Thorens TD-125 MK II or VPI HW-19

GentleBender · « **on:** 14 Sep 2015, 03:19 pm »

I am currently looking at these two tables offered to me. So far I am leaning toward the Thorens TD125 MK II modified by Vinyl Nirvana with a modified SME 3009 arm and Linn cartridge. But the VPI HW-19 with the upgraded TNT platter and upgraded new motor is no slouch. The VPI would win if it were a choice of looks (not to say the Thorens is not), but all I care about is the sound and reliability. I'm using a cheap Kenwood KD-2000 belt drive table at the moment and would like this new table to be my final choice.

Any experienced owners opinions are welcome and needed.

rlee8394 · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 06:18 pm »

You can't go wrong with Dave from Vinyl Nirvana. I'm absolutely thrilled with my TD-160 Super Reproduction Midnight Edition.

Ron

galyons · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 06:44 pm »

I have owned both. No comparison, IMO the VPI is a hands down winner by an exponential differential. Really, IMO, an unfair comparison, especially if the HW19 has one of the heavier TNT platters. What arm on the VPI? The Thorens, ( I have TD150, TD160 & TD124) are great vintage kit. The TD124 can be high end, with some work. The electronics on my TD 125 kept going wonky. I finally re-did the board and sold it. Have you listened to either in a comparable situation?

Cheers,
Geary

GentleBender · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 07:07 pm »

No choice of auditioning either since they are in Indiana and I am in Florida.

Don't have any audiophile friends around here either. I trust the seller and he states that the Vinyl Nirvana table is better sounding, but I am also wanting something reliable and not something that is finicky. He says it is not a night/day difference. The Thorens has been restored recently and most people absolutely love their Thorens and still use them 40 years after being made.

I will need to find out what tonearm is on the VPI. Does the HW-19 have any internal electronics? I assume not by looking at photos and a quick look at the owners manual. It looks like nothing but the separate motor. But this is all new to me and I want to get it right.

galyons · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 07:25 pm »

The strength of VPI tables has always been modularity. This allows upgrades long after the table is out of production. Platters, arm, motors, bearing, speed controllers, etc. External electronic speed control is available. Used VPI PLC's can be had for$250-$300. SDS for $750-$900. Phoenix Engineering has controllers available, as well.

I love my Thorens stuff as well. But for serious listening at high end levels, my VPI is the go to deck. The TD150 is matched with a restored Scott tube integrated amp. The TD124 with 45 or 2A3 SET's. Love 'em both for what they are!

Not to pick a fight with the seller, but....he is the SELLER! I would want to move the Thorens first, myself. Never a problem selling used VPI kit at a reasonable price. The HW19 must be set up badly if he thinks the Thorens TD125 is superior. I would never pay anywhere near the price of a well sorted HW19 for a TD125, even if totally restored by elfin engineers from the Black Forest! But then the only ears that you need to please are yours.

Cheers,
Geary

BobRex · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 07:34 pm »

Many years ago I used to use a TD160 with a Grace 707 arm. It was a great table for the late '70s. I also sold Thorens at the time. I then moved on to a very early HW19 (so early, it doesn't have a serial number plate), fitted with an Alphason 1000 tonearm. Over time I did some of the early upgrades (acrylic platter with screw down clamp, double steel plate, replaced feew with counterpoints, and replaced the suspension with Navcom), but the basic character stayed the same. The VPI provided deeper bass, a larger soundstage, and with the acrylic platter and clamp, a reduction in record noise. Yes the Alphason was a substantial step up from the Grace, but I also sold a number of HW19s with different arms, including a few 707s and 747s, so I know how those combinations sounded.

Thorens made (makes) good tables, but the HW19 is better.

GentleBender · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Sep 2015, 11:55 pm »

Thanks guys, this is a tough one for me. So far it is two to one, I think. When I find out what tonearm is on the VPI, I'll let you know. It sounds like it doesn't mater though since it can be replaced.

Rocket · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 01:01 am »

Hi,

If you buy the Thorens make sure that he uses the packaging that Dave from Audio Nirvana used to ship it. Shipping by mail can really damage a turntable I know from experience.

Good luck I've heard that the Audio Nirvana turntables are great. I think there was an article done by Toneaudio on the subject.

Cheers Rod

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 01:02 am »

Yes, the VPI's armboard is replaceable so any number of arms can be mounted. And another vote for the VPI, better sounding by far. But the Audio Nirvana site has some very nice looking tables, so I can understand if someone picks the Thorens. Good luck with whatever you choose.

louie3 · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 01:31 pm »

I've had both. VPI by a substantial margin. I thought my TD125 was great till I got the VPI, there is really no comparison. Parts for the VPI are readily available, armboards are easy to buy or cut yourself, you can run the VPI with spring suspension or no suspension, depending on your situation.

Really, the VPI, especially with all the upgrades is far superior to the 125, at least it was in my system.

I doubt your mileage will vary that much.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 01:34 pm »

Bender,
There is a TD125 at the Trading Post now:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=137269.msg1460258;topicseen#new

bacobits1 · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 02:13 pm »

Although that Thorens is nice I would go for the VPI myself. More versatile as far as arms armboards etc. and less to go wrong electronically.
Just make sure it's packed correctly and well. Better yet if the original VPI packaging is there.
At one time VPI sold the packaging for like 50. Well worth it. If not over pack it even at extra cost. No peanuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lots of bubble wrap the large kind.

AND don't use UPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GentleBender · « **Reply #12 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 03:28 pm »

What no UPS?! The plan is to have it delivered via airlines and picked up directly from the airport by me.

bacobits1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 03:34 pm »

There ya gooooooo.

GentleBender · « **Reply #14 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 03:48 pm »

If you haven't seen the tables in the "Turntable Packing Wall of Shame" on Vinyl Nirvana's website, you should look at the horror. It makes me sad that so many people think a thin box with some newspaper or bubble wrap will protect anything.

http://vinylnirvana.com/vintage-turntables-for-sale/turntable-packing-wall-of-shame/

bacobits1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Sep 2015, 04:04 pm »

Unfortunately there are a lot of really really stoopid ignorant people out there.
AND they get paid a lot of money.

ACHiPo · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Oct 2015, 01:35 am »

Quote from: GentleBender on 14 Sep 2015, 11:55 pm

Thanks guys, this is a tough one for me. So far it is two to one, I think. When I find out what tonearm is on the VPI, I'll let you know. It sounds like it doesn't mater though since it can be replaced.

GB,
What did you end up with? What are your thoughts? I'm looking at a used HW-19 Mark III with an SME tonearm as a second table for mono and want to get a feel for whether it would be a good choice.
AC

pumpkinman · « **Reply #17 on:** 18 Oct 2015, 01:46 am »

I had a Thorens TD-160 w/ Rega RB-300 arm. I'm now spinning a HW-19 MK III w/ upgraded platter, suspension and a SME tonearm.

Like an Egyptian Pharaoh I'm hoping I can be buried with my VPI I'll need in the afterlife.

The Thorens are great tables but I prefer my VPI

Like always my opinion and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee.

P-man

ACHiPo · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Oct 2015, 03:52 am »

Quote from: pumpkinman on 18 Oct 2015, 01:46 am

I had a Thorens TD-160 w/ Rega RB-300 arm. I'm now spinning a HW-19 MK III w/ upgraded platter, suspension and a SME tonearm.

Like an Egyptian Pharaoh I'm hoping I can be buried with my VPI I'll need in the afterlife.

The Thorens are great tables but I prefer my VPI

Like always my opinion and $1.25 will get you a cup of coffee.

P-man

Thanks P-man. This deck supposedly has an SME-V arm, which seems a little high end for the table? Still waiting for pics, so not getting too worked up just yet.

Are you running the sorbothane suspension?

pumpkinman · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Oct 2015, 03:57 am »

Quote from: ACHiPo on 18 Oct 2015, 03:52 am

Thanks P-man. This deck supposedly has an SME-V arm, which seems a little high end for the table? Still waiting for pics, so not getting too worked up just yet.

Are you running the sorbothane suspension?

Yes I am and I sold the springs to a very nice guy in Austrailia for what I spent on the sorbothane upgrade.