GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!

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Sonicjoy

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #20 on: 25 Jul 2020, 12:52 pm »
Hey Hobbs I thought this thread was about tweeter cups? Boy you are easily distracted!  :lol: You are going to give Danny some competition in speaker design.  :popcorn:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #21 on: 25 Jul 2020, 02:59 pm »
Hey Hobbs I thought this thread was about tweeter cups? Boy you are easily distracted!  :lol: You are going to give Danny some competition in speaker design.  :popcorn:

LMAO :rotflmao:
That's what i get for having life-long ADD! :P
But yes, i will be working on that tonight after work, and most of tomorrow.
I should probably start a new thread for the towers tho...  :P

Hey now! I'm not here to compete with Danny! I'm just taking the concepts he's already shown & current design aesthetics & using them in different ways, and my creative imagination just likes seeing how far I can run with those ideas.. and now that I've got a new tool to explore those ideas, its just getting me sidetracked.. :lol:

That said...

I think i want to work on a slightly simpler design that will be easier to print.
A base ring that fits around the Neo3, with the cup portion attaching on top of that, with glue/screws. With a theoretical "production" model that is injection molded, being used as a single unit.

I am curious tho, because looking at this picture i found of the inside of the deeps cups, it looks like the curved portion is double walled? I know there's felt lining it, but maybe im wrong?
I dunno if I want to take mine apart to find out...


Peter J

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #22 on: 25 Jul 2020, 04:11 pm »
I have to say, I really like the design explorations. It's something I enjoy doing and found Sketchup to be a good tool to convey ideas. Group think can be a powerful tool.

Having done similar explorations I may be able to shed some light on the process to bring the back cup to fruition in this realm.

To have something like the back cup mass produced via 3D printing would primarily take two things. The design needs to be in the form of an .STL file for a 3D printer and the printer would have to be capable of doing production parts with both resolution and speed. When I checked into it with a different but similar shape, estimates were guessed at $150-$250 per piece. One would have to factor what the market would be for such a part.

 I also looked into injection molding for same part. To make the mold would likely be in the $5-7K with per unit production perhaps $15-25 in lots of, say, 500.

 To either of those numbers, a business needs a reasonable profit margin to make it make financial sense.

Either way poses a real puzzle for a small business. Is it salable at $200 per unit if 3D printed? How long and how many would it take to recover up-front costs if you went the injection molding route? One wonders if the demand is there and would sustain for a few years to make that make sense. The reality is it's a tiny segment of a niche market that has more than a few competitors. That would likely lead to some significant marketing efforts, which also cost money. It's a conundrum I have yet to solve.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #23 on: 25 Jul 2020, 05:10 pm »
Yeah! it's definitely been a fun experience, even when i was just drawing ideas on my iPad, but having a 3D model to work with really takes it up a notch.. luckily Sketchup does export STL and OBJ files.

Yeah, mass production probably isn't going to be ideal unless there's a huge demand for it, esp if it requires such a huge unit cost, or a large quantity.
Even hobby-level printing at home costs $200-300 to get started and can take a couple hours for each unit, and spools of ABS are fairly cheep and would last a while. But you'd still be looking at $30-40 per pair once you factor in the time it takes to produce a single pair, and recoup costs of materials/maintenance/design etc and maintain stock of the filament.

And yeah, considering this is a super niche segment of an already niche market, its not going to be something that's practial unless there's just a large consistent demand for it.
But considering these can be used on any BG/GR Neo3 PDR or not, does allow a little more opportunity, even then it's not something I would consider realistically "sustainable"

But its still fun to brainstorm these ideas to see what works & what  doesn't.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #24 on: 26 Jul 2020, 02:53 am »
Okay! I spent the entire evening modeling a "near perfect" replica of the Neo3 rear plate. As well as the base that the rear cup will mount to. A gasket will need to sit between the cup and the back of the Neo3, but I'll figure out those details tomorrow.

Feels good to be back on track! :P



Sonicjoy

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #25 on: 26 Jul 2020, 02:41 pm »
LOL! Being easily distracted is a sign of a fertile mind.

It may be possible for small batches to have them CNC milled from solid stock plastic. Might be worth investigating. They could be made to order that way. 

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #26 on: 26 Jul 2020, 03:05 pm »
LOL! Being easily distracted is a sign of a fertile mind.

It may be possible for small batches to have them CNC milled from solid stock plastic. Might be worth investigating. They could be made to order that way.

I guess that explains a lot! :P

My only issue with the CNC route is that in order to get a proper seal with a gasket, the base of the cup has to have an inside base that presses against the face of the Neo3. And in order to get the needed shape, a CNC wouldn't allow for such design, not to mention wasting a ton of plastic in scraps.

I might try to come up with a simple version that is just a cup that could be glued on directly with a silicon adhesive, just like the actual cup. Making it a more "permanent" solution.
It should also be much easier to produce.

I also saw mention on another forum, that the cups tend to have a "ring" to them, so maybe using a product like Dynamat or just some small spare chunks of NoRez in the cup will help?

that said, Im done with the lower spacer that fits onto the frame, and about 70% done with the cup portion itself. So expect pics shortly! :thumb:

Sonicjoy

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #27 on: 26 Jul 2020, 04:32 pm »
As for the ringing? just make the walls thicker and out of well damped plastic. Maybe UHMW. Very dense. It would require some experimenting as usual.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #28 on: 26 Jul 2020, 05:14 pm »
Okay i think i have the core of the mod complete!





A gasket material would need to be custom cut to fit between the center and right components, along with some felt or insulation material would need to be inserted.
I imagine those should be pretty easy to source from local hardware store or online.

Luckily i have a buddy in Texas that said he can run a test print for me!
I can have my buddy either ship the parts to me so i can cut a gasket & treat the cup, or have it shipped directly to Danny for observations/ testing, if that's something he's up for?

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #29 on: 27 Jul 2020, 07:49 pm »
Just got confirmation that the prototypes are printed and fit well together! The cup model needed a slight tweek since the first prototype was too thin at the top and didn't make a good seal, so i made some small adjustments and its solid now.

I should be getting some rough measurements & pictures tonight once my friend gets home from work.  :thumb:

I did make some small changes too, making the mounting holes more oblong to allow for some screw placement variation, and adding a little extra lip to the terminal side of the cup to allow for better seal.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #30 on: 28 Jul 2020, 01:34 am »
Okay! Got some pictures of the test prints~

First is the demo print based on the measurements I took of my Neo3.



Next are the spacer and cup that also turned out quite nice!





lastly here's the face plate & spacer fitted together, and the cup will fit on top with a gasket in between.



The big test going forward will be to get it assembled & see how they measure! :thumb:
« Last Edit: 28 Jul 2020, 12:24 pm by Hobbsmeerkat »

hawkeyejw

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #31 on: 28 Jul 2020, 11:55 am »
This is really impressive Hobbs! Would be very cool to get availability back for the models that use this particular tweeter.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #32 on: 28 Jul 2020, 12:39 pm »
This is really impressive Hobbs! Would be very cool to get availability back for the models that use this particular tweeter.

Thanks! Its definitely been a fun brainstorming session!
Me too! :P I'd love to see a return of the N3 &smaller N1X, or even update versions using the M165 or 165NQ drivers.

Once I can verify that these work & measure well, I'll be sure to post the STL files so anyone who wants them can print them, or have someone they know print them.

I might also work on a couple modifications to the file that should allow for injection molding, and a potentially better seal, if that's a route Danny wants to go in the future.

I'll make some updates to the models tonight, and have those printed as well  :thumb:

RonP

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #33 on: 28 Jul 2020, 12:57 pm »
What? No 3D printed yarn for the outer rows of the tweeter?  :lol:

yeah wow.. nice job

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #34 on: 28 Jul 2020, 12:59 pm »
What? No 3D printed yarn for the outer rows of the tweeter?  :lol:

yeah wow.. nice job

Hey now, I don't want wanna infringe on any patents! :wink:

Thanks!

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #35 on: 28 Jul 2020, 02:10 pm »

I might also work on a couple modifications to the file that should allow for injection molding, and a potentially better seal, if that's a route Danny wants to go in the future.

I'll make some updates to the models tonight, and have those printed as well  :thumb:

This version would require 2 gaskets, or having the spacer/cup glued together, with the gasket between the neo3 and spacers
Ill also include a couple tabs/slots to maintain alignment while being glued.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #36 on: 29 Jul 2020, 12:56 am »
Okay, so i had to pass on the tabs for the alignment, I can't have them printed, cuz in order to have them added would make them impossible to print.
At least you can use the mounting holes to keep them clamped. :P

I also want to test the dividers shown in this thread, Hense the small half circle strips:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151771.msg1623024#msg1623024


But here's the changes made to the middle spacer, moving the cup opening to the spacer.






Danny Richie

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #37 on: 29 Jul 2020, 01:53 pm »
I'd love to test those little bars.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #38 on: 29 Jul 2020, 01:55 pm »
I'd love to test those little bars.
Sure! l can have my buddy mail you the bars, and the back cup prototypes for testing  :thumb:

hawkeyejw

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #39 on: 29 Jul 2020, 04:05 pm »
This is fun to watch, I'm looking forward to seeing Danny's testing results on all of this. Nice work Hobbs.