[murphy11]

Just got off the phone with Larry at Comart and ordered an Astron 11a with the 9v output. Larry was super nice. Thanks Chris!

So how do you guys hook this up to your ifi itube? Is it a cable you make? If so, whatcha gotta do?

Pretty sure this would work  http://www.parts-express.com/detachable-mini-plug-kit--120-537?AID=1457483&PID=5567334&SID=skim23608X823435X1999328b547b9cfcb612a17f5fa37273  I use it with my Astron to power my 3116 amp.

[OzarkTom]

Just got off the phone with Larry at Comart and ordered an Astron 11a with the 9v output. Larry was super nice. Thanks Chris!

So how do you guys hook this up to your ifi itube? Is it a cable you make? If so, whatcha gotta do?

Rex and I are using the reality cables $60 cryo'd power cord. That made another improvement of 30-40% on the iTube over a stock cord. It was well worth it.

[Tomy2Tone]

Rex and I are using the reality cables $60 cryo'd power cord. That made another improvement of 30-40% on the iTube over a stock cord. It was well worth it.

I'm going to order one of those when I send in everything to get cryoed.

I was watching some videos today on cryogenic treatment and it looked like liquid nitrogen was the primary source for the cooling. Do they have different methods for audio purposes I wonder? I was amazed at how many different fields of use that people use cryo for, from hunting rifles to auto parts.

[jk@home]

Ozark, have you done a comparison on Cryo'd units?

Tomy2Tone has his done but can't compare. I've been looking for more possible mods but there isn't a lot one can do on these. Even what might be possible takes more serious gear than I use at home.

Replacing the RCA jacks could be not too hard. I'm not sure what the benefits would be.

To me the best way to feed signal that I can come up with is not to circumvent the balanced input by using simple non-transformer adapters. I think if you used a transformer to convert single ended to balanced and fed it with balanced connection, you'd have the best sound. It could be worth a shot.

No one has had me modify for Ponoma posts. If I do it (and charge), I'll be attempting to make it copper the whole way. As is the signal does pass through steel a little bit; but obviously it isn't hard to beat the stock unusable form.

The Jensen Iso-Max units are nice, I have used them before to convert unbalanced to balanced (and visa versa). Course they cost almost as much as a 1500.

Last night I soldered on the metal, high current Neutrik Speakon connectors (NLT4FX-BAG) onto my Canare 4S11 cable. Man, that's a nifty connector. Thinking the sound quality went up a notch also.

[DaveC113]

I just got some Furutech top-end RCA jacks for my preamp and plan on moving a pair of the DH Labs ultimate copper RCA jacks currently in my preamp over to the Crown. I also have the lower end copper/rhodium Furutech IEC inlet for the Crown. It won't be difficult but the PCB needs to be removed and the jacks all need to be unsoldered from the PCB and wires added, which I will keep as short as possible. I'll also wire the Pomona binding posts with copper wire instead of the steel tabs. That should get rid of all the steel and make for a nice improvement.

[rodge827]

I just got some Furutech top-end RCA jacks for my preamp and plan on moving a pair of the DH Labs ultimate copper RCA jacks currently in my preamp over to the Crown. I also have the lower end copper/rhodium Furutech IEC inlet for the Crown. It won't be difficult but the PCB needs to be removed and the jacks all need to be unsoldered from the PCB and wires added, which I will keep as short as possible. I'll also wire the Pomona binding posts with copper wire instead of the steel tabs. That should get rid of all the steel and make for a nice improvement.

Great idea! Pure copper through and through. 

[rodge827]

Just got off the phone with Larry at Comart and ordered an Astron 11a with the 9v output. Larry was super nice. Thanks Chris!

So how do you guys hook this up to your ifi itube? Is it a cable you make? If so, whatcha gotta do?

I had a few old wall warts laying around that matched up with the power input, took out a pair of scissors and...

Pretty sure this would work  http://www.parts-express.com/detachable-mini-plug-kit--120-537?AID=1457483&PID=5567334&SID=skim23608X823435X1999328b547b9cfcb612a17f5fa37273  I use it with my Astron to power my 3116 amp.

Nice cord should work fine.

[Folsom]

I just got some Furutech top-end RCA jacks for my preamp and plan on moving a pair of the DH Labs ultimate copper RCA jacks currently in my preamp over to the Crown. I also have the lower end copper/rhodium Furutech IEC inlet for the Crown. It won't be difficult but the PCB needs to be removed and the jacks all need to be unsoldered from the PCB and wires added, which I will keep as short as possible. I'll also wire the Pomona binding posts with copper wire instead of the steel tabs. That should get rid of all the steel and make for a nice improvement.

You may have to cut up some flat inductor to get something to the slots for the speaker binding post wire connection

Yes and no on binding posts. Due to skin effect, you're faced with having to use different nuts and washers too, to avoid steel. It doesn't matter how the wire is connected. Use two nuts, one to lock the other.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-nuts/=vkl6xy

The outside needs a washer with smaller hole so the post mounts flush.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-washers/=vkl7nv

[Tomy2Tone]

I had a few old wall warts laying around that matched up with the power input, took out a pair of scissors and...

I think I have a few of those too hiding in boxes somewhere...great idea! Thanks!

[OzarkTom]

The cryo amp is now on and warming up.

[rodge827]

The cryo amp is now on and warming up.

Anxious to know what you hear...

[mjosef]

Alright let me wrap up my now concluded experience with the XLS, life does tend to get in the way sometimes...


XLS vs Rest...

System chain: Yamaha 1800 SACD/CD source> CAT SL1 >XLS/XTi >VMPS 626R

Continung full range on the 626R...With XLS/stereo-bypass mode.  Piano not sounding 'right', lacks weight on the notes. Female voices a bit too light. Stringed instruments lacking body. Soundstage decent, good depth and width.
Switching to Xti/DSP Bypass Mode: Fuller, richer midrange, upper bass, mid bass ranges , Xti has better weight in these areas. Larger, deeper soundstage...not a subtle improvement, easy to hear.
Winner Xti vs XLS running full range/Bypass mode on RM626R.

Onto biamping mode on VMPS RM1 whiuch I normally run with a Marchand X/O (@250Hz)after the CAT pre to power the mid/hi panels via my tube amp, with the Xti driving the twin 8" bass drivers. No Marchand X/O used with the XLS/Xti combo, not needed.
Crossover set to lowpass @320Hz on the XLS powering the twin 8" bass drivers, and Hipass set at   320Hz on the Xti powering the mid-hi drivers.  Sound OK kinda flat, empty. Percussion is good.
Reversed positions, Xti on the bass drivers and XLS on the mid-hi panels, adjusting the amps' x/o's hipass to low pass and vice versa. better, but not quite filled out. Midrange still sounds a bit light.
Best combo was with the XLS hipassed at 250Hz and the Xti low passed 320Hz /6dB slope. Why the overlap? The mid panel drops off about 5-6dB from 400Hz to 315Hz. The 6dB slope and the overlap more closely follows VMPS original first order crossover.
Holly Cole's voice on "I can see clearly now" had a fuller tone with the piano notes sounding richer and more 'real'.  Tuck's guitar string had more resonance and decay. The soundstage had nice depth and width, but height was lower than I usually get. Soundstage dimensions is important to me because my space is small, 11x14.
The XLS did not do it for me in my set up, I found it lacking weight, texture, richness, liquidity... call it something(s) all through the mid/hi-bass up through the midrange spectrum. It made the piano sound somewhat 'hollow' and glossy, voices 'lighter'.  It clearly needs reinforcement in the upper bass/low midrange area.

The Xti is the better amp imo, comes with a full DSP engine which makes it more suitable as a sub/woofer amp. Even full range its sound trumps the XLS1500, very surprising to me I expected the XLS to be closer in comparison. Hearing the XLS driving the mid/hi panels above 320Hz. was quite an ear opener, however I think its the mid/upper bass area that contributes most of the body/weight tone which I felt is where the XLS came up short.  Maybe the XLS2000/2500 with its beefier p/s might offer more body and weight to the mids and bass?

After boxing up the XLS and going back to my usual set up, tubes up top, Xti on the bass...the cons of the XLS sticks out like a sore thumb. But its a great value, it bettered the ClassD Audio CDA 254, made it sound 'dull' in comparison.
Bear in mind my ears may be older than others' on here and my system may not be on par with many...so your mileage will most certainly vary, as already shown herein.

Connections used: XLR in. SpeakOn out.
Primary test disc : Clarity Cable LV2009 demo disc.
Tracks: 2. 'Fever' Peggy Lee,
7. 'I can see clearly now' Holy Cole Trio. ,
10. 'Summertime' Ella & Louis.
11. 'Papa was a rollin' stone' GRP All Stars.
13. 'They can't take that away from me' Tuck & Patti.
16. 'Jesus gonna be here' Five Blind Boys of Alabama.
17. 'Flight of the Cosmic Hippo' Bela Fleck.
18. 'Will the Circle be unbroken' Nitty Gritty Dirt Band

[a.wayne]

Appreciate the effort easy to follow along with  your indepth approach and  conclusion , i had decided on the xti for bass due to its more extensive DSP unit , this makes the decision easier ......


Regards

[Odal3]

Been using the Crown XLS 2000 for a little while both as a sub amp as well as with full range. Been very happy so far. Main observation for those who haven't had a chance to try it yet, your pre-amp makes a huge impact on the sound. If it can't deliver the pro level inputs, it sounds like the dynamics takes a hit in full-range (regardless if efficient bookshelves or more hard to drive speakers), and the "punch" sufferes with subwoofers. I'll guess this may differ on system, but if it didn't sound good with gain at 1, it didn't matter if I crank up the gain to the max. Yes - more volume, but "lifeless" sound. Then on the other hand, with proper input, I agree with all the positive reviews in this and other threads. It is a lot of good sound for the money. So if you don't like the sound at first, play around with some different pre-amps (or line level converter boxes, which I haven't tried myself)

I don't have anything fancy to compare with (but the rest of you have already covered this), so this is more for those with more budget-level equipment at home:
CDP or Computer via DAC (without pre-amp) resulted in lifeless sound

Using my old Pioneer Elite AVR pre-outs was neither a hit (but that was expected since it doesn't sound too good by itself either)

Using the DAC/pre-out on a Peachtree Audio Nova cleaned-up the sound and sounded pretty good but thin.

My favorite was when I "stole" the cheap LittleBear P3 tube preamp that I have been using with my TPA3116 amp. It definitely brought out the mids and bass better on the crown - perhaps some tube "distortion" is good Same thing happened on my TPA3116 amp, which was lifeless and thin on the low end until I put in this preamp. As someone else mentioned, tube preamps seems to work really well with class d. This particular preamp has been criticized for the huge gain and sensitive volume control (not to mention it's diy look) when used with consumer level amps, but this is exactly what makes it a great match with the Crowns. I'm sure there are many better preamps out there but for the $50 I paid for the preamp (new) combined with $160 + shipping for a used XLS, I have a really nice sounding system for less than $250!

mjosef - thanks for the input and good comparison. I'm happy with the xls for now, but been eying the used xti market to get some more advanced dsp for sub duty or alternatively to use it as you tested for bi-amping with the xls. Read that the fan is rather noisy. Is it bearable, or do you need to put the xti in a different room?

[mjosef]

Read that the fan is rather noisy. Is it bearable, or do you need to put the xti in a different room?

It comes on only when being pushed hard, then its audible from 10ft. away during quieter passages in the music or between tracks, if its loud rock or dance music I doubt you will hear it.  Its a 48v. fan, so not easy to find quieter replacement, I may try an inline resistor to see if I can cut the RPM some...the speed is variable, ie it kicks on high then throttles down.

[OzarkTom]

What model number is the XTI? I found a couple of used 4000's for $550 each.

[mjosef]

You need the 2 series, 1002, 2002, 3002, 4002...I have the 1002
http://www.crownaudio.com/usa/amplifiers/xti-2-series.html

[OzarkTom]

I have had the cryoamp playing now for 24 hours. Here is my results on my Zellaton speakers.

Cryo amp with stock binding posts-More detail which means bigger soundstage and more depth. Hight of soundstage is much higher. It does sound slightly clinical. It was very clinical sounding last night, maybe it will be better after another 24 hours. Time also to change those binding posts, that will help.

Salis Audio 1500 with Pomona binding posts-very natural sounding and has all the magic and emotion that I prefer.  Soundstage is good, but not quite as good as the cryo amp. This round goes to the Salis Audio amp because of the magic.

Now if we can get both strengths in one amp, that will be perfect.

[jk@home]

Been using the Crown XLS 2000 for a little while both as a sub amp as well as with full range. Been very happy so far. Main observation for those who haven't had a chance to try it yet, your pre-amp makes a huge impact on the sound. If it can't deliver the pro level inputs, it sounds like the dynamics takes a hit in full-range (regardless if efficient bookshelves or more hard to drive speakers), and the "punch" sufferes with subwoofers....

I agree based on my limited experience with this amp. But it doesn't have to be tubed, a clean high gain SS pre also does well.

I have found that adding on components in the signal chain to make the amp "work" would degrade the sound in my setup. Tried the single end outputs of my NuForce MCP-18 preamp into a Jensen Isomax tranny box to produce a balanced output to the Crown, and/or adding my Dodds buffer after my DAC (with the Goldpoint attenuator removed out of the circuit). Either of these added no improvement and reduced the performance. These amps shine due to their extreme resolution per price of admission, it doesn't make sense to work against that.

That said, as mjosef alludes to in his review, these amps are not voiced to some audiophile speakers. So that has to be accounted for and solved one way or another, for the amp to work in any particular system.

The fact that the amps have virtually no fan noise, and they can be left powered on 24/7 is great. Since my system is now all SS,  I just turn on/off my Squeezebox for music, very convenient.

[Odal3]

I would like to try that too so what would be a good pro audio preamp/mixer with balanced outputs that matches the price-performance ratio of the crown? In fact, a few extra channels for an occasional addition of an instrument (in a different system) would actually be a plus for me as long as the form factor is small. Tried an older Presonus Audiobox USB but since that is more designed to be an economical and portable recording to computer solution with mic preamp, I found it to be clipping a bit when used with the crown.

Thanks for the info on the XTI fan. On the XLS, I have only noticed the fan to turn on once and that was when I played with the high pass settings and had it at close to 3000hz