Starting a CAPS v3 build

Nick77 · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 08:02 pm »

This is the one im getting, Intel DN2800MTE for extended life.

http://www.logicsupply.com/components/motherboards/intel-atom/dn2800mte/

randytsuch · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 09:30 pm »

Quote from: dminches on 18 Dec 2013, 02:12 pm

Randy, can't you also just use a ribbon cable? That's what I did with my FC-10 build. The bracket attaches to the case and the ribbon cable connects the card to the mobo.

To do it correctly, it should be impedance controlled cable. As long as it is, then you are OK. I'm not sure if the cheap chinese stuff is impedance controlled.

BTW, I think that chassis you found is made by Streacom. I would guess that perfect home theater has an agreement to sell them under different marking, and can't say who the real manufacturer is. But the pictures are too close for it to be made from someone else.

That's also probably why perfect home theater isn't selling the Streacom FC8, they are selling this version instead.

Randy

dminches · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 10:32 pm »

I have never seen an impedance controlled cable.

TJHUB · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 10:45 pm »

I've owned a couple of CAPS designs, and I now run one based on the S1200KPR. There are pluses to running a more powerful audio PC, but great sound can be had from the Atom based boards as well. My CAPS v3 Lagoon sounded its best running Windows Server 2012 in Core mode. WS2012 seemed to run faster and certainly more stable than Windows 8 Pro 64.

Marcin (from JPLAY), and Phil (from Highend-AudioPC) now believe reduced errors and quality of hardware improve sound more than just speed. This is why they are running XEON processors and ECC RAM.

Paul Pang's USB card is every bit as good, if not better, sounding as the MUCH more expensive SOtM model. Regardless, you will not get the most out of your audio PC without one of these USB cards (if using USB that is). I've tried a couple of times, and using these cards gives so much more clarity, and everything that goes along with clarity.

I have the PPA v2 USB card, and I cannot find a linear power supply that sounds better than it being powered by my wide input picoPSU and FSP SMPS. What really brings the magic is powering my OS SSD with an Anker E4 USB battery pack. I've had 2 friends try it for themselves, and they both now do the same. It's by far the biggest improvement I've ever heard from any power supply, software, or hardware tweak. It's truly amazing. The clarity, tone, and detail is better than anything I've heard from any audio PC I've had.

I'm also not a fan of JPLAY as I've actually heard it make the sound worse in my setups, but 5.1 on my WS2012 Lagoon sounded much better. That wasn't true of my latest build, but now 5.2 is an absolute must for me now. I wish it wasn't true, but it sure is. I'm going to have to buy it soon...

The Intel DN2800MT is end of life. It is now in the extended life cycle called the DN2800MTE. There are also other manufacturers with identical boards under other model numbers. Logic Supply had them all when I last looked.

I'm not saying the things I've stated are absolutes, but it's working better for me than anything I've ever done. I wished I had tried powering the OS SSD with the battery pack before moving to my new build. I bet it would have been amazing. I don't miss the power limitations of the Atom processors though. They work ok, but just barely.

As always, YMMV...

dminches · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 10:52 pm »

Great comments - thanks. That should be a sticky!

Can you tell me what a FSP SMPS is? Also, do you think that an iFi USB PS should work as well at the Anker E4?

Finally, what do you use to connect the PPA USB card to the mobo or you you insert it directly in?

David

TJHUB · « **Reply #25 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: dminches on 18 Dec 2013, 10:52 pm

Great comments - thanks. That should be a sticky!

Can you tell me what a FSP SMPS is? Also, do you think that an iFi USB PS should work as well at the Anker E4?

Finally, what do you use to connect the PPA USB card to the mobo or you you insert it directly in?

David

The FSP SMPS is a FSP brand model number 120-AAB switching power supply. It is 19V, 6.32A feeding a 120-WI-25 wide input picoPSU.

Ted_b tested both the iFi and the Anker, but I don't know if he could tell us one is better than the other, but he might. I've never had the iFi, so I can't comment. The Anker battery works so great, it's so cheap, and I'm getting over 200 hours of listening time between charges. I actually think it's more, but I run out of ambition to keep track it lasts so long.

I built my audio PC around the Streacom FC8 (non-EVO) case, so my PPA card is directly plugged in.

randytsuch · « **Reply #26 on:** 18 Dec 2013, 11:38 pm »

Quote from: dminches on 18 Dec 2013, 10:32 pm

I have never seen an impedance controlled cable.

I wasn't sure about them either, but I did a search today, they do exist, and specifically for carrying high speed digital signals like PCIE. I'm pretty sure they aren't cheap though, which is why I wonder if the extenders like you have use this type of special ribbon cable.

BTW, the little PWB could have the same problem. The designer and manufacturer have to make special considerations to do impedance control, but most of the work is in the design, and you only need to do that once, so I figure there is a better chance they did it on the PWB.

Randy

bprice2 · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 03:49 pm »

I'm thinking about going this route as well. What's the ballpark figure we're looking at for a CAPS build?

dminches · « **Reply #28 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 03:54 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 19 Dec 2013, 03:49 pm

I'm thinking about going this route as well. What's the ballpark figure we're looking at for a CAPS build?

$800 - $1100 for the hardware

randytsuch · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 04:12 pm »

Quote from: bprice2 on 19 Dec 2013, 03:49 pm

I'm thinking about going this route as well. What's the ballpark figure we're looking at for a CAPS build?

I would say depends.
I am really no longer building a CAPS V3, building something similar but different and more expensive.

There are different versions of CAPS V3, and many variations of those versions.

What were you thinking?

A better question might be how much do you want to spend, and then figure out what you can get for the money.

I started out with a budget of around $600, but my current budget is at least $200 more.

This is on the low side, it includes a larger 250g Samsung SSD, but doesn't include the PCIE-USB adapter card which most people consider a must for good sound.

Randy

WGH · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 04:51 pm »

I spend 1-1/2 hours last night reading about using an Anker E4 rechargeable USB battery pack to run the SSD. Once I get the PPA USB card up and running this may be next.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/cheap-music-server-power-tweak-very-good-18057/

Wayne

bprice2 · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 07:48 pm »

Thanks, guys. I appreciate your input on this, but after snapping back to reality I realize that I already have a pretty long list of project$ lined up. The roof, the mortar repair, the french drain, the dog's surgery, the '65 camper restoration....

I'll just have to live vicariously through you guys for a while.

Bear · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 09:44 pm »

CAPS v4, with an outboard power supply/battery for the critical components? With RFI/EMI shielding.

ted_b · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Dec 2013, 10:17 pm »

Terry (tjhub) and I talk all the time, and with the help of Marcin (Jplay) and Phil (Audiophile Optimizer) we are testing all kinds of things. Terry tests some things, I test others.

Lately he has been a step ahead of me, especially with his Intel S1200KPR-based server (Xeon, etc). He runs a single pc, I run a CAPS V3 Lagoon (my Caps V2_ build I wrote about) into a CAPS Zuma-like audiopc.

We both have been experimenting with various 5V power supplies. Right now, gun to my head, I would say that the Anker Astro E4 and my modded (7V to 5V, thanks Sonore) SOtM dual battery pack are basically identical and the best power supplies for running an SSD with external power (which is the FIRST thing one needs to do when building a server these days). The iFi does a great job too, but it's 4x the cost of an Anker Astro E4.

I also separately power my PPA V1 card (using a modded Acopian 5V power supply that Vinnie Rossi from Red Wine built for me for other projects years ago). I power each pc with Hynes linear power, the CAPS Lagoon using a Hynes SR3-12 and the Zuma using a Hynes SR7-EHD dialed all the way up to 19V, and using it into a Picopsu dc-dc converter in wide mode (16-24V). I changed the Zuma to the wide pc cuz Paul Pang found that higher voltage ps's, which need less current, is good for everything, especially sonics. AND...as a bonus, now that my Zuma accepts 19V I can try and obsolete-out my very expensive Hynes SR7-EHD in favor of Terry's FPS 19V SMPS (the first one he sent me, an extra he had, was noisy and bad so I ordered one from Amazon that arrived today. Stay tuned).

The theory in possibly NOT using a front end linear is that maybe, just maybe, the idea that spending big bucks on a linear ps for the whole pc when you are already powering several peripherals separately anyway, is a waste of money. Combine that with the fact that the cheap picopsu downstream of the Hynes is dirtying up the electrical subsystem to the mobo, cpu, etc. anyway! The argument for the linear is that it acts as a back filter against dirty pc electrical noise from backflowing into the audio system. We'll see.

My plans are to eventually scrap the Caps Lagoon in favor of moving the i7-based Zuma to do more of the heavy lifting (JRiver, multichannel, etc) and replace it's audiopc (DAC server) duties with Terry/Phil/Marcin's Xeon flavored S1200KPR. In the meantime I got me a new SSD to do a fresh install on the Zuma and see how it does doing ALL the lifting (i.e single pc setup). I've never heard my system with anything but a weak Atom-based cpu running JRiver, for example, handing the DAC driver duties to the Zuma And for multichannel Jriver, that's a LOT of lifting that little Atom guy needs to do.

TJHUB · « **Reply #34 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 12:41 am »

Thanks for posting Ted. I was hoping you would.

I'm hardly ahead of Ted with any of this stuff. We are just traveling down slightly different paths. I'd love to follow Ted, but it's just not in my budget. As such, I decided to be as smart as I could about what I could try. I'm also lucky enough to have friends to loan me things I couldn't just go out and buy. That has really helped a lot.

I am hoping to stay with a single PC, unless Ted's single PC test is a failure. If I were to try a dual PC setup, I was thinking Intel NUC for the control PC, but it is just a thought at this point. I've done no serious investigation yet.

For what it's worth, my friend who builds DIY linear power supplies (and by far the best sounding ones I've ever used) asked me to bring my Anker battery to his house this past Monday. He was running a DIY linear on his PPA v1 card, and another on the OS SSD. We swapped the linear for the Anker on the OS SSD a few times. He was blown away. He was making statements about hearing things in the music he's never heard before, and hearing micro details much easier. And all of this comes from no increase in brightness, and better tone. My visit was about an hour and a half, and he ordered an Anker battery pack before I left. It was THAT good.

jtwrace · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 12:45 am »

A member of this forum has been using my Teddy Pardo unit on his CAPS like PC with excellent results.

Nick77 · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 12:53 am »

I was considering using a MSata SSD for my build, I guess with the results im hearing about powering separately that would not be a good idea. ??

And of course this begs the question, how do you power your SSD separately? Make a diy cable?

TJHUB · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 12:58 am »

Quote from: Nick77 on 20 Dec 2013, 12:53 am

I was considering using a MSata SSD for my build, I guess with the results im hearing about powering separately that would not be a good idea. ??

I would say NO!! There seems to be something about SS drives that inject excess noise into the PC, so isolating the power to them works very well. But they also respond amazingly well to battery power vs. linear power. If you go MSATA, you can't try any of this. I say stay away from MSATA.

TJHUB · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 01:04 am »

Quote from: Nick77 on 20 Dec 2013, 12:53 am

And of course this begs the question, how do you power your SSD separately? Make a diy cable?

Almost any 5V power supply. I've tried a few linears with some success, but the Anker USB battery packs like the E4 seem to easily perform the best with anyone who's tried them.

To connect these USB battery packs, I purchased a USB to DC barrel power cable. I cut the barrel connector off and adapted a SATA power connector I pilfered from another adapter to the end.

ted_b · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Dec 2013, 01:18 am »

Yes, to date all my SSD 5V power supplies are a cut-off SATA power connector with red and black wires twisted to the red and black wires from a USB cable, and secured with electrical tape. Some day I will get a cleaner cable (especially would love to find a FAT/THICK USB cable to do surgery on; one that has more than a couple strands of copper per cable to work with).