GRS-3 vs Neo 3

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #80 on:** 11 Oct 2020, 11:37 pm »

Some more random testing since i had a little time before dinner:
Wing is 11" & near field test is 3" from center of driver.

SPL:

Green: Near+wing Yellow: 1M no wing Magenta: 1M with 11" wing

THD:

Green: Near+Wing Yellow: 1M

HAL · « **Reply #81 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 12:07 am »

Well after 3 days of trying to measure outside with CLIO Pocket version 2.11, here is the best frequency response of the GRS 10" Planar I was able to measure. The planar is mounted in the stock Super Mini Baffle with the measurement mic at 50" from the center of the planar.

The baffle would need mods to mount the GRS planar for a better fit. The GRS 10" planar is slightly larger than the BG NEO10.

The time gate used was ~6mS and no reflections were in that time. The external noise and wind were a big problem with the pressure mic for the log sweep measurement, even though the time window is wide for a quasi-anechoic style measurement.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #82 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 12:33 am »

Quote from: HAL on 16 Oct 2020, 12:07 am

Well after 3 days of trying to measure outside with CLIO Pocket version 2.11, here is the best frequency response of the GRS 10" Planar I was able to measure. The planar is mounted in the stock Super Mini Baffle with the measurement mic at 50" from the center of the planar.

The baffle would need mods to mount the GRS planar for a better fit. The GRS 10" planar is slightly larger than the BG NEO10.

The time gate used was ~6mS and no reflections were in that time. The external noise and wind were a big problem with the pressure mic for the log sweep measurement, even though the time window is wide for a quasi-anechoic style measurement.

I managed to do some outside tests, but im currently in Dallas, TX, away from my laptop, but your results are pretty similar to mine tho i think I saw a steeper rolloff on the bottom end since i dont have a proper winged baffle to work with.

The only way to get a curve like the product pdf is bt having the mic ~4" from the driver rather than 1M

HAL · « **Reply #83 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 12:42 am »

Yes, but that does not tell you the effect of the baffle on the drivers frequency response in a room Why you need to also do far field (quasi-anechoic) style measurements.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #84 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 01:32 am »

Quote from: HAL on 16 Oct 2020, 12:42 am

Yes, but that does not tell you the effect of the baffle on the drivers frequency response is a room Why you need to also do far field (quasi-anechoic) style measurements.

For sure, I mostly only did the near field test as a last pass, (both indoors & out) I definitely need go construct a proper wing for my test baffle as well probably just using cheap plywood.

And I probably might also make some adjustments to my model and print a new baffle that better fits the GRS-10. Both the face & mounting areas for a cleaner fitment overall. I didnt leave enough tolerance in my design, so its fitment a little sloppy.

But its a fun learning process nonetheless!

emailtim · « **Reply #85 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 01:42 am »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Oct 2020, 01:32 am

...

And I probably might also make some adjustments to my model and print a new baffle that better fits the GRS-10.

...

FWIW, how long does it take to 3D print one of your typical baffles ? I have never used a 3D printer before.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #86 on:** 16 Oct 2020, 01:50 am »

Quote from: emailtim on 16 Oct 2020, 01:42 am

FWIW, how long does it take to 3D print one of your typical baffles ? I have never used a 3D printer before.

The baffle I printed for the GRS-3 took about 22 hrs, and the wave guide took another 8-10hrs i believe.

The two halves for the GRS-10 took about 18 hours total but it also has a low infill rate g was printed a bit faster & thicker layer height than the standard. had I gone for standard quality, it would have taken about 28-30 hours.

emailtim · « **Reply #87 on:** 17 Oct 2020, 03:44 am »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 16 Oct 2020, 01:50 am

The baffle I printed for the GRS-3 took about 22 hrs, and the wave guide took another 8-10hrs i believe.

The two halves for the GRS-10 took about 18 hours total but it also has a low infill rate g was printed a bit faster & thicker layer height than the standard. had I gone for standard quality, it would have taken about 28-30 hours.

Thanks for the info. It takes a while.

emailtim · « **Reply #88 on:** 17 Oct 2020, 03:54 am »

FWIW, here is an in-room response of the GRS NEO8 "wide" flush mounted and center offset on a 12" flat baffle with a high pass XO. The plots are with (blue) and without (green) High/Low Shelves.

With the wing version, I get 2 bumps in the middle and 1 on each end.

With the flat baffle, 1 of the bumps in the middle goes away on its own and loses some low end.

With 4 High/Low Shelves (no PEQs), I get +/- 1dB (blue) on the flat baffle.

THD looks better on the GRS NEO10 plots posted above than what I see with the NEO8.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #89 on:** 30 Oct 2020, 02:15 am »

Printed an update to the waveguide to better fit the drivers' faceplate to the back of the waveguide, & change its shape a little. Also took some time to sand the corners/edges.
Hopefully I can get some time to test it soon for direct comparisons to the previous waveguide.

(Maybe my NX studio waveguide as well)

studiotech · « **Reply #90 on:** 30 Oct 2020, 05:21 am »

My measurement results now posted over at diy audio exotic and planar forum.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-and-exotics/360339-planar-drivers-express-10.html
Greg

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #91 on:** 30 Oct 2020, 03:03 pm »

Quote from: studiotech on 30 Oct 2020, 05:21 am

My measurement results now posted over at diy audio exotic and planar forum.

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/planars-and-exotics/360339-planar-drivers-express-10.html
Greg

That thread is a pretty good read! Thanks for sharing!

And I see someone shared my blunder of killing my original GRS3 outdoors to boot

I'm just happy I didn't kill my GRS 10 while testing outside, tho i think waiting until the sun went down was to my benefit, cuz anything matte-black is going to absorb a lot of heat, even on a cloudy day.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #92 on:** 30 Oct 2020, 06:43 pm »

Lucky me, I managed to get the house to myself for my lunch break, so I ran som quick tests with 3 different waveguides.

Purple: New guide Orange: Old guide Blue: NX guide

I think the biggest issue will the Studio waveguide is that there is a ~3mm gap from the faceplate to the start of the waveguide. My Neo3 is closer to a 1mm gap. There would need to be some design changes in order to fit the GRS model. Shouldn't be an issue for Dannys model that is closer to the design of the BG models.

Otherwise both new and old wave guides are pretty similar with a moderately more even response, except for the steeper dip at 9-10K Hz

Despite how well they all appear to play down to 600Hz there's a ton of distortion below 800-900Hz. Overall, tho the distortion was rather consistent across the board, never passing 2% except for the old waveguide that showed a peak around 8-9K around 2.5%. with the others being closer to1.5% in the same range. (Didnt have time to grab a good screenshot)

I still need to make a faceplate similar to the BG model used in the old N1, N2 & N3 and similar models that fits all Neo3s as the tolerances for ghe BG model are far too tight to fit the GRS-30, much like the NX waveguide, leaving a ~3mm gap between the faceplate and driver..

DA · « **Reply #93 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 01:23 am »

What's the point of the waveguides in the Neo10/3 combination? I know the waveguide increases output level and controls directivity.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #94 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 02:00 am »

Quote from: DA on 31 Oct 2020, 01:23 am

What's the point of the waveguides in the Neo10/3 combination? I know the waveguide increases output level and controls directivity.

Waveguides also increase the lowest playable octaves of the tweeter, allowing them to blend more smoothly, and transition to a faster, lighter driver sooner than if it was flush mounted.

DA · « **Reply #95 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 02:10 am »

Yep, forgot the 3rd benefit. Thanks
But not sure what the lower crossover does for the Neo10. Matching directivity of the mid and tweeter and gaining efficiency I get.

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #96 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 03:46 am »

Here's the THD graph for the 3 waveguides.

Purple: New Orange: Old Blue: NX-Studio

Hobbsmeerkat · « **Reply #97 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 01:09 pm »

A fun little tidbit for today:
Watching Paul McGowans latest video, & it looks like PS Audio is developing their own Neo-3 & Neo-10 clones now too. The neo 3 has a shallow back cup with the PS Audio logo.

DA · « **Reply #98 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 05:00 pm »

Wonder if they're all made in the same factory?

Early B. · « **Reply #99 on:** 31 Oct 2020, 05:56 pm »

Quote from: Hobbsmeerkat on 31 Oct 2020, 01:09 pm

A fun little tidbit for today:
Watching Paul McGowans latest video, & it looks like PS Audio is developing their own Neo-3 & Neo-10 clones now too. The neo 3 has a shallow back cup with the PS Audio logo.

Interesting. It seems that the price-to-sound ratio is so high that manufacturers and the DIY community will likely flock to design speakers with them. Imagine a $750 monitor with Neo3's & 10's.