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brj, oh yeah, no, totally get that. My comment was really just a general one re: dsp across the whole frequency spectrum. The dsp-effected dsd that the hqplayer guy(s) tout is definitely pretty impressive if possible. I don't think the jriver guys think it is
Instead of using a line-level crossover at all why not just audiolense / acourate with a multi-channel dac?
Wow... that turned into a novel. Hope the information is useful to someone...
Color me impressed, at least, because it's definitely working in my system and sounds great. Of course, the interface for HQPlayer is... umm... challenged, but putting Roon in front of it gives you best-in-class music management. That still leaves climbing the HQPlayer learning curve to determine the initial settings, but I was willing to do that, as the sound quality justified it - at least to me.
Two parts to that...The convolution engine in HQPlayer effectively lets me apply any digital filter I care to generate, addressing both frequency and time domain corrections if desired. So on the non-crossover related DSP side of things, I can already do anything that Audiolense can do, and possibly more. (Can Audiolense handle high-res PCM or DSD?)
I just have to generate the filter, which I can do easily with Room EQ Wizard. I entered the driver EQ settings specified by the designer of my speakers into the filter generation section of RoomEQWizard and saved an impulse response filter to a WAV file at 32-bit/192 kHz. (I could have implemented room correction, an overall frequency response "house curve", etc., but I as I mentioned, I likely won't play with that until I've exhausted my room treatment options. I may look at an all-pass filter, however, to see if I can detect the phase correction.) HQPlayer then convolves that high-res impulse response with any resolution PCM or DSD audio source stream and upsamples the output to DSD128, which is the native rate of my DAC. If I was willing to pay for it, I could likely use Audiolense or Dirac to generate the impulse response filters as well, but I'm not aware that they can do it any better (or at higher resolution) than the free Room EQ Wizard.
As for using a multi-channel DAC to implement the crossover in the digital domain... that severely restricts my options. There are orders of magnitude more 2-channel DACs and pre-amps than multi-channel (DSP capable) DACs and pre-amps (especially fully differential multi-channel components). It seems as if DAC designs advance (or at least change) faster than any other audio component, and by staying with 2-channel components until I get through the pre-amp to the analog line-level crossover, I have infinitely more options and can upgrade at will without impacting the rest of my system. Plus, as an example, I can't imagine a multi-channel volume control that would equal the quality of my Bent TAP-X, or at least not for anywhere near the same price. Effectively, my active speaker system end-to-end chain is composed of fully traditional 2-channel components, except that I paid for an (external) analog line-level crossover and a few extra cables instead of an (internal) analog speaker-level crossover.
Eventually, when I'm firmly convinced that I will no longer tweak my crossover settings, I'll likely have an analog line-level crossover built that implements precisely those crossover filters that are finalized following experimentation using the Pass XVR-1. The Pass is very good, for example bypassing any filter poles not used for a given channel so they are removed from the circuit, but with a hardwired line-level crossover I could use Mills resistors to set the tweeter level relative to the woofer rather than the XVR-1's CEC potentiometer. Heck, the values in a line-level crossover are so small compared to a speaker level crossover that I could likely at least look at using audiophool level components.By the way, I bet I would have paid at least as much to build the internal passive speaker-level crossover networks as I did to buy my used Pass XVR-1. And while I had to buy 2 stereo Pass XA30.5 amps for 4 amplification channels total, their used price is almost exactly half that of the used pair of Pass XA60.5 amps that I would have had to step up to (at least) had I gone with the passive version of my speakers. Yes, it's not fair to ignore the extra cabling required in the active configuration, but the point is that my active system is in roughly the same price ballpark as the passive system would have been. (The real price was the time I spent learning all of this, but that's part of the hobby for me.) For a manufacturer, who can eliminate the speaker cables and use a single power supply and power cord to feed all amplification channels built into an active speaker, I have no doubt that you could actually come out firmly ahead on price and performance both, relative to the passive version coupled to a price-appropriate amp and speaker cable.Of course, convincing the average audiophile that the performance achieved by their individual bespoke component selections and semi-random cable selections might be exceeded by a manufacturer's true end-to-end systems oriented design approach... well, that may be the hardest challenge of all. (It makes perfect sense to me... put the speaker designer, amp designer and cable designer under the same roof and in the same design meetings and avoid sending the poor audiophile out to randomly stumble around in search of "synergistic" component/cable combinations.) Andrew and ELAC seem to be threading that needle well by providing all of the options and letting the customer decide.Wow... that turned into a novel. Hope the information is useful to someone...
Audiolense can generate filters at any sample rate you PCM sample rate that you specify.
The beauty in it lies in its simplicity in creating filters applicable to multiple driver systems (so incorporating digital crossovers, not JUST dsp correction). Seriously, when it comes to dealing with phase and my Unity system, it saved me a LOT of time! REW is no doubt great, but Audiolense and Acourate are the way to go if you're trying to do DSP correction PLUS digital crossover design
JRiver has a pretty great 64-bit digital volume control which is exceptionally transparent and works across however many channels you have. I'm guessing HQPlayer has something similar (that also works with DSD?).
Useful to ME, that's for sure! Great dialog, here.
Bringing this thread back from the dead to mention that JBL announced that they are releasing a powered version of their LSR 705/708 with a P ending instead of I. It has the DSP internally and uses class D amps, so no worries about noisy pro amps. I just consolidated two big systems into one big system*, but I am moderately tempted to grab a pair of the 705Ps for my bedroom. * running LR M2s (working out a deal right now for 3rd M2 for center behind my AT screen). 708i for sides, 4x 705i for atmos. I'm running all DCIn amps and in my enclosed free standing rack they aren't very audible at all, ymmv.
Is there anyone who manufactures "audiophile quality" active speakers? I mean someone like a Daedalus or Salk or Vapor Audio or GR Research that typically uses high quality parts and takes aesthetics seriously. As an audiophile, I don't want a cheap $30 plate amp attached to my speakers like most other active monitors. I'd also like to see integrated speaker stands to hide the power cords and ICs for monitors, and full range floor standers to eliminate the need for separate subwoofers (i.e., wife friendly). All of this should be available at a price significantly lower than my current speaker/amp combo without losing fidelity. IMO, if the cost is comparable or higher than what I already have, there's little incentive to consider active speakers.
Those would be surprising little speakers, from all reports. Do you have any idea of MSRP? That's a killer system you are running at the moment. Have you posted your impressions of the M2? I missed it if you did.
Have you seen these? http://www.audiophilia.com/reviews/2016/5/30/audioengine-hd6-premium-powered-speakers?rq=audioengine
side comment: JoshK - Your avatar is freakin' me out, man.
