddy has pointed out the places where it could be a problem.
I do disagree that the structral integirty of the covering is as fragile as he percieves it to be.

if anyone is unwilling to study both of these charts and each type of wire covering throughly you are on your own to speculate what ever you chose

23 types: http://www.mwswire.com/awgsearch1.asp

15 types: http://www.essexgroup.com/Products_Services/Magnet_Wire/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_wire

FastEddy · « **Reply #37 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 04:53 pm »

1000a: " ... I lumped into the phrase "Enamel", this is where a lot of people get confused because this is the common term used. One must study the different types to gain any understanding about magnet wire. ..."

Well, yes, I now see that you did "due diligence" on wire technology and insulators there of ... making your cables from Teflon insulated "mag wire" instead of the offending enamel insulation.

Of course, the thing that got my crotch covering bunched up was the use of enamel as an insulating material on flexing wire cables. (Usually a plastic, organic hydrocarbon material very much like automobile finish of old and quite commonly used to insulate non-flexing electrical and electronic cables since, well, since Edison suggested its use in DC motor windings as cost effective for such. Aka "she lack" ... and not related to Teflon or TFE at all.)

Enamel, as you apparently knew, will crack, flake off and otherwise make for a very poor insulator for power related interconnects that may bend or flex, capable of burning and smoking when the insulation is breached and can be set off by voltages below 70 VAC. ('stuff stinks too).

Anyway, I wish to appologize to you for any misunderstandings I may have caused regarding your otherwise quite interesting approach to audio and power interconnecting cables.

FastEddy · « **Reply #38 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 05:04 pm »

1000a: I also notice that you have an interest in passive fixtures for room treatments ... ( http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1061&pos=6 ) ... How goes this project??

1000a · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 Jun 2007, 09:04 pm »

Quote from: FastEddy on 16 Jun 2007, 04:53 pm

Anyway, I wish to appologize to you for any misunderstandings I may have caused regarding your otherwise quite interesting approach to audio and power interconnecting cables.

Thanks for the apology, but it is not necessary. I infact think cautionary posts to the contrary are very good, especially to alert people who may be of the ilk "oh cool I just get magnet wire and make PCs". I consider it an advanced project for audio people who want to try new things not thought of before. I can never assume that although adult - people will take responsibility for their actions by making their own decisions. Regardless of the creditials of the AC poster, (mine of which are none - I tend to operate in the world of ideas). Being a person of ideas it is important people with their feet planted on the earth chime in and speak their knowledge so anybody who might be completely clueness (no fault of their own) be reminded this is plugged into a wall outlet or conditioner (read tons of electrical juice-zsst!) you may want to reconsider doing this. At the very least, be completely aware of the potential risks, ICs and SCs usually can't kill people wall juice on the other hand is deadly. So be forwared!

Not a problem-it's a good thing! I can never assume everybody reading has basic understanding of anything, even what comes out of a wall socket!!!

The Room lens thing worked great for me, then I bought 16"x54" bags of insulation just to quickly initiate my self to the world of bass traps, Yep those guys were not kinding. These things are incredible the improvement in sound was just off the scale. So where I am now with it all is I bought ridgid Fiberglass to do the 1st reflection points with and to go back and make the bass traps with it for astectic and small room reasons. The bags of insulation are unopenned and can be easily return to the store. The great thing is its the quickest way to get the thrill from room treatments and should quickly get people involved in room traetments. I have found for me as others have said: stereo=50%, room =50%