Digital Amp Comparison 2007

USAudio · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Jan 2007, 06:25 pm »

If possible, please include the PS Audio Trio A-100 and Bel Canto S300:
http://www.psaudio.com/products/trio_a100.asp
http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_eOneS300.html

Danny Richie · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Jan 2007, 12:46 am »

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If possible, please include the PS Audio Trio A-100 and Bel Canto S300:

E-mails have now been sent to both of those companies.

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Your Digital Amp Comparison 2007 should include a TacT amp with Aberdeen/MauiMod upgrades.

We have a Lyngdorf amp coming. They are of the TacT family. If you are willing to send a Aberdeen/MauiMod TacT amp we will certainly consider it. So long as it readily available with the mods.

PaulHilgeman · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 01:40 pm »

Hey Guys,

Just FYI, the gainclone uses Class A driver stages, and a class AB output stage, all together in one chip. You implement it like a gigantic Op-Amp, setting gain with an input and feedback resistor. It can be implemented in inverting and non-inverting methods, just like an Op-Amp.

They sound surprisingly good, and will probably do well with the fairly efficient speakers for this demo. There are quite a few tweakers out there and people got really into exactly what components to use where, since there were only about 5 components, you could have the best possible components for a few hundred dollars.

They come in two 'flavors' and perform and sound quite different. The classic gainclone uses National Semi's LM3875, which puts out around 15 watts and then the LM3886 which puts out around 30 watts IIRC. The 3875 is what some company used in the 'Gaincard', a tinly little amplifier that sold for something like $2000.00, and received a few good reviews, and advertised a 70mm signal path or so.

I still have one that I use to evaluate with, I don't use it as a reference, but it is there for additional point of reference when designing speakers.

As to the Niagara, yes, real product available for purchase. I have pictures up on my website of the old chassis. I will have pics of the new chassis up by the end of next week or so. The one you will be receiving will be all broken in, so that won't be an issue at all, just the chassis will be new. It uses the Hypex UcD400 modules, modified in a few ways, with a nice power supply and some special attention paid to the AC side of things.

-Paul

Danny Richie · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 02:48 pm »

I look forward to hearing it Paul.

mezzrow · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 03:51 pm »

Ric Shultz's new amps should be considered. I am currently using a pair of his EVS 500M monoblocks with great success. I would be very curious to hear how people think they compare to the others.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 04:08 pm »

I have talked to Rick a few times on the phone. He seamed liked like a really nice guy. Do you have contact info for him?

wshuff · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 04:14 pm »

Here you go, Danny:

http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Amp_page.html

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 07:01 pm »

I understand the interest in digital amps....but I wonder if more might be served with a spattering of linear amps in the same price range. The Patek is certainly not a digital amp nor any of the other "gain clones" out there. However, I think it would be nice to hear it as well as the Pass first watt, and other hot relatively inexpensive (under $3,000) solid state amps.....maybe this would be too much work and too many products....but who says that digital (switching) is the best?!? and this coming from one who is making a digital (well, switching) amp.

Why not go even further and have a "best of the best" thang....like Men in Black....he he....you know...best of digital.....best of linear solid state and best of tube all under $3000......Limit it to 5 in each category....so 15 amps max.....of course, all the manufactures will think there amp is best so maybe you have a lot more product than you could do......Maybe you could have several rounds....like one day you do 5 digital amps....the next session five linear solid state and the next session tubes...and then have a best of best shoot out....hey, this is getting me excited. Just not very practical....Of course, if it was up to me....I would have no problem choosing five in each category (with a little research).

Certainly I could send one of my completely dual mono EVS 100S amps in for your mega digital comparison. However, it is sounding like you may have 10 or more amps by then? So, you might need several rounds to qualify for the title...he he. What is the set-up going to be....what is an LS6 speaker and what preamp, cables, source will you be using?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #28 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 07:51 pm »

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I understand the interest in digital amps....but I wonder if more might be served with a spattering of linear amps in the same price range. The Patek is certainly not a digital amp nor any of the other "gain clones" out there. However, I think it would be nice to hear it as well as the Pass first watt, and other hot relatively inexpensive (under $3,000) solid state amps.....maybe this would be too much work and too many products....

The original idea (last years comparisons) was to embrace all of the newer technology and high efficiency designs. This would be Class D, T, switching amps, digital amps etc. All of these are still relatively new and emerging designs and it is interesting to see which of these designs are being to show signs of excelling over any of the others.

I'll consider hosting (or co-hosting) a later event that limits amps only to price range. That might get real interesting too.

Rick, please send some amps to the GR Research address listed on our site and have them here three weeks or so before the event.

I'll ask Art to post some info about the test rig. It is pretty nice to say the least, so is the room.

There is a bunch of info about the LS-6's in my forum. Here is a comparison to our OB-7's: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=34105.0

brj · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 08:27 pm »

Art's system is described at the beginning of this thread, which also provides a great deal more comentary on the LS6s.

arthurs · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 08:29 pm »

Thanks for saving me the typing Brian!

brj · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Jan 2007, 08:34 pm »

The question is, how many cables are you going to go through between now and the amp comparison?

Let me know when you've got the tube traps finished - I'll wander by and take some pictures for you and... ummm.... test them for you!

(With music - not frequency sweeps!!)

Occam · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 Jan 2007, 02:05 am »

Danny,

Visiting the thread that describes Authur's system, I notice that he uses a BPT 3.5 Signature Plus balanced power conditioner. I doubt that many audiophiles likely to purchase an under $3k amplifier is likely to power it via a $3k power conditioner.

I think getting the highest quality sound signal by using esoteric source and preamp (and even powering them through the BPT) and high quality cables is fine, and the same goes for listening to it through a high resolution speakers, since it is all going to be pretty equal, but the AC is another 'branch of the tree', and we can't make any assumptions about what the user will have sitting on that branch. Think of it this way, the amps aren't going to compensate for another system component, but using such an expensive and high quality power conditioner is going to mask a significant intrinsic quality of of the amplifiers themselves.

I realize that powering the amps directly plugged into the wall is going to give an unfair advantage to Vinnie's SLA powered amp, but looking at overall system costs and what power conditioning (if any) is likely to be in a system with $1.5-3K in power amplification, I think it would be a better reflection of what is most likely.

FWIW,
Paul

Danny Richie · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Jan 2007, 02:22 am »

Paul,

I have an even better one in my system. I have a Dodd Audio balanced power supply.

I had it here last year for last years digital amp comparison too. My DAC and transport were plugged into it.

See the system I used last year: http://www.gr-research.com/amps/gear.shtm

But as noted, none of the amps were powered through the balanced power supply. They were all plugged straight into the wall with high quality power cords.

Even the battery powered T-amp that did so well last year was plugged into a wall wart.

We'll do the same this year too.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #34 on:** 25 Jan 2007, 02:38 am »

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Vinnie's SLA powered amp

I am still hoping that Vinnie can send one.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #35 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 05:02 pm »

Some new thoughts here.

We have a good handful of guys (serious audiophiles) in the Fort Worth area that will be reviewing gear for Stereo Mojo. These same guys will be attending and being judges at the head to head comparison held at Art's place.

We have asked that these amps arrive here several weeks in advance to make sure all is working properly and to get a good handle on any details that we need to know about when quickly connecting and disconnecting the amps.

I will add that last year we had the amps powered up all the time and shorted the inputs with a resistive load to keep them warmed up and ready so that there would be no issues with any amps not being warmed up.

Okay, since amps will be here and reviewers are here, I think it would be good to supplement the blind head to head comparisons with reviews of the amps that involve several of the reviewers spending time with each amp and getting a more long term feel for each unit.

Some amp manufacturers might even be willing to allow their amps to stay a week or two after the event to allow more of the reviewers to have one on one time with their amps.

I'd like to get some feedback on this from the amp manufacturers and the reviewers.

On a different note. If anyone in the area or if any one is willing to send amps from CI Audio or Red Wine Audio please let me know. Neither of them are going to be able to have amps ready to send in time for this event.

The rest of the line up is looking pretty good. I'll announce all the participants in a couple of weeks (maybe next week). There are still a couple of maybe's, but it's a good line up of participants.

PaulHilgeman · « **Reply #36 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 05:10 pm »

I will ship mine out express on the 19th of February. I know this is a touch late, but it should still allow a week and a half of 'warm up time'

.

Yeah, keep it for a few weeks after, two is fine by me.

-Paul

JDarby - Stereomojo.com · « **Reply #37 on:** 30 Jan 2007, 06:32 pm »

Hello Gentlemen!

This is going to be great. We are very excited and grateful to Danny for his support.
i just got another commitment yesterday from Sonneteer and May Audio. They have an amp called the Bronte
that is a...are you ready...150 wpc class T!

Danny and I were just discuassing why nobody has come out with a hi-watt class T, but here it is.
From a name company, too.

We also have the first new version of the NuForce IA7 integrated in the States.

Also, the Trends Audio class T.
Read about it here: http://www.trendsaudio.com/EN/Product/TA-10_desc.htm

I'll send my Sonic Impact Super T as well.

I don't know if I'll be able to send the Halcro MC-20 or not. Its being compared in a couple of different reviews I'm working on.

I just wish I could be in Texas for this. I envy you lucky panel members.

James Darby

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #38 on:** 31 Jan 2007, 03:31 am »

I am looking forward to reading about this one!!!! Way more then the TAS roundtable a while back. I thought that one was bit errr "lacking."

My two cents is you must have a redwine signature unit to audition.

Milehighguy · « **Reply #39 on:** 31 Jan 2007, 06:04 am »

Speaking of TAS, I got the new copy, and there is a rave review of the new Rotel digital 7 channel 100 watt per channel amp, the RMB-1077. There is also a 2 channel version that was recently announced at CES, the RB-1072, suggested price is $899. It would be good if that one could be included in the comparisons.