GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!

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Hobbsmeerkat

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GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« on: 10 Jul 2020, 05:41 pm »
Looking over a few forums, it appears that the shallow and deep-cups for the old BG Neo are just glued on with silicon adhesive.

Given that information, I had a couple ideas for how to attach custom 3d printed options..

The simplest idea would be to desing a cup similar to the Standard BG neo design, and use a similar method of attachment via silicon adhesive.

Alternatively, you could have the cup attached to the driver via the mounting holes of the Neo3, with a gasket between them for a proper seal.
Luckily this option would allow for attachment of the cup, without having to make it a more permanent addition, and make alignment much easier/consistent.

And by the same token, a front mounting bracket can be formed, with future options for flushmounts, wave-guides, or possibly even horns?

With a modular system like this you could even do some weird/experimental stuff, like porting the rear of the neo3 directly out the back of the cabinet. Even upgrades might be possible, if a "better" rear cup design is found...

I definitely want to sketch out some of these ideas, so any information on the rough dimensions of the GR/BG Neo3 & it's back cup so i can be a little more accurate with my sketches.

And feel free to offer any ideas as well!  :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #1 on: 10 Jul 2020, 11:22 pm »
Okay, took a little time to sketch out some ideas!

The basic idea is that the back cup will fit over that entire back of the Neo3, mounting into the back, with a gasket between them. Then, being held by screws into the front baffle, a wave guide, or a flush mount face plate.

And for good fun, I added in a transmission line for the tweeter.  :P



Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #2 on: 12 Jul 2020, 09:02 pm »
For a little fun, I designed a larger horn/waveguide. :P
Any other ideas?



Danny Richie

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jul 2020, 08:51 pm »
Creative.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jul 2020, 09:16 pm »
Thanks, Danny!
I've been thinking about getting my hands on a Neo3 from you for more accurate measurements & testing. Then see if I can figure out how to use 3D modeling software again, like Blender to design basic the concepts, then see if I can find someone/somewhere local that can print some prototypes for further testing.. :thumb:
Makes me wish I had a 3D printer.. lol

HAL

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jul 2020, 09:38 pm »
PE now has BG NEO3's with the deep back cup.  They are only on the NEO3W driver, not the NEO3-PDR.

Might be worth getting one BG NEO3W to model the deep back cup to make versions for the new ones, as you cannot purchase just the deep back cup.  Might be others on here that do have access to 3D printers that could help.  Seems there are folks looking for the Nx speaker designs that would be interested.

When I looked at my pair, the deep cup had felt in it for absorption of the back wave.

Just an idea.   




Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jul 2020, 10:17 pm »
I've found a few Neo3 PDR w/deep cups in a few different places online. And they all seem to be going for the $90 range, so ill probably get one of them. That said, I'm not sure how much variance there is between the BG & GR, which is why i probably need to get one of each, for more "apples to apples" testing.

I know there's definitely a fair bit of interest in the NX designs along with some of the older models, like the N-3, that also have a good bit of interest now that the Carnegie CST-1s are gone, so having a "drop-in" replacement/mod for the GR Neo3 would be a nice alternative..
Much like the smaller wave guide, which could eliminate the need for CNC front baffles, or possibly cheaper alternatives.

Ill definitely do some looking/asking around the forums to see if anyone is interested in working on these ideas with me.  :thumb:

Jon L

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jul 2020, 10:29 pm »
How about Neo3 and Neo10 in coaxial mode like in B&G Z91 speakers?

B&Gz92a by drjlo2, on Flickr

B&GZ92 by drjlo2, on Flickr


Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jul 2020, 10:34 pm »
That's certainly an interesting idea!
Esp once Danny finds a replacement for the Neo10 that he's happy with, then it might be something we can look into a a little more deeply.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jul 2020, 06:47 pm »
Ordered myself a Neo 3 (Non PDR) with a deep cup & a flush mount face plate. As well as a digital caliper so I can get more accurate measurements than the white papers/spec sheet give which is an early model with a shallow cup.

If i recall correctly, Danny's Neo 3 is a custom non-PDR model, but after you add the yarn to the outer holes, it effectively becomes a "PDR" equivalent without risking patents, cuz its essentially treated as a "mod" by the end user.
I also read that the actual PDR models have only 3 magnets instead of the usual 5 in the GR & standard BG models.
The GR Neo uses also uses a Kapton membrane instead of the Kaladex found in the BG models &  only has felt only on the front side.

I'm curious how the yarn mod will affect a standard BG Neo 3.
I do need to source a front baffle or two. One for the flush mount, and the other with a standard 1.5" deep NX Waveguide, I should be able to contact Jay or Killian to see if he can cut a custom test baffle that can be flipped to test both mounting styles, and if that's the case, ill try to see if I can also order the G3 Neo 3.

I don't know if the side/rear baffles are as important for this type of testing tho, so feel free comment if you know more about it than i do.
I also want to eventually run some tests on the mod I've seen that puts semicircular molds between the rows of openings, to see if that's a viable option for some future faceplate/waveguide mods.

skalos

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #10 on: 16 Jul 2020, 07:19 pm »
Hello,

Can you share where you found the Neo3 PDR w/deep back cups? Are these the same deep back cups Danny used in the N3S?

Best,

Steven

I've found a few Neo3 PDR w/deep cups in a few different places online. And they all seem to be going for the $90 range, so ill probably get one of them. That said, I'm not sure how much variance there is between the BG & GR, which is why i probably need to get one of each, for more "apples to apples" testing.

I know there's definitely a fair bit of interest in the NX designs along with some of the older models, like the N-3, that also have a good bit of interest now that the Carnegie CST-1s are gone, so having a "drop-in" replacement/mod for the GR Neo3 would be a nice alternative..
Much like the smaller wave guide, which could eliminate the need for CNC front baffles, or possibly cheaper alternatives.

Ill definitely do some looking/asking around the forums to see if anyone is interested in working on these ideas with me.  :thumb:

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #11 on: 16 Jul 2020, 07:46 pm »
Hello,

Can you share where you found the Neo3 PDR w/deep back cups? Are these the same deep back cups Danny used in the N3S?

Best,

Steven


Sadly, its NOT the PDR model, just the standard Neo3 that's also available on Parts Express.

There are some available on eBay for $115 ish, but i don't know how trustworthy it is since it's coming from Malaysia.
Nevermind, seems that they are the shallow cup model.
« Last Edit: 16 Jul 2020, 09:33 pm by Hobbsmeerkat »

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jul 2020, 02:07 am »
I tried drawing these in blender, but i it ended up being more complicated than i wanted, so SketchUp it is! I'm pretty happy with how they've turned out so far.




Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #13 on: 21 Jul 2020, 01:32 pm »
Just got my BG Neo3 (Non-PDR) with deep cup in today for measurements, along with a pair of cheap digital calipers for getting things as accurate as possible. As well as the plastic flush mount for good measure & future testing. :thumb:







Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #14 on: 24 Jul 2020, 01:37 am »
Got a little sidetracked while working on the cup designs
Mostly trying to get a feel for how SketchUp works, but I designed an MTM version of the NX-Studio with a side facing wave guide.
I don't know if this is feasible aside from being a bit complicated. but it was a fun side project for brainstorming.
Plus you can just rotate the front waveguide, remove the lower portion, & boom, its a center channel! :P


« Last Edit: 25 Jul 2020, 02:20 am by Hobbsmeerkat »

Argoncat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #15 on: 24 Jul 2020, 04:50 pm »
Cool concept... Would you be able to get a side firing servo sub in each of the lower sections? Looks like you'd have more than the 1.5 cf sealed volume space, albeit rectangular over square in shape, if that matters..


Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #16 on: 24 Jul 2020, 05:44 pm »
Cool concept... Would you be able to get a side firing servo sub in each of the lower sections? Looks like you'd have more than the 1.5 cf sealed volume space, albeit rectangular over square in shape, if that matters..
Thanks!
I checked the volume, looking into that idea,  seems to be closer to 1.3 cubic ft. And it would require a little extra bracing and a double layer on the outer wall.. but still should be possible! It will require the Plate amp to be outside the cabinet tho, since the inside wall would be a pretty ugly mounting position...

Ill see if I can design a version with a side mount servo sub tonight after work. Might require a slightly wider front baffle or a modified base thats a little wider, over all.

Ill also see if i can design a proper center-channel setup as well.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #17 on: 25 Jul 2020, 02:16 am »
I'm not particularly happy with how it looks, and it's still a bit under-sized at 1.35 Cubic Ft, and the woofer will stick out to the side a bit, unless you increase the baffle to 10" wide, and recess the sub into it.
Then in order to prevent the sub from affecting the woofers, I sealed it off in its own section. I also increased the overall height to 6" from the center of the upper woofer hole. So the tower is currently 50" tall not including the plinth/base. same goes for the brace between the main sections.
If you chop off the sub portion you have a pair of reversible 24 inch tall MTM speakers, which would be a better approach on top of OB subs IMO.


« Last Edit: 25 Jul 2020, 03:20 am by Hobbsmeerkat »

Tyson

Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #18 on: 25 Jul 2020, 04:02 am »
Why not make it a trapezoid shape?  Wide in the back and narrow in the front.  That will give you more airspace plus allow you to mount the sub amp on the back of the speaker where it's wider.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: GR Neo3 back-cup ideas!
« Reply #19 on: 25 Jul 2020, 04:47 am »
Why not make it a trapezoid shape?  Wide in the back and narrow in the front.  That will give you more airspace plus allow you to mount the sub amp on the back of the speaker where it's wider.
I've actually considered that idea as well...
IIRC, the NX line uses a 10° slope outwards. So maybe a trapezoidal design may work better for the application of a built-in sealed Sub...
(If we were still using 8" subs i could probably squeeze 2 or 3 in.. :P

I'll work that into my next design. It should hopefully allow for a full 1.5 cubic Ft space as well as a proper mount of the amp plate.

I kinda also want to work on some of those rough sketches i did for SonicJoy into  3D models. But maybe for another thread.. :P
This thread is already sidetracked enough as it is... :lol: