[Russell Dawkins]

For anyone interested, I have found the South China Morning Post (Hong Kong based) to be an interesting source for news about Covid-19 research. Jack Ma (owner of the SCMP) and the editors have a major commitment to the Trust Project, a group of journalists across the world trying to maintain standards of integrity and honesty. Today's edition has a good read about the issues and hurdles the world faces in the race to develop a vaccine. There is another article in today's edition about research into the virus' ability to attack T-cells in some patients in a manner similar to AIDS.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3079375/coronavirus-why-theres-no-quick-fix-covid-19-vaccine

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective

Thanks for the links. It's valuable to find well informed coverage of this.

[SteveFord]

Could target the immune system or does target the immune system?

People with AIDS didn't bounce right back like a lot of people are doing with this menace.

Last I read the South Koreans were supposedly finding people getting reinfected with it.

[Letitroll98]

Could target the immune system or does target the immune system?

It targets T cells in the lab, uncertain what it does in humans.  Doesn't appear to replicate in T cells like HIV does.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Has anyone tried nebulized ionic or colloidal silver? The worst side effect is supposedly Argyria where the skin can eventually turn blue - but only if the silver builds up in your body over a long period of time. A couple of deep breaths are not likely to cause that to happen.

Silver is antimicrobial, not antiviral to my knowledge.  Plus, it may be toxic to the lungs and cause injury. 

[S Clark]

I didn't say this well, so let me try again.  It seems that we are still a ways from an effective treatment.  Some may be better than others, but nothing seems to be a solution at this point. 

[Tomy2Tone]

Vitamin C, Plaquenil, Silver, zinc, Phosphates, walnut extract, Viagra....
Good grief.  If any of this stuff worked, there's enough cases that anything really effective would have a numerical track record of success. 
I'd say the best hope currently is plasma from survivors.  Passive immunity has been known and used for a very long time.  Just the process of getting the donors and getting the plasma is slow going.   Regardless, the scientist and doctors will find the best options, if there are any.  In the meantime, federally fund all the vaccine options because the drug companies won't if they can't make big bucks from it.

Do you think kmmd is wrong for administering ceftriaxone, zithromax and Plaquenil to his patients?

[Photon46]

Vitamin C, Plaquenil, Silver, zinc, Phosphates, walnut extract, Viagra....
Good grief.  If any of this stuff worked, there's enough cases that anything really effective would have a numerical track record of success. 

One might think so, but one has to distinguish between anecdotal evidence and research based studies that are the gold standard of evidence. In the midst of an epidemic like we're having, doctors are making decisions about drug therapies in the absence of properly conducted research on sufficiently large populations of patients. Those don't happen within the time frame that elapsed so far.

[kmmd]

Deleted

[jtwrace]

My girlfriends father has had his life saved by Plaquenil.  ICU for 3 days and we virtually figured it was the end.  3 days on it and it has been amazing to see the progress so far.  It might not work for everyone but there is certainly merit and I'm grateful for the protocol that these docs have. 

[S Clark]

Of course I don't disagree with trying something- and KMMD is one of the good guys here.  My RN daughter has administered the combo to two of her patients as well... one who went on a respirator a few days later and is still on it, and the other is dead.  That doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it's just as valid as two success stories.  All I mean is that it doesn't seem like a silver bullet. 
To be specific, I'm commenting on the multiple people calling for a treatment because they read something off the internet.   Success in the field and in the lab will move our knowledge forward. 

[Wind Chaser]

Silver... Good grief.  If any of this stuff worked, there's enough cases that anything really effective would have a numerical track record of success.

Okay, to be clear, I am not merely talking about Ag, but how (nano particles) and where (directly to the lungs) it is administered. And for that I seriously doubt there have been any scientific studies, or even attempts to try it with C-19.

Doctors of medication are trained in medicine, you know that shit made by pharmaceutical companies that comes with pages of documented caveats... Anyhow, if I am certain about anything, I know pharmaceutical companies don't care about you or your health. They only care about making $$. And that is the only reason they "try" to mitigate negative side effects is so they don't lose big $$ in court. Not an ideal system is you ask me.

[charmerci]

In the meantime, federally fund all the vaccine options because the drug companies won't if they can't make big bucks from it.

What a wonderful world we live in.

[Tomy2Tone]

Really?  Read up on community acquired pneumonia and susceptibilities of the bacteria to certain antibiotics in your area.  Both patients had infiltrates on their chest xrays.  Was bacterial pneumonia in the differential?  One sentence for ya...BOTH PATIENTS WERE DISCHARGED HOME!

I think that I will stop posting here.

Thanks.

My apologies if you misunderstood my question to SClark. I was the first to thank you for sharing your experience with these two patients in post #138. There are some in the media who want to vilify anyone suggesting doctors should be giving patients plaquenil and S Clarks post came off almost like he was downplaying any success of the drugs mentioned until more trails are proven but after reading his post again I see where he was coming from.

I'm just glad there are doctors willing to give their patients a chance at beating this virus with what's available to them.

[S Clark]

Okay, to be clear, I am not merely talking about Ag, but how (nano particles) and where (directly to the lungs) it is administered. And for that I seriously doubt there have been any scientific studies, or even attempts to try it with C-19.

There does seem to be some interesting work on silver particles and virus attachment.   I went to Google Scholar and did a quick search and pulled up 4-5 abstracts.  I would bet somewhere there is an MD trying it. 

[S Clark]

And again, to be clear,  I would hope that any caretaker would try whatever options are available to them.  But do we know of any statistics yet on Plaquenil? Early studys are mixed, but it's being used now all over the world.  Even without controlled studies, there should be sufficient field data to determine efficacy.

[Wind Chaser]

There does seem to be some interesting work on silver particles and virus attachment.   I went to Google Scholar and did a quick search and pulled up 4-5 abstracts.  I would bet somewhere there is an MD trying it.

I think any physician inclined to try it on a patient would think twice. As for myself I have everything ready should I develop symptoms to the point where breathing becomes difficult. Fortunately there isn’t an outbreak or any reported cases in my area as of yet.

[Randy]

My girlfriends father has had his life saved by Plaquenil.  ICU for 3 days and we virtually figured it was the end.  3 days on it and it has been amazing to see the progress so far.  It might not work for everyone but there is certainly merit and I'm grateful for the protocol that these docs have.

Amazing how the nay-sayers ignore the many success stories like yours - but not really. A lot of people are invested in seeing just how bad things can get.  (Nobody here, however.)

[S Clark]

Amazing how the nay-sayers ignore the many success stories like yours - but not really. A lot of people are invested in seeing just how bad things can get.  (Nobody here, however.)

But the same can be said the other way. 
Hopefully we will find a treatment with a significant and verifiable effect. 

[rollo]

  Whatever works according to ones Doctor should be tried. Too many agendas, accusations and the like. One Doctor says yes yet another no. Whom do you believe and trust ?
  We made that easy we talk to one Doctor OURS. Cannot stress this anymore, if you have a private Doctor listen.


charles

[I.Greyhound Fan]

The issue with Plaquenil is that some people have recovered on it but many more have died.  There are people that have been on a ventilator and gotten better without it, and that is what everyone has to understand.  Not everyone dies that is on a ventilator.  Some people make it and more do not.  You guys are always hearing about the people that got better on plaquenil  but not the ones that have died with plaquenil.  Keep in mind that I am not saying we should not use it.

The patient that I had was a smoker and in his late 50's.  His cat scan showed bilateral ground glass pulmonary infiltrates and the oxygen saturations ranged from 88% to 92%.  He did not require intubation and got better on his own.  One of the lucky ones.

As far as trying different medications and remedies not approved of, this is very risky as you can do more harm as it does not take much to tip patients over the edge.  You may kill some patients that would have gotten better on their own.   You can always say that you have nothing to lose but you do if the remedy is toxic, does more harm or kills you when you would have gotten better without it. 

That is the crux of the dilemma.  I liken it to when I see patients in the ER that have been in severe car accidents and they survived while not wearing their seat belts and they say to me that the police or paramedics told them they would have died if they were wearing their seat belts.  The patient then says that they are never wearing a seat belt again.  I hear this at least 2-3 times a year.  Of course they don't even consider the hundreds of thousands of lives that seatbelts save each year.