[daj]

OMG, just noticed that this circle is actually set up by and for a cable manufacturer, not audiophiles. It hadn't even occur ed to me that an audio forum would have manufacturers ensconced at the top level. Forget my questions. My last post, here.

[DSK]

...For the few that are still not be completely taken in, it is not possible that the last few feet of power wire can have any impact compared to hundreds of miles of power company wire and transformers and switches and contactors and junctions, the home wall wiring, circuit breakers, and junctions, where the audio gear is already protected by actual circuitry, not just wire, in the form of regulated power supplies that reject power disturbances, and built-in power filters and surge suppressors that soak up transients and noise. It's simply not possible, like filling your tank with gasoline from a blue hose instead of a black one can not make your car run better. A person can easily be convinced that the blue hose has this effect, but that doesn't alter the reality.

Let's say it is possible, but modern physics can not explain it. Where's the neutral data from double blind A/B testing? We're not going to find any, because this is precisely the type of spurious effect that proves that one can seem to hear things that are not real. Recognizing the truth of this type of effect is how you maintain a sense that your ears are fallible. This is how one maintains a sense of reality and guards against exploitation.

How incredibly arrogant and naive of you to declare that you are right and everyone else is wrong, completely taken in, at odds with reality, and exploited.

Until approx 8 years ago, I felt the same way. I couldn't understand how the last few feet of cable could effect anything and therefore wasn't prepared to spend good money on power cords. However, not having the science and A/B testing experience to prove to myself that I was right, I certainly didn't go on a crusade to save all the gullible audiophiles.

I was given the opportunity to audition (free of charge or obligation) a fellow audiophile's aftermarket power cord in my system for a week. There was no pressure, he was not there. There were no preconceptions. In fact, I strongly believed I would hear no difference. However, blindfolded, I could pick the difference every time. Approx 4 years ago, I underwent a similar audition on another cord with the same results. Again, I had reasons for believing that the test cord would be inferior to my then reference cord. Again it was undeniably superior. In between, I have tried other power cords that sounded no different, or I "thought" I could hear a difference but could not reliably pick it every time blindfolded.

I will not disagree that the pricing on some aftermarket power cords is ridiculously high. And, I will not disagree that a lot of power cords sound alike. I do disagree that all audiophiles who buy aftermarket power cords have bundles of spare cash to throw around on unresearched purchases (yes, I realise a poster below you implied this). Many of these people thoroughly test the cord in their system before deciding that there is sufficient improvement to warrant the expense. These are not morons who have been "taken in" and need saving. I suspect that most (including myself) do not understand the reasons why a power cord can sound different, but they are open minded and have run the experiment and heard the results, consistently. Their financial position will surely impact their decision on whether to buy or not, but the fact is that they heard the difference.

Have you bothered to test a variety of aftermarket power cables in a high resolution system yourself before embarking on your crusade to save the gullible audiophile? I would hope that you have at least done this but heard no differences. Now, if I responded in the same vein as you, I would make a bold statement along the lines of your hearing and/or your system is inferior and that is why you could not hear any differences. However, I do not know you or your system and I wasn't present during any such tests to hear for myself what you may have heard. So, I would not be so arrogant as to make such rash and unfounded statements.

You suggest that, because differences cannot be currently measured, that there can be no differences. Do you therefore also believe that all amplifiers that share common measurements, sound identical?

I have no problem with you having and sharing your own opinion, whether it is well based or not. What I find offensive is that you declare it as fact and imply that anyone believing (through their own experiences) otherwise is a gullible twit who has been taken in and needs you to save them. 

I do not want to sidetrack this thread and am not interested in proving that some power cords sound different. Nor do I expect you to prove that they don't. But, don't presume to tell us that we didn't hear what we consistently heard during careful testing, when you weren't even there. I simply ask that, unless you truly do believe yourself to be of superior intelligence and hearing to every audiophile who ever purchased or DIY'd a power cord, you voice your opinions as opinions ...not as irrefutable facts. AC is all about sharing, discussing and learning. The Thought Police are not welcome here.

End of rant. 


Edit: perhaps I should add that I do not own, and have never heard, any Bolder power cables (other than the DC cable from SqueezeBox to PS).

[TomS]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread anyway.  Now back to our scheduled program...

I realized I should have given a rating update based on my later comments so here goes the revised order of (yes, MY personal) preference with comments from my pad of notes:

1) Bolder Summit (either one) - clear window, fast edges, very articulate bass
2) Harmonix Studio Master X-DC - more transparent, up front, and cleaner bass than Z1 which is good for me.  Goes just too far over the edge of rightness (edgy) compared to the Bolder.
3) Black Sand Violet Z1 - Good cord at half the price of the others.  I found it actually fares better on my monoblocks than the front end for some reason.
4) MAC Delta - very close to Z1, almost a tie, but more laid back.  very smooth
5) Cardas GR (simply slower and thick)

The Black Sand Silver Rev MK V's are incoming any day now, so I'll do my best to fit it in the rankings.  Unfortunately, I don't have the Summit anymore but I'll give it a shot from my memory and comparing to the Harmonix.

Tom

[zybar]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread anyway.  Now back to our scheduled program...

I realized I should have given a rating update based on my later comments so here goes the revised order of (yes, MY personal) preference with comments from my pad of notes:

1) Bolder Summit (either one) - clear window, fast edges, very articulate bass
2) Harmonix Studio Master X-DC - more transparent, up front, and cleaner bass than Z1 which is good for me.  Goes just too far over the edge of rightness (edgy) compared to the Bolder.
3) Black Sand Violet Z1 - Good cord at half the price of the others.  I found it actually fares better on my monoblocks than the front end for some reason.
4) MAC Delta - very close to Z1, almost a tie, but more laid back.  very smooth
5) Cardas GR (simply slower and thick)

The Black Sand Silver Rev MK V's are incoming any day now, so I'll do my best to fit it in the rankings.  Unfortunately, I don't have the Summit anymore but I'll give it a shot from my memory and comparing to the Harmonix.

Tom

Tom,

I will be comparing Wayne's power cords with the Black Sand Silver Max MK V and Violet Z2.  I'll try and get some listening in this weekend, after I get back from Cork.

George

[TomS]

I'll wave to you as I fly by on my way to Cork on Tuesday 

[yo2tup]

i just got a virtual dynamics master 3.0 power cable to try out  aa .....there's something not right about a power cable that retails for more than the cost of the modded sb3/ultimate ps/summit dc.     i'm going to let it burn in then compare it with the black sand silver ref mkV.   

[yo2tup]

Thank you for resurrecting this thread anyway.  Now back to our scheduled program...

I realized I should have given a rating update based on my later comments so here goes the revised order of (yes, MY personal) preference with comments from my pad of notes:

1) Bolder Summit (either one) - clear window, fast edges, very articulate bass
2) Harmonix Studio Master X-DC - more transparent, up front, and cleaner bass than Z1 which is good for me.  Goes just too far over the edge of rightness (edgy) compared to the Bolder.
3) Black Sand Violet Z1 - Good cord at half the price of the others.  I found it actually fares better on my monoblocks than the front end for some reason.
4) MAC Delta - very close to Z1, almost a tie, but more laid back.  very smooth
5) Cardas GR (simply slower and thick)

The Black Sand Silver Rev MK V's are incoming any day now, so I'll do my best to fit it in the rankings.  Unfortunately, I don't have the Summit anymore but I'll give it a shot from my memory and comparing to the Harmonix.

Tom

Tom,

I will be comparing Wayne's power cords with the Black Sand Silver Max MK V and Violet Z2.  I'll try and get some listening in this weekend, after I get back from Cork.

George

any updates? 

[TomS]

As I said, I don't have the Summit here anymore so can't say much more about it other than it was clearly the best of the cords I tried at the time, at least on the SB Ultimate.  I definitely could live with it for a long time.

I have since replaced all four of my cords with the Black Sand Silver MK V's.  The difference vs. the remaining cords is rather overwhelming, so I didn't bother to do much more than a few passing comparisons on the Ultimate PS.  Sorry, just not enough time lately.

Here are my comments with ALL 4 of them in the system together (from my notes):
- The bass extension seems to go even deeper than before and there is a distinctness around each instrument in the bass that just is not there in the Z1 or the X-DC.
- An "edge" in the upper mids that I assumed was all of my associated gear (mostly the BEL's) and the Merlins' Esotar just being ruthlessly revealing is now gone and it is totally smoothed out.   This is the most significant change by far.
- It's sweeter and more liquid in a way that doesn't leave all the inner detail off the table too.
- The music flows much better from loud to soft and back to loud again where called for.

In total fairness to the Summit, I'd be willing to bet that with the other 3 Black Sands in the system, and the Summit on the Ultimate, it would be very, very close to the Black Sand.

Both the Summit and the Silver Refs are extraordinarily good cords.  The BS does have the practical advantage that it is not limited in the current rating, so can be used on power amps and conditioners as well.  I think the Summit is limited to about 3 amps so will work on most any front end component.

Zybar has them both on hand now, so he's in the best position to compare those 2 directly.  Just give him a little time to sort it out.

[anthony a.]

any updates on this thread?

[Wayne1]

The power cables have moved on to a few different folks. They have met up with the demo Burson Buffer and should now be in CA.

The feedback I have been getting is that the Summit cables are very nice, but that most of the people who have compared them to the Black Sand Silver Reference MK V have preferred the Black Sand.

This was only between the Black Sand Silver Reference MK V ($500.00) and the Summit ($500.00).

I recently reordered the Silver wire I use in the Summit and found that the price had been raised roughly 80%. There is no way I could offer the Summit AC cable for $500.00 any longer. So, I am not going to make any more of them. The four that I made will be sold at a reduced price and that will be it.

I will still offer the Summit DC cable, but the price will be quite a bit more than the current price.

For those that do not care to spend $500.00 or more on a power cable, I do feel the Nitro is a great cable for the money.