[dminches]

Thanks for the links, Nick and Ted. I didn't realize the PPA wide pico was a bit more involved than a standard pico that I used for my first build. It sounds like the SMPS need to have more juice than what I am using now.

[NickS]

Given that the highly regarded Apacer ECC DDR3-1066, CL7 memory is more rare than Unobtainium, can anyone recommend "close second" memory for a prospective S1200KPR based build?

[dminches]

Given that the highly regarded Apacer ECC DDR3-1066, CL7 memory is more rare than Unobtainium, can anyone recommend "close second" memory for a prospective S1200KPR based build?

This is what I purchased.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002N4RKTK/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[TJHUB]

Given that the highly regarded Apacer ECC DDR3-1066, CL7 memory is more rare than Unobtainium, can anyone recommend "close second" memory for a prospective S1200KPR based build?

I bought Crucial RAM with the same specs:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VZL6WK/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=

I don't know if it's as good, but I'm happy.  I think there are MANY of variables with a MUCH bigger impact on the sound than RAM, but I could be wrong...

[TJHUB]

Here is the one that I discovered following Terry's advice:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BX4J9O/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3VVSNFYKYYMUQ

Keep in mind that you will likely also require a Molex splitter if you don't already have one hanging around:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000067SCY/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I had a Molex splitter to start, but once I powered my SSD with the Anker battery, I removed the splitter.  I use the 4 pin Molex from the pico for the CPU cable, and a SATA to 4 pin Molex adapter on my PPA card.  Cleaner with less wires inside. 

[randytsuch]

Randy, yes he was asking about Terry's mobo.  Mine has the wide pico too (I replaced the standard one I bought at PHT with the wide one; I use an Asus P8H77-I mobo for my Zuma).  I was not as astute as Nick, so I had to wait until I later ordered the 12V 4 pin cpu connector/Molex adapter.

By the way, I tried the new FSP and both yesterday (cold, new) and today (plugged in for 24 hours) the thing spits  and sizzles with a background noise that sounds like morse code.  It's going back to Amazon.  I'm 0-for-2.   Hynes rules!

Hey Ted.
I figured that out and deleted by post, but I guess you were answering while I was deleting, so it looks funny now.

For myself, I'm trying to decide if I want to go with a wide voltage input type pico.  The advantage to me of a wide voltage pico is that I could build a simple unregulated linear supply to feed it.  Basically a transformer, two or four diodes and a few caps would do the trick.  Could add a high current inductor if I wanted to filter the output a little.

Or I use a 12VDC input pico.  This would need to be a regulated PS, so I need everything for an unregulated supply, and then add a high current linear regulator along with some heatsinking to dissipate the power.  I think the advantage with this approach is that you should get a cleaner 12v rail.  This would also let me split up the 12v rail, so I could have a separate 12v reg for the processor and one for everything else.

Seems like people have had success using both the wide input and 12vdc picos.  I don't think I've seen people talk about using unregulated power supplies, which to me is a good fit with the wide input pico.

Decisions decisions

Randy

[dminches]

Randy, I wish I understood what you were talking about  .

What is the difference between the regular and wide pico?  I guess I should understand since I bought one.

And, what do I need to power it if I am not going to get anything fancy right now?

[ted_b]

Regular pico takes a 12V power supply.  The wide ones that Terry and I use take 12V-25V (I use 19V from Hynes).

[TJHUB]

Randy, I wish I understood what you were talking about  .

What is the difference between the regular and wide pico?  I guess I should understand since I bought one.

And, what do I need to power it if I am not going to get anything fancy right now?

There's no genius here.  A standard pico has a 12V input only.  The wide input pico can handle a range of voltages.  In the case of the 120-WI-25, it can take 12V to 25V on the input.  There are supposedly some sonic advantages, but I don't know anyone that has actually heard a difference.  I chose the wide input because it measured incredibly well when combined with the FSP SMPS (120-AAB).   Things are working very well for me.

Another advantage of the wide input pico is that higher voltages need less current. So in the case of my FSP, it is 19V with only 6.32A.  When looking into linear power supplies, it's cheaper with less current.  I was thinking about a KECES 19V, 6A that is only $300.  The problem is no linear sounds the same, and therefore some don't sound good.  They scare me.  I'm staying with my FSP. 

[Nick77]

Just wondering if putting the whole machine on battery power negates some of the emphasis of powering items separately or does the board manage to muck things up no matter whats its feed??

Of course Chris (CA) had positive results with Black Lighting unit hooked up powering whole unit. Do you achieve even more with individual batteries??

Thoughts or tests??

[TJHUB]

Just wondering if putting the whole machine on battery power negates some of the emphasis of powering items separately or does the board manage to muck things up no matter whats its feed??

Of course Chris (CA) had positive results with Black Lighting unit hooked up powering whole unit. Do you achieve even more with individual batteries??

Thoughts or tests??

When I first got the Anker, I bought it to power the PPA card.  Because it had 2 outputs, I tested it powering both the PPA card, and the SSD.  The sound was horrible. I tried just the PPA card, and while the sound was better than powering both devices, it was still horrible.  Powering just the SSD with the Anker is magical. 

After Christmas, I'll have another battery pack to test if a separate battery on the PPA card will work, but previous testing seems to show my PPA card hates these batteries and loves the pico. 

The next step that could be interesting is to power just the CPU with a battery or linear.  I've read success stories with a couple of people, but I'm not sure if I'll try it or not.

While a battery supply worked with the Atom based CAPS severs, I'm not so sure that it's very practical with the higher powered machines.  But if you'd like to read a 400 post thread on the subject of linear and battery power for higher powered machines, here it is:

http://jplay.eu/forum/computer-audio/linear-power-supply-for-pico-psu-anyone-done-this/

[dminches]

Terry, one of the things I am going to try is to power the PPA card with a channel islands audio VCD-5 which is normally used for a squeezebox touch.  I am figuring that if it cleans up the sound for a touch it should do the same for the PPA.  I'll report back.

[Nick77]

             I tried just the PPA card, and while the sound was better than powering both devices, it was still horrible.                                       

Yikes, thats what i bought to power my PPA. 

[TJHUB]

Yikes, thats what i bought to power my PPA. 

You should still try it.  Not everyone's setup responds exactly the same way.  My PPA card favors the pico over ANYTHING I've tried, and not by a narrow margin. 

Let us know what happens. 

[ted_b]

Nick, although our findings are, so far, somewhat preliminary, it seems that the mains power (i.e motherboard, cpu) which is typically 12V or more, requires clean power, but not necessarily expensive linears or espensive batteries.  Why not?  Because internal to the pc is a dc-dc converter (picopsu) that is usually a cheap unit that sends noisy (for audiophiles) power downstream to the various power headers (like cpu, motherboard, SSD, PCIe card, etc).  So the question remains:  are good linears or good batteries required simply to keep the whole audio system from having noise on it, or is it enough to simply power the mains with a decent SMPS and put your money toward separately powering those things that are easily accessed and proven to be sonically rewarding. 

SSD and USB cards are the easiest to separately power cuz they are accessible and require a 5V power supply, something available via Anker batteries, iFi power and several good inexpensive linears out there.  The SSDs and USB cards also seem to return the highest value when separately powering, as they respond wonderfully to separate regulated power.

Terry and I (small sample) have found that battery power is good for the SSD, and not necessarily good in all cases for the USB card.  The SOtM card I own (although not currently installed) reacted well with its purposely-built SOtM battery pack, but the PPA card seems to not like batteries, at least that is what Terry reports.  My PPA is powered by a Red Wine modded Acopian ac-based 5V ps.

All this being said, I have yet to find a clean SMPS to power my mains.  I am 0-for-2 on using Terry's recommended (and web recommended) FSP brick as it send very noisy hash into my speakers.  My Hynes is dead quiet, but is in high demand and I could get $1k for it if I found a less expensive solution.  A perfect solution would be to make your own ATX cable loom (with the right delays to turn on the cpu at the right time...that is the bummer) and then have Vinnie build a Red Wine battery that has multiple rails to separately power each and every spot (12V, 5V, 5V, 3V, etc).

[Nick77]

Okay thanks, i have no backup plan if battery isnt good option for PPA card. Maybe need to think about linear backup. 

[ted_b]

Okay thanks, i have no backup plan for battery powering PPA card. Maybe need to think about linear backup. 

Use the internal Molex (assuming you bought the standard Pico or bought a Molex y-adapter for the wide pico) to power it and use the ordered Anker to power your SSD.

[randytsuch]

One think I would like to point out is that not all "pico" power supplies are the same.

The PPA one
http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2013/09/dc-to-atx-160w-psu.html

specs an input voltage of 16 - 24 VDC as the input voltage.

These appear to come from a company called pico-box
http://www.pico-box.com/products.html

The "real" pico power supplies are made by mini box
http://www.mini-box.com/PicoPSU-120-WI-25-12-25V-DC-DC-ATX-power-supply

And I'm not saying one is better than the other, just saying you need to be careful and make sure you understand the specs for the ps you have or bought.

With a 16-24 volt input supply, the 19v FSP will be fine
http://www.amazon.com/FSP-Group-Power-Adapter-FSP120-AAB/dp/B009US1KQQ

FYI, the FSP as a AC to DC convertor.  IOW, it takes AC from the wall, and this one converts wall power to 19VDC.  You connect the 19VDC to your pico, and the pico generated the voltages that the motherboard needs.

The other thing you need to look at is the power, the FDC is a 120w output PS.  I would consider this the minimum power you need.  You can go higher power, usually at more cost though.
For instance
http://www.amazon.com/FSP-Group-Power-Adapter-FSP180-ABAN2/dp/B00F4O155Q/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_3
this has more power but at additional cost.

I plan to build my own linear ps, I've built many power supplies and other diy audio gear in the past, slowing building a tube amp right now.  Sorry if I get too technical when I discuss my diy PS.

Randy

[Nick77]

Use the internal Molex (assuming you bought the standard Pico or bought a Molex y-adapter for the wide pico) to power it and use the ordered Anker to power your SSD.

Im using the Atom based DN2800 and bought the USB to molex cable from PPA. Ill have to figure out best results with battery to SSD or USB card. Thanks...

[ted_b]

And I'm not saying one is better than the other, just saying you need to be careful and make sure you understand the specs for the ps you have or bought.


Randy

Randy. The only reason we have been bandying about the FSP model is because that specific model was tested as a perfect mate with the specific pico we have been referencing.  IOW, the understanding of mating a ps with a pico has been documented, and mentioned a couple times on this thread.

Yes, Paul's pico might be a bit cleaner.  I'm not sure what he's added (filtering,e tc) to the pico-box stock one.