[ctviggen]

Roop's sale has me thinking of buying two Larger subs (and, I can sell my current sub, two satellite receivers, extra cabling, and extra speakers to get enough money to buy the two Large subs).  However, I won't be able to afford an extra amp for a while.  Can I run each sub off of one channel of my 5-channel amp (around 120W into 8 ohms and 200W into 4 ohms, although they test at 160W into 8 ohms)?  In other words, I have two free channels of my 5-channel amp and would like to temporarily use one channel per sub.  Would this work?

[zybar]

Roop's sale has me thinking of buying two Larger subs (and, I can sell my current sub, two satellite receivers, extra cabling, and extra speakers to get enough money to buy the two Large subs).  However, I won't be able to afford an extra amp for a while.  Can I run each sub off of one channel of my 5-channel amp (around 120W into 8 ohms and 200W into 4 ohms, although they test at 160W into 8 ohms)?  In other words, I have two free channels of my 5-channel amp and would like to temporarily use one channel per sub.  Would this work?

Bob,

Just like all the other VMPS speakers, the Larger subs like watts and current.   Can't really say how things will sound based on the info you provided.

In this config, you would need to run jumpers from one active woofer to the other, so your amp would see a 4 ohm load.

I use a single Crown K2 to drive both subs.  In this setup, the Crown puts out 800 watts per channel into a 4 ohm load.  If I get another K2, I can run each amp in bridged mono for 2500 watts each!!

I do think the Largers would sound even better in this configuration.

George

[JoshK]

As much as you can give it!  

No seriously, I have no experience with this sub but in general I think it is fair to say that deep bass and subs in general need current, reasonable high dampening factor (unless you like undamped bass) which means a pretty stiff power supply.  Look for amps that double their load with a drop in impedance, that is likely one good sign that it may be an appropriate amp (although not necessarily so).

[ctviggen]

Well, that's a bummer!  That means that not only will I have to buy the subs, but I'll have to buy an amp, too.  I knew I'd have to buy the amp, but it would be nice to delay that purchase (it'll drive me crazy to have two subs just sitting there doing nothing).

[JoshK]

I think you can get away with running them off your current amp for now, I think it will still be good, you just won't be satisfied long term I think.

[ctviggen]

Well, I just checked Audiogon and they had one Crown K2 for $750, but it was sold.  It also appears that someone was using Jeff Rowland 201s to drive subs:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1108178434

[John Casler]

Hi Bob,

I have run the LARGERs with amps as small as 150wpc (AudioSource Monobloc) and they sounded "good" at musical listening levels.

BUT....

To get the best performance at higher SPLs, everyone is right.  You want 500wpc (minimum) and preferably more.

QSC and Crown seem to be favorites of many due to their (relatively) inexpensive availabilty on the used market, and their high power and dampening numbers.

That said, you could use your multi-channel amp for the purpose, but don't expect to hear what the LARGERs can really do until you put them on the "electronic steroids".

A multichannel amp will not have the Power Supply (in most cases) to handle all the speakers "plus" two LARGERs.

I have used a 5 channel CineNova (600wpc @ 4 ohms) for that purpose, and even with a 4.7Kva transformer, it didn't do as well as a seperate amp.

[rosconey]

i ran my large with a 100 wpc harmon kardon amp for the first year-it sounded  great

even if you cant swing a amp now i would grab the subs-they are that
- GOOD-  and use your set up till you could afford a sub only amp or amps-i now use a odyssey mono for each channel with my large and i dont think anyone has a better sounding low end   -

[flintstone]

I use an old Onkyo M-504...plenty of power. The Onkyo has large power meters and you would be surprised at how little power is used 90% of the time. I don't think I have ever gone much over 200 watts peak in my 4600 cubic foot room. My X-over is at 50hz, a higher X-over point would require more power over-all but still hardly a work-out for the Onkyo.

Dave

[ctviggen]

Well, I think someone beat me to Roop's subs, but I might be able to afford new subs.  I've got about $500 coming from unused speaker wire and center channel.  I still have two receivers, other Dish Network stuff, and a sub I could sell.  That money would get me close to two new subs.  My Proceed AVP will do stereo subs, and I have enough unused interconnects and speaker wire to set up the subs.

[rosconey]

buy the sub as a kit from a vmps dealer-roop?still selling-
easy to assemble and you wont find a better sounding sub-

even better yet get the drivers kit and have the guy who does the  20sided sub cabinets fron here to make a custom cabinet-
the tall boy cabinet from the days of old vmps looks very nice


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=13897

[spectralman]

Something you need to consider is that, as one person previously posted, the multichannel amp does not have to power supply to drive the subs as well as its "regular" duties.  If you drive the pr. of subs plus the other channels, the draw on the channels driving the subs will suck the guts out of the entire amp, making it more likely to damage the speakers driven by the other channels, i.e., they may see a more distorted signal.  

I have listened to a single Larger sub on 2 different occasions.  In one instance, a 1000W Cinepro amp was sucked dry.  In the second, a Crown K2 was clipped.  Granted, these were at fairly high listening levels with bass-heavy music on, but you get the picture.

[jimmyp58]

Tke K2 was clipped at one peak moment at a ridiculously high level (not a "fairly" high level); this wouldn't be a predictor for someone to judge overall performance on and especially for two very brief occassions.  I know a gent that was using 2 channels from a CineNova Grande 5 amp and had zero issues powering a larger sub at 'normal' levels for a period of time; he used the other three channels simultaneously to power his center back and side surrounds.  He has since converted to using a K2 and has noticed an improvement in performance but the point is, the "guts" of the Grande 5 were not sucked out with this setup.

I have only used separate amps to power my two larger subs.  I have had since the onset, a K2 powering one and until recently, a Carver PRO ZR1600.  Both performed extremely well.  I recently sold my Carver and switched over to a QSC PLX-3402 and I would say that if I had to rank the three, the QSC is the best followed very closely by the Crown and Carver (which was modded).

Jim

[RGordonpf]

I drive my dual voice coil Larger sub with a pair of Eagle 400 monoblocks (400 watts per channel).  I initially drove them with just one of the monoblocks.  I listen to music at concert hall levels (85-90 dB, with 95-100dB peaks).  Even after hours of listening with bass heavy material, my amps are barely warm, even when I just used the one amp.  This means I am using just a fraction of the 400 watts available.

In my opinion, for ordinary listening, the critical factor for driving the Larger is the amount of instantaneous current the amp puts out rather than the sustainable wattage.  Of course, if you listen to rock n roll at 125dB for hours at time, then gross wattage is important.  

A well designed amp rated a 50 watts could have more instantaneous current available than a poorly designed 500 watt amp.  So looking exclusively at wattage ratings may not get you the best subwoofer amp.

[ctviggen]

I would be using a Bryston 9B, which has 5 completely independent channels (each has its own transformer).  And, it would only be a short-term solution, so that I don't have to buy two subs and one/two amps at the same time.  What I might do is use my SV sub as one (the right) channel and buy one VMPS Larger (for the left channel).  Then, I'd use one channel of my Bryston to power one woofer and another channel to power another woofer, but in mono mode (split the left signal to both channels).  Then, I'd get to mess around with bass settings and placement until I can afford another Larger and one/two amps (and all the darn cabling).  The only problem with this upgrade path is that I think the Large would crush the SV sub.

[woodsyi]

Bob,

One more thing to consider is that you may get more "discount" if you buy 2 at the same time.  It would also be "easier" to place two at the same time since you will only need to go through the process once.  I don't know about you, but I had to rearrange the whole room last time to fit one Larger in a way that my wife would tolerate. In the mean time you can monitor A'gon for used pro amp/s to drive the pair when you get them.  I should've just gotten 2 last time when I had the okay, but I was going to check and see if one was enough.  Now, I am working on getting a second one okayed (again) by the boss!

[jimmyp58]

Bob:

I am not certain if the Larger would crush the SV.  I am not certain the opposite would be true either.  I have not heard an SV sub so I don't know how to compare it but from what I have read, the SV sub is powerful and deep but 'thumpy'; I have not read if it is quick and/or musical.  I don't know if that is how you'd characterize it but that is merely what I have read.  What I have found though is the Larger sub is a far more musical and robust bass producer than any other sub I have owned; it is far quicker as well.  I certainly wouldn't characterize it as 'thumpy'.  I know that if I had a setup with one of my former subs (say, the Def Tech SuperCube Reference --- which I really liked) in the front on one side and a VMPS Larger sub on the other, I would characterize the response as uneven as they would produce two distinctly different bass responses.  I don't know how that would sound overall but I believe in my room setup, I have a feeling I wouldn't like what I would hear because of how different they are.

YMMV but something to consider.  Again, I don't know how an SV sub sounds but perhaps something for you to consider if you haven't heard a Larger sub especially one paired in a setup you are describing.

Just my 2 cents....

Good luck!

Jim

[woodsyi]

Bob,

One more thing to consider is that you may get more "discount" if you buy 2 at the same time.  It would also be "easier" to place two at the same time since you will only need to go through the process once.  I don't know about you, but I had to rearrange the whole room last time to fit one Larger in a way that my wife would tolerate. In the mean time you can monitor A'gon for used pro amp/s to drive the pair when you get them.  I should've just gotten 2 last time when I had the okay, but I was going to check and see if one was enough.  Now, I am working on getting a second one okayed (again) by the boss!

[jpsartre]

Here's my take for what it's worth.  The fact that the Larger is not powered is an advantage if your end goal is to assemble a high-end system. Get the loaded Larger (mega-woof etc) and power it on the cheap until you can upgrade your amplification. Just don't try to go crazy with a 100W amp and end up damaging the woofers.

Now, as to what the Larger can actually use: I power a single Larger (mega-woof) with a bridged Crown K2 (meaning 2500W at 4 Ohms). I still managed to clip the K2 on occasion  but my main problem is things start rattling in the house way before either the K2 or the Larger reach their true potential. So the question is, how much bass is enough? If this was an "urban" car audio forum the answer would be "it's never enough" but given this is an audiophile forum, bass is not just a matter of db's.

Last but not least, if you run any kind of eq on the sub, after you kill the peaks you'll need to pump up the sub volume (in my case by about 10 db) so the extra power sure comes in handy.

To make a long story short, get the Larger(s) now, hands down. You'll be hard pressed to find a better sub at any price point.

[woodsyi]

Hello Jean Paul

I also have a larger and K2 but I am running it "stereo".  Do you find the mono path better? Or is it easier to EQ a mono input?