Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?

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Jaytor

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #160 on: 24 Apr 2024, 01:11 pm »
Earlier in the month I bought an Ayre KX-R Twenty preamp.  I am extremely happy with it.  I had the KX-5 Twenty prior to this, and a friend talked me into selling it to him.  It is also excellent.

That's a pretty cool looking unit. Bet it sounds great!

DanM88

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #161 on: 25 Apr 2024, 03:23 pm »
Hey guys, I'm new here and just ordered an NX Studio to build. Does anyone have experience matching these speakers with an Anthem STR? Or should I look into tubes?

richidoo

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #162 on: 25 Apr 2024, 06:23 pm »
Welcome to AudioCircle, Dan!

STR amp has plenty of power for NX Studio. It is relatively neutral, and should be a good match, imo.

DanM88

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #163 on: 25 Apr 2024, 07:22 pm »
Welcome to AudioCircle, Dan!

STR amp has plenty of power for NX Studio. It is relatively neutral, and should be a good match, imo.


Thank you!  I'm excited to start the build and I can't wait to hear these speakers!

jmimac351

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #164 on: 26 Apr 2024, 12:39 am »
Did you notice an improvement from your other preamp?  It is one of the nicest preamps I have seen.

I think it is better than the KX-5 Twenty, but the difference in price does not reflect the difference in performance - at all.  In fact, it was because the KX-5 Twenty was so good that I had confidence in getting the KX-R Twenty.  The differences are mostly due to higher cost parts. Apparently the resistors are much more expensive than the ones in the KX-5 Twenty.  And there is another important difference... the input switching is done the same way as the volume.  It's a more "direct" way of doing it compared to the KX-5 Twenty.  Ayre is very friendly / shares details about the design of the product.  Great guys.

BrandonB

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #165 on: 26 Apr 2024, 07:50 am »
I think it is better than the KX-5 Twenty, but the difference in price does not reflect the difference in performance - at all.  In fact, it was because the KX-5 Twenty was so good that I had confidence in getting the KX-R Twenty.  The differences are mostly due to higher cost parts. Apparently the resistors are much more expensive than the ones in the KX-5 Twenty.  And there is another important difference... the input switching is done the same way as the volume.  It's a more "direct" way of doing it compared to the KX-5 Twenty.  Ayre is very friendly / shares details about the design of the product.  Great guys.
You are getting that last 5%.

BrandonB

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #166 on: 6 May 2024, 02:14 am »
I think it is better than the KX-5 Twenty, but the difference in price does not reflect the difference in performance - at all.  In fact, it was because the KX-5 Twenty was so good that I had confidence in getting the KX-R Twenty.  The differences are mostly due to higher cost parts. Apparently the resistors are much more expensive than the ones in the KX-5 Twenty.  And there is another important difference... the input switching is done the same way as the volume.  It's a more "direct" way of doing it compared to the KX-5 Twenty.  Ayre is very friendly / shares details about the design of the product.  Great guys.

I am leaning towards getting an Ayre QX-5 twenty DAC.  It has the volume control, so I don't have to get a preamp immediately.  I talked to Jake at Ayre and he said they are coming out with a streamer soon but he didn't know there would be a noticeable difference in sound  from the Ethernet card.  He actually mentioned that without me asking.  People in the forums really like the Ayre gear. 

Jaytor

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #167 on: 26 Sep 2024, 08:02 pm »
I am finally finished (at least for now) with my new preamp build. I started this project almost three years ago, and have built five different circuits for the tube line stage - the first two being John Broskie's Aikido designs, and the last three being my own designs.





This build is a fully balanced (differential) design. I'm using relay-based input selection and a balanced relay-switched stepped-attenuator. These are implemented using AMB.org delta 1 and 2 boards, but the control is done with an Arduino processor with my own software so I could use a TFT display and custom IR remote control. The code also controls power sequencing and an output trigger for my power amps.

The stepped attenuator is implemented with Vishay Z-foil series resistors and Audio Note silver tantalum shunt resistors.

There are actually two separate line stages - one is opamp based using AMB.org alpha 24 (A24) boards to drive my woofer towers, and the other is my own differential tube design. The A24 boards are powered by a Neurochrome Preamp power supply which provides a very low noise +/- supply.

The tube circuit is powered by independent custom Toroidy transformers for each channel, fed with a Neurochrome Smart Soft Start. The transformer outputs are filtered with a CRCRC circuit which then feeds a shunt regulator based on DIYAudio contributor Salas's SSHV2 circuit and implemented with my own custom PCBs. The shunt regulator voltage is 200V and is set up to supply ~28mA for the tube circuit.

The tube line stage that I finally settled on uses a pair of 6SN7 tubes, each with their sections paralleled, in a differential circuit. The cathodes are loaded with independent cascoded BJT current sources, with a resistor tying the cathodes together. This allows me to optimize the DC balance and reduce the gain a bit (to 13db) to better match the rest of my system. The anodes are loaded with a Lundahl LL1660 push-pull output transformer with a Nanocrystalline core in a 2.25+2.25:1 configuration. This circuit uses no global feedback.

Is that Attenuator in the second picture a really high end attenuator?  It is the same that is used in a preamp I'm looking at purchasing.
Brandon - I was reading through this thread and realized that I never answered your question from earlier this year - sorry. My previous preamp uses a Khozmo relay-switched attenuator. This is a nicely design circuit and I would consider it fairly high-end. It doesn't use the most exotic resistors in the signal path, but uses nice sounding ones. Much nicer than the typical Alps conductive plastic potentiometer used in many commercial preamps. I used an Audio Note silver tantalum as the final shunt resistor.


mkrawcz

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #168 on: 26 Sep 2024, 08:09 pm »
Jaytor, that’s awesome! I’m about to work on my first real DIY preamp. The new Iron pre SMD balanced.

Jaytor

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #169 on: 26 Sep 2024, 10:13 pm »
Jaytor, that’s awesome! I’m about to work on my first real DIY preamp. The new Iron pre SMD balanced.
That should make a nice preamp. Good luck with it.

jmimac351

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #170 on: 27 Sep 2024, 12:14 am »
I am leaning towards getting an Ayre QX-5 twenty DAC.  It has the volume control, so I don't have to get a preamp immediately.  I talked to Jake at Ayre and he said they are coming out with a streamer soon but he didn't know there would be a noticeable difference in sound  from the Ethernet card.  He actually mentioned that without me asking.  People in the forums really like the Ayre gear.

Brandon, I ended up getting a QX-5 Twenty recently.  I had an Ayre QB-9 Twenty as well, and wondered how it would compare SQ wise (the QX-5 is much more flexible).  I've spoken to Jake at Ayre quite a bit and trusted his advice to get it, based on other stuff I have.  Anyway, it's friggin' awesome.  Incredible clarity.  I mean - Incredible.  I wanted to "hear" the QX-5, so I pulled the KX-R Twenty and using the QX-5 Twenty as Preamp / DAC into Ayre MX-R monos, or Ayre VX-5 Twenty.  I'll probably put the KX-R Twenty back in over the weekend.  Really curious to hear what happens... I've tried "going direct" before with not preamp with RME ADI-2/4 Pro.  It was REALLY good, but not as good as having my KX-5 Preamp or KX-R preamp in. 

A great preamp is additive, in my experience, for overall presence and dynamics.  Good conversation here and different ways of getting to great sound.  I think this stuff has something important in common though... it's DIFFERENT than the stuff designed to be flashy and talk very little about what's inside.  I sometimes wonder how many bother to look into what's INSIDE the equipment, how is it designed, what's the philosophy (do they even have a philosophy other thank flashy casework?),

"How is this amp different than some other solid state amp, besides the marketing materials?"

Notwithstanding any of that, if you want something turn key, that will sound incredible... pickup a QX-5 Twenty and VX-5 Twenty.  I think both can be had for ~$10k (used / finding deals) and it can be end game stuff - I think the VX-5 Twenty is that good.  The VX-8 may also be a great fit, but if you have interest in QX-5 Twenty, I'd get it.  Also, and mentioned before, the VX-5 Twenty (and VX-8) has modules available you can insert for High Pass.  It's a very small cap value.  Vandersteen does this with their speakers and likes Ayre equipment.  They use 100Hz, but I'm sure Ayre will put whatever you want on there. In fact, might not be a bad idea to contact Danny about those small Sonicaps he has.  I have 2 different pairs of them from Danny to target 100Hz and 160Hz - in case I wanted to use an outboard box.  I think Danny likes the high pass under 100Hz, so I'll probably pick up a batch to try that as well.

This is the high pass module. You'll see the value is .0015uF, which yields 100Hz. That's because the input impedance of several Ayre amps is 2Mohm (balanced) - 1Mohm per leg.  So, the cap can be very small and a high quality cap is very affordable.

Anyway, I keep spending money on this gear and speaker stuff from Texas and it keeps getting better - why change?  Now I need to hear a ribbon tweeter cross at 1Khz. :thumb: 

« Last Edit: 27 Sep 2024, 01:35 am by jmimac351 »

morganc

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #171 on: 27 Sep 2024, 02:11 am »
I am finally finished (at least for now) with my new preamp build. I started this project almost three years ago, and have built five different circuits for the tube line stage - the first two being John Broskie's Aikido designs, and the last three being my own designs.





This build is a fully balanced (differential) design. I'm using relay-based input selection and a balanced relay-switched stepped-attenuator. These are implemented using AMB.org delta 1 and 2 boards, but the control is done with an Arduino processor with my own software so I could use a TFT display and custom IR remote control. The code also controls power sequencing and an output trigger for my power amps.

The stepped attenuator is implemented with Vishay Z-foil series resistors and Audio Note silver tantalum shunt resistors.

There are actually two separate line stages - one is opamp based using AMB.org alpha 24 (A24) boards to drive my woofer towers, and the other is my own differential tube design. The A24 boards are powered by a Neurochrome Preamp power supply which provides a very low noise +/- supply.

The tube circuit is powered by independent custom Toroidy transformers for each channel, fed with a Neurochrome Smart Soft Start. The transformer outputs are filtered with a CRCRC circuit which then feeds a shunt regulator based on DIYAudio contributor Salas's SSHV2 circuit and implemented with my own custom PCBs. The shunt regulator voltage is 200V and is set up to supply ~28mA for the tube circuit.

The tube line stage that I finally settled on uses a pair of 6SN7 tubes, each with their sections paralleled, in a differential circuit. The cathodes are loaded with independent cascoded BJT current sources, with a resistor tying the cathodes together. This allows me to optimize the DC balance and reduce the gain a bit (to 13db) to better match the rest of my system. The anodes are loaded with a Lundahl LL1660 push-pull output transformer with a Nanocrystalline core in a 2.25+2.25:1 configuration. This circuit uses no global feedback.
Brandon - I was reading through this thread and realized that I never answered your question from earlier this year - sorry. My previous preamp uses a Khozmo relay-switched attenuator. This is a nicely design circuit and I would consider it fairly high-end. It doesn't use the most exotic resistors in the signal path, but uses nice sounding ones. Much nicer than the typical Alps conductive plastic potentiometer used in many commercial preamps. I used an Audio Note silver tantalum as the final shunt resistor.

wow.  Stunning quality and build!  I sure wish I had those skills.  Beautiful work.

nlitworld

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #172 on: 27 Sep 2024, 04:47 am »
Jay, that is phenomenal work. Did you DIY your own case as well or was the main enclosure something purchased? That almost looks like a PC case but not quite.

KTS

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #173 on: 27 Sep 2024, 11:09 am »
Jay,
Your builds are amazing! I also wanted to complement your write up, every question I had was answered. Thank you for sharing.


Jaytor

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #174 on: 27 Sep 2024, 03:18 pm »
Thanks guys. This project took a lot longer than expected but I learned a ton and had a lot of fun. It's given me a lot more confidence to do my own circuit designs.

Jay, that is phenomenal work. Did you DIY your own case as well or was the main enclosure something purchased? That almost looks like a PC case but not quite.

I designed the case, but had the panels fabricated by Front Panel Express. I don't have the fabrication and finishing skills that you and others on this forum have, but I can use a CAD program and pay someone else to do it  :D.

mlundy57

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #175 on: 27 Sep 2024, 06:00 pm »
I am finally finished (at least for now) with my new preamp build. I started this project almost three years ago, and have built five different circuits for the tube line stage - the first two being John Broskie's Aikido designs, and the last three being my own designs.





This build is a fully balanced (differential) design. I'm using relay-based input selection and a balanced relay-switched stepped-attenuator. These are implemented using AMB.org delta 1 and 2 boards, but the control is done with an Arduino processor with my own software so I could use a TFT display and custom IR remote control. The code also controls power sequencing and an output trigger for my power amps.

The stepped attenuator is implemented with Vishay Z-foil series resistors and Audio Note silver tantalum shunt resistors.

There are actually two separate line stages - one is opamp based using AMB.org alpha 24 (A24) boards to drive my woofer towers, and the other is my own differential tube design. The A24 boards are powered by a Neurochrome Preamp power supply which provides a very low noise +/- supply.

The tube circuit is powered by independent custom Toroidy transformers for each channel, fed with a Neurochrome Smart Soft Start. The transformer outputs are filtered with a CRCRC circuit which then feeds a shunt regulator based on DIYAudio contributor Salas's SSHV2 circuit and implemented with my own custom PCBs. The shunt regulator voltage is 200V and is set up to supply ~28mA for the tube circuit.

The tube line stage that I finally settled on uses a pair of 6SN7 tubes, each with their sections paralleled, in a differential circuit. The cathodes are loaded with independent cascoded BJT current sources, with a resistor tying the cathodes together. This allows me to optimize the DC balance and reduce the gain a bit (to 13db) to better match the rest of my system. The anodes are loaded with a Lundahl LL1660 push-pull output transformer with a Nanocrystalline core in a 2.25+2.25:1 configuration. This circuit uses no global feedback.
Brandon - I was reading through this thread and realized that I never answered your question from earlier this year - sorry. My previous preamp uses a Khozmo relay-switched attenuator. This is a nicely design circuit and I would consider it fairly high-end. It doesn't use the most exotic resistors in the signal path, but uses nice sounding ones. Much nicer than the typical Alps conductive plastic potentiometer used in many commercial preamps. I used an Audio Note silver tantalum as the final shunt resistor.

This is seriously cool. Is it something you have built just for yourself or are you planning on building these for sale?

Mike

Jaytor

Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #176 on: 27 Sep 2024, 06:46 pm »
This is seriously cool. Is it something you have built just for yourself or are you planning on building these for sale?

Mike

Thanks Mike. Just for myself. I'm happy to share design details (schematics, PCB layout, etc.) with anyone interested in building their own, but I have lots of other projects I want to move on to. I have yet another preamp I am half-way done with (even more sophisticated than this one), a streamer/DAC project that I just need to build the enclosure for, and a couple amp projects I've just started collecting parts for.

jmimac351

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #177 on: 27 Sep 2024, 10:01 pm »
I designed the case, but had the panels fabricated by Front Panel Express. I don't have the fabrication and finishing skills that you and others on this forum have, but I can use a CAD program and pay someone else to do it  :D.

That is very cool indeed.  I thought it was a "boutique product from an OEM I don't know much about".   Really, really nicely done.

So... and asking for a friend (or two), you can take a drawing and put it into "CAD Language to take to a place with CNC machine and cut wood" kind of CAD skills?

How much free pizza and beer can you consume in one sitting?  Maybe you can point me in the direction for the best way to figure out how to do that (if that's not laughable for not understanding how hard it is to do).

mkrawcz

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #178 on: 27 Sep 2024, 10:08 pm »
Thanks Mike. Just for myself. I'm happy to share design details (schematics, PCB layout, etc.) with anyone interested in building their own, but I have lots of other projects I want to move on to. I have yet another preamp I am half-way done with (even more sophisticated than this one), a streamer/DAC project that I just need to build the enclosure for, and a couple amp projects I've just started collecting parts for.
Jay, out of curiosity, what wire did you use going to the XLRs? Looking for some good wire for my Iron pre.

jmimac351

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Re: Solid State or Tubes with your NX-series speakers?
« Reply #179 on: 27 Sep 2024, 10:27 pm »
I am sending my Ayre MX-R monos to be upgraded to the "Twenty" series.  It essentially means they will return as a new (internally), different amps.  The circuit is completely different and uses their latest design language (Diamond Circuit).  The boards / caps are swapped - I think only the transformers remain.

While those are gone, tomorrow morning, I'm picking up a pair of Nelson Pass Amp Camp amps for $350, for the pair (FakeBook Marketplace).  They have very low damping factor and I think it will be interesting to play with them.

I have a "spare" RME ADI-2 DAC FS unit for source that will make dinner and PBJ sammiches, if you want it to.  It does everything, and it sounds really good.  With those 3 things, RME / Pass Monos, I think I will have an entire system setup for $1267 (bought used).  Perhaps it will be of interest to others... you don't "have to spend a lot of money".

I know some of you have played with the Amp Camp amps.  I have heard Danny's "chip amps" and noted one thing in particular about the presentation, and I don't know if it was "amps / front end" or "tweeter" or "new system to me"... all of the above probably. 

Buy Used / Learn / Sell and not get hurt $$$ / Repeat.

Having fun.