Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 4465 times.

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #20 on: 4 Jun 2020, 10:28 pm »
If Murphy’s Law ever applied to anything it is cords and hoses.  And straight edges.  Those things hate me.  If they had thumbs, they would do real damage to me.  As a result of my issues with those things, I have a bevy of cordless tools.  My latest acquisition is a cordless router.  No, don’t laugh, I did buy one and the quick answer is - Yes it really does work.  And I did buy it for this project.  Straight edges, I’ll come to that...



There is a lot to be said for this little thing...  First: no cord.  Second: it has power

There is a spiral, down cut bit in the picture.  The idea for getting this came from from the bits used to make holes in drywall.  My thought was this will help to control dust.

In the picture you can see 2 cuts that I made.  The really clean one is with the carbide bit in the picture.  The nasty looking cut is from a cutter used for drywall.  Ya, doesn’t work too well on MDF...

If you look closely at the picture, you will see that the MDF has a relief routed into to it.  That is a 3/4”x3/8” routing that I did in a single pass with this router.

The router has speed control; you can see the speed setting dial in the picture.  I think the range is something like 16,000 to 24,000 rpm.  And it is a real speed control.  This thing will hold that speed setting no matter what.  No bogging down.  It just goes.  The downside to that... the 3/4” router bit, doing a 3/8” deep cut will suck a 2 amp-hr battery to zero in about 3 feet of cutting.  So, this will be a case of using the right tool for the job.  I will likely be using a corded router for these heavier cuts.

However, for using the 1/8” bit in it... I am loving it.  It has been used to make the 4 foot long cuts in the MDF with no sweat.  I get about 12 linear ft of cutting with that same 2 amp-hr battery.

For cutting I ended up trying two straight edges:



This worked really well.  It was really stiff and guided the router nicely.  It is a 4’ long piece of 3/16x1x1 aluminum angle.  It worked great until I found it was bent and I was on my way to making a bowed version of these speakers.  And they would have been bowed to the side, not front to back, which might have been interesting.  This isn’t the first time I have had non-straight straight edges.  You would think I would have learned my lessen and not just pick something out of the “miscellaneous pile” and use it just because it looks right...  :duh:  I was able to recover and cut those pieces in to smaller parts.   :roll:

My second attempt at making straight cuts worked much better...  It really is straight



I placed the MDF on sever 5/4 board which raised it up enough to put a shop vac hose attachment under the MDF and in the channel created by the 5/4 boards.  This did really well at gathering and controlling dust.

There is a little left over feathering on bottom edge of the cut, which is easily taken care of with a bit of light sanding.  Also, the cutter leaves slight bump as it exits the piece at the end of the cut.  This I take care of with a coarse file, but if left behind can cause issues with making right angle cuts if it comes into contact with the straight edge of the cutter or layout.

jcsperson

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 173
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #21 on: 5 Jun 2020, 03:24 am »
Also, the cutter leaves slight bump as it exits the piece at the end of the cut.  This I take care of with a coarse file, but if left behind can cause issues with making right angle cuts if it comes into contact with the straight edge of the cutter or layout.

Do you have flush-trim router bit? That would leave a nice, smooth finish.








jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #22 on: 5 Jun 2020, 03:11 pm »
Yes, that is a consideration.  I am lucky in that some tools like that are readily available to me to buy locally if needed/wanted.  The 1/8” one I am using was a mail order.  So that took some planning.

I have seen the build where the builder (You?, sorry that I don’t remember who) used that router bit for trimming off overlap after assembly.  And I saw the painter’s tape to keep the roller from marking and the use of out-rigger supports to keep the router level.  A good example of how to do this.

My plan now is a black painted gloss finish; maybe with some texture.  But that is as far as I have gotten.  Right now my cuts are really clean, except for that little bit of feathering, which is easily removed.  The edge is good enough for routing the recesses and for assembly.  From there I am considering doing rounded corners on the cabinets and I have a set of corner-rounds for doing that.  But that leaves me with the dilemma of whether to do a grill cloth covers or not, and, if I do, how do I integrate that with rounded cabinet corners... Maybe some corners square and some rounded...  Ugh - too much to think about.   :?

However, I am hoping that I will be close enough on my dimensions to be able to get away with just sanding.  If, not then I will likely need one of those.  I am thinking I am good with dimensions and being square, having checked all that I have done so far.  With the initial cutting being good, then I expect the recess routing to follow suit.  I know I will need to practice a lot before doing that routing on the production pieces.  In the past I have struggle with using the router table I have (something is “off” with it and I haven’t quite gotten that bug worked out) and I don’t like the idea of free-hand the router to do this, especially for the number of linear feet that will need to be routed.  Once that is done, I am looking forward to my dry-fit up to see how I have done.

mlundy57

Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #23 on: 5 Jun 2020, 04:53 pm »
Yes, that is a consideration.  I am lucky in that some tools like that are readily available to me to buy locally if needed/wanted.  The 1/8” one I am using was a mail order.  So that took some planning.

I have seen the build where the builder (You?, sorry that I don’t remember who) used that router bit for trimming off overlap after assembly.  And I saw the painter’s tape to keep the roller from marking and the use of out-rigger supports to keep the router level.  A good example of how to do this.

My plan now is a black painted gloss finish; maybe with some texture.  But that is as far as I have gotten.  Right now my cuts are really clean, except for that little bit of feathering, which is easily removed.  The edge is good enough for routing the recesses and for assembly.  From there I am considering doing rounded corners on the cabinets and I have a set of corner-rounds for doing that.  But that leaves me with the dilemma of whether to do a grill cloth covers or not, and, if I do, how do I integrate that with rounded cabinet corners... Maybe some corners square and some rounded...  Ugh - too much to think about.   :?

However, I am hoping that I will be close enough on my dimensions to be able to get away with just sanding.  If, not then I will likely need one of those.  I am thinking I am good with dimensions and being square, having checked all that I have done so far.  With the initial cutting being good, then I expect the recess routing to follow suit.  I know I will need to practice a lot before doing that routing on the production pieces.  In the past I have struggle with using the router table I have (something is “off” with it and I haven’t quite gotten that bug worked out) and I don’t like the idea of free-hand the router to do this, especially for the number of linear feet that will need to be routed.  Once that is done, I am looking forward to my dry-fit up to see how I have done.

There is an old adage in woodworking that when cutting and gluing up something like a cabinet one of three things will happen: (1) the parts will fit perfectly and everything will come out square; (2) the end grain/edge will be a little long and have to be flush trimmed back, or (3) the end grain/edge will be a little short in which case the entire side will have to be sanded. Murphy states situation (1) is unlikely. Situation (2) is easy to correct while situation (3) is a PITA to correct. The point is to purposely make the mistake that is easiest to correct.

For the X-LS cabinets, I implement this approach by cutting the tops and bottoms a little long so they overhang the sides by about 1/16" then flush trim. I cut the front and rear baffles oversize so they are about 1/16" over all four sides of the cabinet after the tops and bottoms have been flush trimmed, then flush trim the four sides of the baffles. Then I do any sanding to make sure everything is flat, then cut any edge profiles I want.

Mike

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #24 on: 5 Jun 2020, 06:23 pm »
D@*n that Murphy.  if it were not for him, we would all be golden...   :o

I did cut to the high side on the external parts except the back which I plan to have fully within recesses.   Not quite a sixteenth, though.  The internal braces are cut on the low side to make sure they fit without affecting the outside.  I hope (is that a plan?) I did enough.

Things will be sitting for a few days while another project takes over.  The sides and back have yet to be cut to length and I have at least one with the width cut wrong.  It is more of a trapezoid than a rectangle, but fixable.  Measure twice or 3 times, cut once doesn’t help if the straight edge slips...  :duh:   Where is that Murphy?  I need to have a word or two with him...      :|

Kidding aside - Point is well taken...    :thumb:

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #25 on: 6 Jun 2020, 03:02 pm »
I know this is a bit off my topic but:

What are people using for a Blu-ray player?

Mine has died

I looked here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168833.0
And will do other searches here.

But, I was wondering if the people who build Danny’s speakers had “different” thoughts as to what they use as a source for what will ultimately go to these speakers than what the “general” audiophile masses think...

I have looked here for A/V receivers (this was a “why not”   :green:):
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166966.0

mlundy57

Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #26 on: 6 Jun 2020, 04:40 pm »
I know this is a bit off my topic but:

What are people using for a Blu-ray player?

Mine has died

I looked here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=168833.0
And will do other searches here.

But, I was wondering if the people who build Danny’s speakers had “different” thoughts as to what they use as a source for what will ultimately go to these speakers than what the “general” audiophile masses think...

I have looked here for A/V receivers (this was a “why not”   :green:):
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166966.0

I have an OPPO 105. Unfortunately, OPPO is no longer in the disc player market so the only way to get a 105 or 205 is used.

A couple other good ones are the Marantz UD5007 and UD7007. These are also going to be used market.

One that might still be available new is the Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #27 on: 6 Jun 2020, 05:25 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions.   :thumb:

It seems that several upper level manufacturers have dropped out of that business.

corndog71

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1067
  • Some people call me Rob.
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #28 on: 6 Jun 2020, 05:32 pm »
I got a Oppo UDP-203 when the company said it was shutting down production.  It’s crazy how expensive they are on the used market. 

mlundy57

Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #29 on: 6 Jun 2020, 05:34 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions.   :thumb:

It seems that several upper level manufacturers have dropped out of that business.

Yes anD that leaves those of us with eclectic disc libraries in a lurch. I have CDs, SACDs, DVD-Audio, and Blu-Ray discs.

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #30 on: 6 Jun 2020, 06:31 pm »
??? Yamaha BD-A1060 ???

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #31 on: 8 Jun 2020, 09:28 pm »
I think I found 2 Blu-ray players here that look pretty good:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/Blu-ray-Disc-Players/ci/1908/N/4289367639?sort=PRICE_HIGH_TO_LOW

They have two that fit my needs. The pricier one is the Panasonic DP-UB9000 and then next is the Sony UBP-X1100ES.  They have the Pioneer Elite UDP-LX500, but it has limited connectivity, which doesn’t support other parts in my system.  I also note that both support a lot of different media types.

Not sure which I would go with.  The Sony is the least expensive and match other components I have.  Panasonic has always done well by me and tends to have a really good reputation. 


Not sure I am up for buying used.  So I think I will be getting something off the new market.


nlitworld

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 192
  • Strange things are afoot at the Circle K
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #32 on: 11 Jun 2020, 12:53 am »

My plan now is a black painted gloss finish; maybe with some texture.  But that is as far as I have gotten.  Right now my cuts are really clean, except for that little bit of feathering, which is easily removed.  The edge is good enough for routing the recesses and for assembly.  From there I am considering doing rounded corners on the cabinets and I have a set of corner-rounds for doing that.  But that leaves me with the dilemma of whether to do a grill cloth covers or not, and, if I do, how do I integrate that with rounded cabinet corners... Maybe some corners square and some rounded...  Ugh - too much to think about.   :?

Have you thought about a full automotive level paint job on them? It's actually pretty stinkin easy and the look of a black speaker done in good basecoat/clearcoat looks aaaaaaamazing. Way nicer than most "piano black" finishes you get on a regular purchased speaker.

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #33 on: 11 Jun 2020, 02:12 pm »
Have you thought about a full automotive level paint job on them? It's actually pretty stinkin easy and the look of a black speaker done in good basecoat/clearcoat looks aaaaaaamazing. Way nicer than most "piano black" finishes you get on a regular purchased speaker.
 
It would be a bit like a brand new Steinway look.  That would surely be sharp looking.  I did that with a set of wheels I bought for my Jeep.  They were inexpensive and only painted black.  I had them clear coated more for added protection than anything else.  When I got them back they looked soooo good I had second thoughts about putting them on.  I know where you are coming from.    :thumb:

There are some factors driving my thoughts on finish.  I am going for a bit of a “hide in the corner” look for the room these will be going into.  That is in part to accommodate past requests from another Wink2 to keep things toned down.  I also live where doing any amount of spraying would be highly frowned upon.  At least for now, I will be headed in a different direction.

That said, I do have another room where that sort of finish might work really well and that room night need a new set of speakers... Ya, never know...

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #34 on: 11 Jun 2020, 02:35 pm »
I am back to cutting up MDF and have almost finished that part of the build.  Next step will be routing.  This will take some practice.  I am sure I will be looking at both freehand with a guide and use of the router table.  Both come with risks in my hands.  Then there is dust control which I expect to be more of a factor than it has been with the 1/8” bit I have been using.  I have plenty of scrap MDF that will be put to good use trying out my options.

Speaking of MDF - Could one of the reasons the X-MTM are a bit less popular than other builds be their final weight?  I weighed the MDF I have cut up with and have slightly over 60 lbs of wood alone for each speaker.  These thing are going to weight between 70 and 80 lbs each.  These are not going to be light, are they!  And how do I get them out of the basement when I am done?  :duh:  Ok, I can figure that one out, but it is a bit of an eye opener.

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #35 on: 19 Jun 2020, 02:34 pm »
I have several cars that have been occupying my time recently and I have had little chance to do much on the speakers.  Last night I went to set up the table saw to trim the width of the sides for the cabinets and that was a failure :icon_frown:

It turned out that the last time I cleaned it, I had loosened some bolts to gain access to some areas.  These also are used to align the blade to the rest of the table.  Well, wouldn’t you know, close isn’t good enough.  Close, as in 1/64-ish.  A test piece I ran through to check the size setting was getting hit hard by the trailing edge of the blade and that was more than seemed right.

I hadn’t paid a lot attention to this in the past as the saw has only been used mostly for rough work.  But this needed to be “right” and I was trying to include to include a touch of planned overaage as suggested by mlundy57.  I figured that not having the saw more closely aligned was going to put a big question on that one and how it would come out.

So, last night I spent several hours trying to get this thing more closely aligned.  First off, this is an old school Craftsman table saw with a cast iron top.  It weights well over a 100 lbs and moving it so I can get to the underside and those stinking bolts, was a real pain, literally.  And while the machinist’s scale I was using goes down to 1/64ths, my eyes don’t; not any more.  No matter what I tried.  Ok, I don’t have a good magnifying glass, nor three hands to do this, so I didn’t try that.  This was probably a hour of my effort.  Ugh. I got it to what I thought was close and ran a test cut that showed that it was still off.  Then I realized that measuring it was the wrong and hard way to go.  I just needed to use the test cut piece of wood to touch of the leading and trailing edge of the blade, from both sides of the blade, to see how much it was off.  I ran the piece of wood, attached to the miter gage, back and forth to see how the blade was aligned to the miter slots.  Easy to see and feel where it was touching the blade or not.  The hard part then became how to move the blade and motor mounting structure in very, very small increments.  A little trial and error and then less error, all was good.

I am back in business.  8)

Now, I am pondering whether it is worth the extra step to use the table saw to make a 3/8” deep cut in the panels before routing out the 3/8” x 3/4“ recess needed for fit up.  I see another practice session coming up...  :wink:

mlundy57

Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #36 on: 19 Jun 2020, 04:28 pm »
It's always a good idea to practice cuts and set-ups on scrap until you get it right. This also goes for finishing techniques you are unfamiliar with. Better to make a mistake on a piece of scrap then on the cabinet.

diyman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #37 on: 19 Jun 2020, 07:05 pm »
...First off, this is an old school Craftsman table saw with a cast iron top...

If it's an old 12" saw with a cast iron table, you may have another accuracy issue.  Chances are good that the top is warped downwards in the area of the blade due to the heavy weight of the motor.  You need to use a quality straight edge and feeler gauges to see if there is any warp or not.

If there is warp, it means that you cannot get accurate 90 degree cuts without a lot of fine alignment each time you change the blade angle.  And it will be different from each side so it's important to check specifically whether you want the 90 degree cut on the fence side piece or the cutoff piece.  It will also depend on how wide the starting piece is.  So simply using a 90 degree square from one side to set the blade is not enough.  You have to make actual cuts and measure them afterwards with the square.

Hopefully, you have no table warp.  But it's pretty common with cast iron, so you really should check it out if you have not already done so.

jonsk2514

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 61
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #38 on: 19 Jun 2020, 08:28 pm »
Yup, 12”, 220V Craftsman.

Wow!  Did you ever call it on that one...  Ugh!
and something I never would have thought to check... :?

I did a quick look at the surface using a nice steel 2’ straight edge I have.  I looked left to right and front to back. There is a definite upward (not downward) “bump” in the “flat” surface that needs to be pushed down 5 - 10 mills (maybe more?)  :icon_frown:

It is about 6” around (maybe more), to the left of the blade, forward of the motor location and includes the miter slide.  It disappears towards the edge of the casting and doesn’t go to the right side of the blade.  I haven’t made any exact measurements, but looking at something like this for being “light tight” is a good enough tell.  Also, the straight edge would clearly rock when it was on top of it.

For now, the fence side looks to be good.  I will check further, though, to make sure.  The miter side is clearly porked, though... 

As for the left side, I would figure if there is a bump in one location there should be a depression in an other, which I can look for later...

And I will say, this is a first for me.  This is a motor, while heavy for what it is, that is way too light to bend steel that thick, and yet it can cause the steel to warp over time?  Maybe it is like a car spring taking a set?  But that is aside and the subject for another discussion.

I guess this is a good reason to be posting whatever about what is going on, as it can trigger the most unlikely tidbits...  :thumb:

diyman

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 87
Re: Amateur Build of the X-MTM Encore
« Reply #39 on: 19 Jun 2020, 08:43 pm »
Is this a contractors saw or a cabinet saw?  I should have probably asked that first, because it makes a big difference in how the motor is suspended and that in turn can effect the top warping.