Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

1000a · « **Reply #1740 on:** 23 May 2007, 06:52 am »

link to black hole pad, google turned up nothing

http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=damping-bhp

rollo · « **Reply #1741 on:** 23 May 2007, 10:12 am »

1000a,
Yes the power supplies are 27"x13" [ 2 ] and the mono blocks don't know yet . The total weight is close to 200lbs. This thing should be something else. More later.

rollo

Whitese · « **Reply #1742 on:** 23 May 2007, 12:43 pm »

Now, if I sell all my gear, will I be able to afford them amp?

gooberdude · « **Reply #1743 on:** 23 May 2007, 02:12 pm »

Hey Guys, i'll try & post a pic later but i have to remove my TVC from the mount and disconnect wires due to its position. its a hassle...

In order to damp the trannies with Black Hole Pad you'll need 1 strip of BHP 1" wide x 12" long. The $7 piece sold at Speaker City is 12" x 18"...enough to tweak about 20 TVC's. So, someone grab a sheet & share but be forewarned, its addictive. This stuff was designed to go underneath transformers & reduce vibes from entering chassis. I did this on a pair of tube monoblocks recently and the results were incredible. so far though, i've only placed it on the TVC trannies. I will, however, put a layer under the trannies and Source Selector switch mount once i receive more.

I've used several damping materials for audio uses: adhesive backed felt, Dynamat Xtreme, Dynamat orig & 2 difft mass loaded vinyl proudcts from EAR. NONE of them are musical, they simply damp. BHP was engineered for musical damping. BHP should be thought of in the same light as Marigo VTS damping products...they both work extremely well for this hobby.

You will cut the 1" W x 12" long strip of BHP into 6 equal pieces and then remove the adhesive backing and attach to each side of each transformers metal shield (the shield is metal sided). You do NOT want to put BHP on any of the wires or the actual transformer itself...just on the 3 sides of each transformer that have the metal shielding. be careul, but this takes just a minute or 2.

At that point you may want to attach ground wires to the trannie's but leave them 'unplugged' to get used to what damping the trannies does. then, as the final piece of the puzzle attach the GRND wires to a GRND lug or any Neutral plug ( - ) on an unused outlet...and grab a beer.

BHP is difft than mass loaded vinyl 'cuz they are difft. i'm no engineer but you can call the firms that make both products & ask them raj. After using mass loaded vinyl on my dishwasher & in-between my stacked washer/dryer for clothes I can say with 100% certainly that the 2 products are difft.
I can't state that both are not constrained layer vinyl damping material though!!! they are wildly difft in performance...

matt

F-100 · « **Reply #1744 on:** 23 May 2007, 03:43 pm »

Hey Matt,
Did you use any Ebony wood under the trannies too?

I'm in the process of transplanting one of my TVC to an aluminum case. I'm thinking of applying BHP on a piece of Ebony wood (2" x 6" x .5"), and then put the tranny on top of them. What do you think of this configuration?

Thanks

gooberdude · « **Reply #1745 on:** 23 May 2007, 04:07 pm »

Hey,

I think ebony wood under the trannies is a very good thing. Rollo had the idea of buying a few Ebony pen blanks and mounting the trannies on them, like stilts. this would raise them above the lid of the TVC though.

A plank of Ebony would probably do the same. I'd get 2 small Ebony planks, 1 for each tranny so they are isloated, and also attend to the Source Switch if its mounted on the floor of the chassis.

What might be cool is to have both BHP and Ebony, and trade-off between them (A-B test). it might take a week of listening each way to get a handle on the effects... after finding the right mounting, then add BHP to the trannies themselves. then test it all over again!

ANY time we are dealing with damping in this hobby (and probably any other!) the point is to control vibrations. There are only 2 schools of thought i'm aware of...either you stop the vibes at the source (trap/isolate them) which is what damping/isolation does OR you direct them to another location, which is Mapleshade's take on vibration control. Changing the frequency (hopefully lowering it) is also the goal, maybe THE goal, but attempting to trap/damp/isolate is really the same thing as doing this...

I use both, but don't understand either!

On some gear, both methods are employed...like the TVC and my BPT power strip.

matt

guest1632 · « **Reply #1746 on:** 23 May 2007, 04:27 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 6 May 2007, 05:23 pm

1000a,
Thanks for the nice words. I would say that the two box TVC is 25% better than single box. Basically the soundstage is larger, deeper and wider with more space between instruments. Air and decay of notes goes to two box version Tonality is about the same with the two box just edging out the single box in the bass and midrange area. Top end is extended on both. Dynamics are about equal, edge going to two box.
If I were you I would opt for Dual Mono single box and save a few pennies. If you listen to rock or pop go with copper wire. If you are big on Jazz and classical go silver.
By the way I thought I was the only one still left who likes tone controls. Good man. So instead I use ICs to dial in the sound I prefer.
Mag. wire sounds very interesting. I have copper Anti-Cables and they are very good. My reference IC is Harmonix Golden Performance. Tough to beat IMO, but not cheap unfortunately. I also use Tara Decade [5 Mtr. ] from pre to amp. No complaints. I bought the Monster on a whim. As you said the top may be a tad rounded but I can listen all day long with no fatigue. Tonight I will compare Promitheus silver against Monster.
Now chasing your own tail and coming full circle is a good thing. Tutorial and funIMO. We must try as many as we can. Not looking to see which is better. There is no " better " cable IMO, synergy is the thing. Which is system dependent and subjective to the listener. Period.
So, have fun trying and by all means ENJOY THE MUSUC and jump on the good ship Promitheus.

cheers
rollo

Hey Rollo,

Where's those cables? I should have my bamp up and running in a day or so. Want to put them in between amp and TVC.

Ray Bronk

guest1632 · « **Reply #1747 on:** 23 May 2007, 04:38 pm »

Quote from: Early B. on 8 May 2007, 11:52 am

Quote from: GHM on 8 May 2007, 02:32 am
Quote from: PromitheusAudio link=topic=31621.msg#msg date=
F-100

No problem at the back of mind i remember reading one your emails. BUt somehow from there to just now seems vague. I occasionally forget things due to either to the numerous work or the solder fumes. So just buzz me to remind me would be great

On the active preamp, it will start the tour off in Georgia. Sending out the active preamp tomorrow. First off will be to Frederick Washington and i guess gymnae will pop by(like your new avatar, you old one was gave me headache). The rest who would like to have a go at the unit let me know so that i can arrange the transportation from there once frederick is done.
Cheers
nicholas

Hi Nicholas, Would like to try the active preamp. Then I can finally experience all this tube stuff everyone talks about.

Ray Bronk

I'm sure earlyB and a few others will get a listen here as well. There are quite a few of us in Georgia that own the Promitheus TVC.

Oh YES!!! I'm right here in Georgia and I'd love to hear the active preamp on system. In fact, I was the first one to sign up for the demo several months ago when it was first introduced, so Nick, you gotta send two of them to Georgia. My friend also has your TVC, so we can both check it out and write mini-reviews of it here. Nick, please include a pair of your interconnects in the package as well.

Let the road show begin!!!

guest1632 · « **Reply #1748 on:** 23 May 2007, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: 1000a on 23 May 2007, 06:52 am

link to black hole pad, google turned up nothing

http://www.speakercity.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SC&Product_Code=damping-bhp

Hi all, If anyone has it looks like a 1 inch by 12 inch piece left over, wouldn't mind paying the $7 and a few bucks for shipping.

Ray

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #1749 on:** 23 May 2007, 06:35 pm »

F100 and Gooberdude,

I have planted a sheet of aluminum (not the mixed metal one) under the output transformers in my active preamp and they take out the vibration successfully. What you can do is to raise the trannies off the bottom plate and put both of them on a thick aluminum plate (5mm) which will be isolated by the brass screws. This kind of tweak would take out the vibration perfectly, too.

Tan

Harmon · « **Reply #1750 on:** 24 May 2007, 12:11 am »

When using this black hole pad if you want to remove it at some time in the future does it leave any glue on the surface where it was used? Thanks

rollo · « **Reply #1751 on:** 24 May 2007, 12:56 am »

Hey Guys,
Once the Black Hole pad is applied it is on for good. Go for it . It is a no brain er. Just cut 3 strips wide enough to cover sides and top. Install sides first flush with top. Then cut third piece so it covers side pieces as well
. Now here is the secret. Put the top plate back on. When you tighten screws you will notice top is not flush as before since BHP raises height of trannie a bit. So when you tighten screws down in affect you are applying pressure on trannie. Sort of like what Richard Green used to sell. Remember the equip rack where you could apply pressure on component by tightening clamps. Very affective in reducing any remaining vibrations of trannie.
You will love the improvement in bass. If you think the TVc is quiet now. Wait. More information comes through so things like imaging, air, decay are more prevalent.
Oh you guys with SS CDPs the buffer actually works better before TVC as we have found. Give it a try and judge for yourself. Try it anyway you may be surprised. With TVC after Buffer there is a better impedance seen by Amp, so its worth a try.
On the Buffer the change of bypass caps to Teflon V-caps is a must. Nicholas will be offering the upgrade at a special price for caps. All you need to do is solder 8 easy connections. If I can do it you can to. A piece of cake. This is a major improvement. Its see through with that old tube magic. Not dark, colored or laid back. You will hear new information on familiar recordings you think you know. Especially the harmonics second and THIRD. I could not believe I heard the third harmonic on a Horowitz solo piano recording. Goose bumps man.
Well rec'd my passport today. Malaysia her I come. I have a feeling this trip is going to cost me some audio money when I visit Nicholas. Lets see GM70 amp, DAC, phono stage, lots of ebony cones, Statement dual mono double "C" core TVC [ when available ]. I am in trouble already.

Have Fun
rollo

gooberdude · « **Reply #1752 on:** 24 May 2007, 04:11 pm »

I've found that BHP is easier to remove than Dynamat Xtreme...its not nearly as sticky. I haven't tried to remove either after a few days though.

With the BHP, you'll hear the change almost instantly. it won't take but an album or 2 to know if you like what it does...at that point you should be able to remove with little effort. If any sticky stuff is left over, use Goo Gone to remove it.

have fun Rollo, please tell Nick hello for me.

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1753 on:** 25 May 2007, 10:58 pm »

i've just found a IC cable that works shockingly good with promitheus.

chord signature with a special shielding/grounding wires.

unfortunately it costs almost double of the TVC.

but it really rocks - speed, clarity and precision to dream of.

rollo · « **Reply #1754 on:** 27 May 2007, 10:50 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 25 May 2007, 10:58 pm

I've just found a IC cable that works shockingly good with promitheus.

chord signature with a special shielding/grounding wires.

unfortunately it costs almost double of the TVC.

but it really rocks - speed, clarity and precision to dream of.

You are not the only one using exotic cables. I am using Harmonix Golden Performance at four times the amount. I believe the key here is the shield and drain wire. Magnetic fields appear to have an adverse effect on the TVC and associated ICs for some reason. ERS paper anyone?
I have been experimenting with ERS paper inside enclosure to imitate the S&B Mu metal surrounds for trannies. IMO the ERS paper was a positive tweak. The sound has a bit more authority and absolutely dead quite. Before I always felt the Music First had a slight edge in the flesh on the bone category. Not anymore buckaroos. The ERS paper is $20 per sheet, you will need two. Micro and macro detail has improved along with extended decay and air. Never the strongest part of the TVC. Now, its a different ballgame.
The Promitheus has bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth the MF throws a curveball and ERS hits the game winner.

So far the three tweaks that improved performance are; black hole pad on trannies and entire bottom plate with top plate untreated, ERS paper [ interior, all sides,top and bottom and grounding trannies to wall outlet screw. The next one up is use of ebony cones. Separating the signal wires from the plastic ties was a good move as well. IMO signal wires should not be bunched together [ RCA to Trannie ].

rollo

akmal00 · « **Reply #1755 on:** 28 May 2007, 02:09 pm »

Quote from: Whitese on 5 May 2007, 03:36 pm

dang, i will have to order a Ref dual mono again with the tube active....

Anyone tried his phono?

I have just read through more than 15 pages. Haven't opened up this forum for a long time due to work. So far I have used Promitheus phono pre for 8 months. Mine is the first version with black steel body but everything is the same. I have used it with two separate TT, first the Clearaudio emotion and currently the Garrard 301. It definitely a great phono pre. Follows in the same line as the TVC. Musicality is one of it's strength. I have used three different cartridges. Currently using an old Audiotechnica MM and the Benz Micro Ace. This needs a flexible phono stage to handle the different gain. It definitely will work well with a good TT/ cartridge and feeding into a TVC/ active pre. Compared it to the Dynavector P75 and a Lehmann's black cube, loved the Promitheus better. Now that it is in the reference version, must be better. I don't know what's the current casing is currently. However as is the TVC system synergy is important. Never found anything better for the price.

That's the phonostage besides the TVC. I am satisfied so far. Next stop for me a custom made plinth for my Garrard and then the active pre.

guest1632 · « **Reply #1756 on:** 28 May 2007, 02:42 pm »

Quote from: 1000a on 1 May 2007, 10:07 pm

Followed your comments on the Anti-cables along with others, I just finished hooking up my DIY bass run to make it a biwire job after a week+ of single run. IMS it out did single run easily. That stuff is off the scale incredible, completely and utterly blows away my Cat5 biwire DIY job. Unless people have very deep pockets mag wire should definitly be experimented with, cheap as dirt. Also did ICs blew away PS Audio extreme statments with 1.00 rat shack solderless RCAs!!! I will never by another IC or speaker cable, its too easy to make my own. If any are curiuos I'll post my designs on a new thread.

If anyone knows the Phono amp output/imput #s needed by the TVC, please post.

thanks

Hi 1000A, could you PM me with the receipe for your DIY IIC's? Thanks.

Ray Bronk

guest1632 · « **Reply #1757 on:** 28 May 2007, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: PromitheusAudio on 9 May 2007, 03:42 pm

Quote from: 1000a on 9 May 2007, 10:44 am
Gooberdude

I will place a thread and photos of the room lens later this week or weekend.
I had seen that Jon Risch piece before - I studied it well to build mine, thanks for the heads up.

Where is Nick- working

Hi Nick,

Hey i noticed the other day when I opened up my TVC, that one of the U-Shaped brackets holding the trafo is very loose. I had thought about seeing if I could just remove it. How do I tighten it down to the transformer itself. Then I'll be able to ground the trafo to the third post on my wall outlet.

Also, mind did not come with any "feet". Also, can I buy just the Ebony knobs? I'll need two of them.

Ray Bronk

Yup, working. I work all long hours from 8 to 2 am or 3 am. All work and no play yet

guest1632 · « **Reply #1758 on:** 28 May 2007, 05:11 pm »

Quote from: gooberdude on 10 May 2007, 01:55 pm

Very cool Rollo, thanks for the info... Rat Shack's best-normal spooled speaker wire? that's easy enough to find. I might grab some of their anti-cable like wire too and try some braiding.

i've been contemplating buying a soldering station & taking a lesson or 2 also, maybe this will be the impetus.

aa

Hey Gooberdude,

Make you a deal you can pass up. PM me your address, and I'll send you a soldering station. Send me about $15 to cover shipping.

What happened was I thought I burned out my soldering station. Turnes out that after I took apart the iron and shook out whatever little nasties were in there, put it together and wahlah, it works! I had already ordered a new one. So I don't need this one any more. So I might as well help someone else.

Ray Bronk

richidoo · « **Reply #1759 on:** 28 May 2007, 09:44 pm »

I usually try to read the whole thread before I put my foot in my mouth, but on this thread that ain't gonna happen. I've read a lot of it though, great fun!

Been learning a lot about TVCs this week, about the different sources of trannys, etc. Do these Promitheous transformers compare well to those by Silk, Slagle autoformers, maybe others available that I don't know about. I might DIY if better iron available. Otherwise, Promitheous great price and you guys have convinced me it will sound great.

Thanks
Rich

Promitheus TVC passive preamp anyone?

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