GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!

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Corcraft

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #80 on: 4 Jul 2024, 03:59 pm »
So probably a dumb question but ordering my 1st planars. Does the back cup "enclosure" need to be symmetrical like everyone that I have seen or can it have any shape like a cone speaker? Thinking about putting these in the a pillar of a car and can fiberglass the a pillar as an enclosure is why ask.

Phil A

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #81 on: 5 Jul 2024, 12:07 pm »
Welcome!  Check out this site for ideas and drivers - https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/auto-sound/

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #82 on: 5 Jul 2024, 03:46 pm »
So probably a dumb question but ordering my 1st planars. Does the back cup "enclosure" need to be symmetrical like everyone that I have seen or can it have any shape like a cone speaker? Thinking about putting these in the a pillar of a car and can fiberglass the a pillar as an enclosure is why ask.

It doesn't need to be symmetrical, but the larger the rear chamber is, the lower it can play, it just needs stuffing to prevent standing waves within the chamber.

Corcraft

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #83 on: 6 Jul 2024, 02:33 pm »
Ok thanks! That's what I thought but wanted to make sure.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #84 on: 27 Aug 2024, 07:43 pm »
Gunna revive this thread for a quick little update. :P

Been doing some more testing with Neo 3 drivers in waveguides (working within the footprint of the old BG faceplates) and I remembered this dusty old thread, namely the rods shown on page 2 to see what differences there might vs the bare faceplate.
so I printed some in different sizes. (half-circle, medium cone and tall cone)
Tweeter also using a printed deep-back cup.



The results:

Red: With rods installed (same as picture, tall on the inside, medium on the outsides)
Green: No Rods

Most other variations in the response fell somewhere between the two above measurements.

The tweeter had a baffle-step compensation network on it, but no capacitor.

Fairly small differences, mainly above 5Khz, with a little smoother curve, and better top end extension above ~17Khz

Not quite as smooth as the 3" deep standalone waveguide I did some time ago, but, it's also a lot smaller.

jmimac351

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #85 on: 27 Aug 2024, 11:57 pm »
Gunna revive this thread for a quick little update. :P

Been doing some more testing with Neo 3 drivers in waveguides (working within the footprint of the old BG faceplates)

So, besides being able to retrofit these to customers with those speakers... this would enable the creation of an entire new line of speakers.

If so, that's kind of a really big deal. 

Let me know when you want me to ship you the walnut Encore cabinets I snagged from Denton so you can work up something for the Encore / have something to play with.  I got a pair of birch cabinets from Peter.   Do it...  Do it...

Early B.

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #86 on: 28 Aug 2024, 12:17 am »
So, besides being able to retrofit these to customers with those speakers... this would enable the creation of an entire new line of speakers.

Yeah Hobbs, prepare to be overwhelmed... I now have a DIY idea that includes you, your 3D printer, and a pair of Neo tweeters blowing into horns. 8) 

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #87 on: 28 Aug 2024, 09:31 pm »
So, besides being able to retrofit these to customers with those speakers... this would enable the creation of an entire new line of speakers.

If so, that's kind of a really big deal. 

Let me know when you want me to ship you the walnut Encore cabinets I snagged from Denton so you can work up something for the Encore / have something to play with.  I got a pair of birch cabinets from Peter.   Do it...  Do it...

In theory, you could retrofit this setup into an older N-series speaker, but the crossover would definitely have to change due to how the waveguide changes the response of the tweeter, plus our tweeter performs a bit differently than the older BG units.
Danny and I have talked about bringing back the N-series at some point in the past as a halfway between the X and NX, but we set that idea/plan aside a while ago, but with us working on filling out the new shop, I wanted to build something for use in that space, since we use the N-1 in the current shop.

Cutting new holes on pre-finished cabinets is rather tricky, with a lot to go wrong, it'd be much easier to have Killian get with me to make an Encore-based test cabinet with the N-series holes. (I'm currently working with a custom Bravo cabinet with N-1 holes), I've already suggested a couple tweaks for the final cabinets, and based on the measurements I got along with few other ideas I tested out. The initial design works really well, but the cabinet needed some small tweaks to further improve it's measured. The only way to get "perfect" measurements would be to move the tweeter external into it's own waveguide with fully rounded edges, and move the woofer to the top of the cabinet, like a smaller version of the horn in the link lower down.

Yeah Hobbs, prepare to be overwhelmed... I now have a DIY idea that includes you, your 3D printer, and a pair of Neo tweeters blowing into horns. 8) 

The main issue is we currently only have one printer in house, and it takes roughly 12 hours to print a single waveguide (depending on quality level), which is quite time consuming and would limit how many we can make/sell. We would need to have them mass-produced, which would make for a much better finished product than 3D printed units. The rear cup is less of an issue, the other trick will be sourcing a good material we can supply to fill the back cups, or also having them produced with fill already in place.
We're already considering getting a 2nd printer that should be much faster, but we haven't committed to it just yet.

Printing a massive horn takes forever, not to mention uses a lot of filament, and I'd likely have to print it in two halves.
Plus, the 3D-printed horn only worked "okay", but the CNC cut one was a much better performer overall thanks to its much denser build, really boosting the bottom end without the need for baffle-step compensation.
With a basic 2nd-order slope, I could cross the tweeter as low as 700-800Hz without breaking a sweat, which would be great for pairing with a large high-efficiency woofer.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171691.msg1905391#msg1905391

jmimac351

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #88 on: 29 Aug 2024, 12:43 am »
There is a lot of goodwill around here. I bet some even have 3D printers and would want to print their own anyway... because anyone who owns a 3D printer is looking for any reason to make something in their printer.  (The same happens with welder owners.) You could charge a nominal fee for the file to buy another printer / stuffs. 

I really, really like the M165NQ driver.  I've mentioned that it absolutely smokes the Scan-Speak 8545 in midrange clarity.  It will be very cool to see more options using that M165NQ driver with the Neo 3 tweeter... like a sealed MTM of M165NQ and Neo 3 Tweeter... oh, but no 16ohm version of M165NQ for sealed cabinet, so:

Make a 92-93dB tower speaker with 12" servo sub at the base that's suddenly a world class speaker:
  • M165NQ
  • M165NQ
  • Neo 3 - Sealed
  • M165NQ
  • M165NQ
  • 12" Servo Sub

Oh, and put an LGK driver on the back of it.  I've watched videos that say that works well.  :green: