[geofstro]

Wow! I'm just catching up to the posts here after returning from vacation and I'm more excited than ever about getting my JVC. It should arrive from Germany any day now as it was sent out on Monday.

I've been going a bit bananas on these low cost digital amps. Ever since Ed Schilling sent me a PowerWave along with my Horns (stuffed in the mouth of one horn) I've been excited about the potential of these amps. The PW now does service in my computer office driving a pair of quite decent italian bookshelf speakers. I've yet to try it on the Horns (I use a Fi X for them)

It was clear when I first heard the PowerWave that these amps were something special. Since then I've ordered a Tripath eval board from the UK and the little toy Sonic Impact amp, both of which arrived yesterday.

I also brought a Teac AL-700P back from my holidays in the UK.

I just managed to hook up the Teac and did a bit of listening last night which I'll report on in the Teac thread.

With my limited experience of them so far, I am convinced that something very special is going on with these Tripath based amps.

The posts on the JVC Receivers have been particularly interesting, since there is a mix of mostly glowing reviews and some reservations.

It seems that it's not possible to give a verdict on these until they've reached the 300 hour mark. Nevertheless I imagine that anyone who's not impressed by the sound at up to 100 hours is not likely to go for the sound at 300 hours either, unless the essential character changes at some point, which I doubt.

As Dmason has pointed out, it all depends on your listening preferences and your system.

Personally I'm finding these digital amps in general have a quite different sound to what I'm used to from either tube or solid state power amps. They do what I love most about Horn speakers, which as Richard described so eloquently, put me in touch with the music.

Perhaps I'm just falling in love with what they do so well that other amps can't quite seem to get, that I'm not noticing their flaws as much as I should; but so far I'm feeling very positive about this technology.

BTW, when I get the JVC I plan to leave it on all the time; but obviously won't always be able to play music through it. I always thought that to burn in a device you really needed to play music; but by leaving it on, will this shorten the time I have to wait before it sounds its best?

For example does 100 non-musical hours equal 50 or less musical hours?

Thanks

geoff

[-Richard-]

Hi Geoff,

The JVC RXF 10S, receiver, which is the model I
have, has a built in tuner...

DMason suggested I leave the FM on all night
at a modest level that would not disturb my
rest and that is exactly what I have been doing.

If you are not home during the day you can
still keep the FM on until you get home...

In 2 weeks you should have well over 300
hours on it.

Your horn speakers should reveal a
great deal of musical information.

Good luck and please share your impressions
with us.

Warm regards -Richard-

[tubeytubeamp]

One note about the fan,

The fan gets louder and louder as the as the amp gets hotter. Also, the loundness of the fan may be power dependant to some degree. Upon putting on my Kenwood receiver, which I use as a phono preamp, the fan kinda hiccups as the receiver is powering up.

Dennis

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;system=390

[Dmason]

Something that some of you might find as exciting as I did to find, was that JVC has MORE  hybrid digital products in their small systems line.   All three use the same head unit, and have speakers of varying and astonishingly horrible physical appearance.

The FS-X1 is the least costly, and I have one now.  It is very nicely built, with metal fittings and metal housing. It sports 30 hybrid watts, has a built in CD player, tone controls, bass boost for the crumby little speakers that came with it, and interestingly, a sub out. I plan on replacing the Teac with it for my Fostex outfit, and it seems to have ALOT of juice for 30 watts. I got it for $178 at GG..

[jswallac]

First of all, many thanks to Dmason, TheChairGuy, Richard, and the rest for making us aware of the JVC's potental.  I am currently a confirmed "tube guy," but all this talk about the JVC has me reconsidering.  A remote sure would be nice...  

I recently sold my Ah Tjoeb and have replaced it temporarily with a Pioneer 563.  I noticed that is what Richard is using.  I am curious about the Nixon DAC.  I went with the Pioneer because it is a universal player and I want SACD capability.  I believe that the Pioneer only outputs SACD through analog.  Therefore the external DAC would prohibit SACD usage.  Is that correct?  If so, does that mean you guys only listen to Redbook?  

I really would prefer not to get an external DAC.  One of the big plusses for the JVC is that it would greatly simplify things.  One nice little package.  Adding a DAC not only adds a lot of cost relative to the JVC, but also adds an additional box and interconnects.  My plan is to purchase the Decware Dec685 (a modified Sony SACD player with a tube output stage).  Has anybody compared one of the tubed CDPs versus an external DAC and a transport?

[Dmason]

I  compared the tube output Jolida JD100 with the Nixon TubeDAC, the DACkit, and the Ack! Dack all at the same time. For me, the DACkit was the one; it sounded more like analogue than any other CD experience I had had. The TubeDAC has abit more energy on the top end, and somehow it reminded me more of an upsampling DAC, but it trounced the Jolida, which I found to be comparatively slower, with less bass speed, and "PRAT" the DACkit requires some matching, but works okay with any input with a load +20K, so works most places, although I would like to see its somewhat anemic output of 1.7V jacked up some. Also, I noticed that the quality of transports was less an issue with the Nixon DAC's than any other I have tried, including Theta, EAD, and some pro audio devices.

I know for a fact that Scott Nixon himself is using the Pioneer 563 as a transport for the DAC's. With the JVC, you can input the DAC for Redbook, and run inputs as well, for SACD into another function, have Class A redbook + SACD capability for about $350. I say screw the expensive tube output SACD player, spend your money on software. Besides, it takes those in Peoria about six months to fulfill most orders. Do you really want to wait that long?

The Nixon worked as well with a Sony DVD player a friend gave me, the DVP555S, as it did with the solid performing DVP7700, which is widely known to be a great spinner. So, I wouldn't rule these out as an unreasonable cost. $250 built and ready to go, means all you need is a digital cable and you are set.  ps: I have spoken to an individual who preferred greatly the DACkit over the very expensive ($1750) 47 Labs Junji which it is based on, but with more parts.

[BenF]

The texture on that cello was simply stunning. I've never heard anything like it before. Right now with my proaudio soundcard going into the jvc, I'm only hearing an approximation of that sound on the low strings when the player really puts some pressure on the bow, but I'm not hearing it past the G string for sure. Well, the flip side is that I listen to my brother play cello all the time from a variety of distances and I'm not quite sure real cellos have THAT much texture either  Is this what people mean when they say "analog?" That absolutely stunning fluid texture?

ooheadsoo,

Yes, I don't think that real instruments have that same sound, like you say. I have heard a lot of live unamplified instruments in different settings and also over and over again in my house in the same room as the sound system. I do think there is a lot of "enhancing/retouching the photograph" in sound reproduction. This is fine, as long as we all agree that we are doing that. I find that on this board more people are willing to say that they are really not looking to reproduce sound accurately. Instead many are looking for an emotional experience which can be heightened through equalization, compression, limiting, etc. in the recording and through the qualities of the playback system.

I wish I could compare the JVC to the Panasonic and Sharp I have. I agree with those who say the Panasonic is very revealing of the source. I find the Sharp does the same. I can tell how well the CD was made. It seems that most of these digital amps have this ability.

By the way, I have also played back recordings I have made on my system and compared them directly with the same live instrument in the room. It is a good way to try to duplicate the live sound, but really pretty impossible at the low cost level I have to work in, the recording chain, etc. But the results are not bad at all, and fun besides!

Ben

[jswallac]

Dmason,

Thanks for the reply.  You have talked me out of the Decware CDP.  Sounds like the Pioneer/Scott Nixon combo is a winner.  One more question.  I recall you previously were using a tube preamp in front of the JVC.  Have you since gone away from that?

[jkelly]

After reading the comments about the JVC RXF 10S
from Richard and others I had to order one!
Today I received my JVC RXF 10S, and have
just finished an evening of listening on the receiver.
My normal system like Richards was the 8th Nerve
modified CarverPro ZR1600.  My source currently
is a fully modified Toshiba 3950 (including power cord).
All cables are Bolder.  I have my highly modified
KLF20's in position tonight.

After listening to 3 cd's this evening I had to
review Richards reports on his listening experience
with the JVC to see if he experienced the new
sensations I felt tonight.

First off on some of the Diana Krall music that has
violins swelling in and out I felt as if the music
was physically swelling into the listening space
and back.  Visualizations that come with the Media Player
came to mind as I was trying to explain it to myself.
The music seemed to physically swell into the room.

Quoting Richard -

"Even single instruments are giving off their
overtones in shimmering layers that rise
and fall like the sea..."

Aother sensation was only during one song but for
a moment I felt as if the sound was reaching me in my chair
and rapping me in a sonic world.  The music defined a
new space that was the width of the room and went from behind
the speakers to my face and the different instruments
had locations within that space.  It almost got a little
weird but I wanted to stay there and experience it.

Again from Richard-

"Instead, with the little JVC, the music flows over
you...washing your auditory senses with a continuous
fluid "air" the carries the music along in an organic
wholeness that makes you feel...perhaps for the first
time...that your brain need not function under the usual
stresses of a kind of schematic cognition..."

I did notice a bit of congestion in really loud rock sections
and while I have plently of height in the soundstage I am
hoping for more outside of the speakers.  Hope this comes
with the hours.

BTW the Toshiba never sounded better!

So with only a few hours on this receiver I have had similar
experiences to at least one other poster.  The passive
and ZR1600 are going in the box for a while as the receiver
burns in.

Jeff
Sea Girt, NJ

[geofstro]

Thanks Richard,

Regarding warm up of the JVC (when I get it) my problem is that I'm away quite a lot, so I can't leave it on and playing music for fear of disturbing the neighbors. Even at very low listening levels, even the softest sounds carry at night.

My Horn Shoppe horns are probably still breaking in although I've had them since early July, due to my being away so much. When you warm up speakers, since they are mechanical, I believe they will burn in faster when you play music through them at least at normal listening levels to give the drivers a good workout.

With circuitry it's less clear to me. Most solid state gear benefits from being left on all the time, with or without music and I'm not sure how critical it is to have music actually going through it.

Anyway, I will leave the JVC on as much as possible and report my impressions.

Hope it arrives soon. Maybe today will be the day  

geoff

[Dmason]

jswallac: I brought a tube pre amp to audition the original JVC, before all this, because I wanted to hear it with what I thought of as an "optimized" signal. There was no need for it, and likely it detracted somewhat. The JVC is so clean, I believe anything extraneous may have actually taken away from the sound. No need for tubes here.

Amplifiers break in more thoroughly with music playing because the current capacitors in these hybrid amps need to be worked. Select the tuner, and let it play all day and night. If you feel yours is getting too hot, take the cover off, as I did, and allow it to cool by convection.

If you have the Fostex speakers like I now do, they take a very long time, reeeelly long if you have the FX/F series. Only by playing them at moderate levels do they break in over a period of several hundred hours. The FX series are said to take six months.

I am glad to read I am not the only one experiencing something new in the psychoacoustic realm. Often I am getting an image that extends ten feet behind the speakers, and seems would extend even further, if the room were larger. And sometimes the image is right in front of my face, and others, sort of ...behind me. Someone mentioned that it reminded them of what listening was like in a chemically altered state. my thoughts exactly. Years ago I heard what Pink Floyd and ELP could do with mega-scale quad, and sometimes it sounds like that. This machine is VERY different!!!

[lonewolfny42]

Questions, questions, questions....OK, I've got the JVC RX-ES1 here. Got the speaker cables on, running AMFM...it works. Now, how and where can I plug in a CDP ? IC's or Digital ? No DAC at this time. And how do I get to hear this player. Not having much luck with this info booklet !!!!!!! Thanks for your help.....

[gary]

Questions, questions, questions....OK, I've got the JVC RX-ES1 here. Got the speaker cables on, running AMFM...it works. Now, how and where can I plug in a CDP ? IC's or Digital ? No DAC at this time. And how do I get to hear this player. Not having much luck with this info booklet !!!!!!! Thanks for your help.....

If you want to run an analog signal you need to use the DVD inputs, and then set the receiver to DVD/Multi. That'll bypass the A->D->A conversion that would normally happen. You can also connect a digital coax or toslink cable from the player to the same input, and then switch between DVD & DVD/Multi to compare the two. If you have a good cd player chances are the analog in will sound better (IMO) but definitely try both.

Gary

[lonewolfny42]

If you want to run an analog signal you need to use the DVD inputs, and then set the receiver to DVD/Multi. That'll bypass the A->D->A conversion that would normally happen. You can also connect a digital coax or toslink cable from the player to the same input, and then switch between DVD & DVD/Multi to compare the two. If you have a good cd player chances are the analog in will sound better (IMO) but definitely try both.

Gary

Thanks Gary...it works, using analog IC's....I hear music.....now for 200 hours of burn time......THANKS !!!

Another question....has anyone played with the tone controls, bass and treble. Thanks !! [/list:u]

[TheChairGuy]

Glad you got it, Loanwolfy...never mind my PM, then.

Enjoy the tunes, soon-to-be-believer  

[-Richard-]

Hi Lone Wolf,

I had the same question when I
set my JVC up...it seems the
booklet makes no provision for
CD's which is most odd...is JVC
trying to tell us something about
what it preceives is the "future" of
the redbook CD?

In the back of the JVC you will
find on the left hand side a group
of 9 inputs for Component Video
in groups of 3's...right next to that
to the right...are 2 groups of inputs...
titled Audio...the pair of inputs on the
right marked DVR/DVD in (play)...are
the inputs in which I have my interconnects
plugged in (from my Scott Nixon Dact).

When you swing through the options for
media on the front of the JVC, select DVR/DVD.
You turn the dial on the left or select it
on the remote.

That works for me...and sounds glorious.

Perhaps DMason could provide further
information on this...but those inputs
work for me.

Hope this helps -Richard-

[lonewolfny42]

Glad you got it, Loanwolfy...never mind my PM, then.

Enjoy the tunes, soon-to-be-believer  

Thanks !!! Going to now move it to basement (the washer and dryer can listen )....run FM for 2 weeks (200 hours) , and on Thursday, Sept. 9 th., bring it back upstairs. It runs hot , had it playing for about an hour (AMFM), now CDP. So it works , thanks Samman's !

(back out to work)[/list:u]

[lonewolfny42]

Thanks for all the replys !!!....I'm sure later , after break in, I'll have a few more questions....I'll keep reading this thread for more pointers, thanks !!!

[J North]

As I plan to use the ES1 purely for 2-channel use and have biwirable speakers, I have been trying to use the surround channels in unison with the fronts to bi-amp my speakers. The initial way I had been doing this was using the "All Channel Stereo" surround mode. This mode takes a 2 channel signal and sends it to the rear outputs as well as the fronts. I had to set all the inputs individually to use this mode.

It worked, but I was not impressed. Lot's of jam, but the tonality was off, the sound had a digital haze and was in general un-refined. My conclusion is that the "All Channel Stereo" mode converts the analog signal to a digital one, the DSP routes it to all 4 speakers via a multi-channel DAC that converts it back to 4 analog channels. This process can only be having a detrimental effect on the audio quality. I am fairly certain that this is what happens because the "DSP" light comes on when this mode is in use.

I was bummed out for a bit because I have power hungry speakers and hated the thought of those 2 channels (rears) of amplification just sitting there.

Then the light bulb goes off!

Why not use the multi-channel DVD inputs and split the signal (via a Y-splitter) externally to feed the same signal to the fronts and rears of each stereo channel from my CDP/DAC? I ran down to Ratshack, picked up their best splitters and hooked it all up. SUCCESS!!!!!

Clean, powerful, tuneful, dynamic, sweet sound. No DSP mode. No conversion to Digital and back to analog.

Give it a try if you have biwireable speakers. You then have to set the other inputs to "All Channel Stereo" if you are using them.

Let me know what you think.

PS (edit): you gotta let those rear channels "burn-in" as well! I have about 100 or so hours on mine, with about 175 on the fronts.

[TheChairGuy]

J North,

So odd that you just wrote this about the Y splitter; I just wrote Panda Gary a PM asking him if he thought this was possible.

In the 'DVD Multi' setting, you can't get a subwoofer to integrate(at all) unless you have a DVD Player with Subwoofer Outs.  I don't, I use a very nice DAC and am abundantly pleased with two channle production, but miss the solid lower bass a subwoofer provides.

With the JVC, you can only integrate a sub if you use the 'DVD' setting...inviting all the nasties that additional digital conversion brings in the process.

So, off to Ratshack we go today to get a Y splitter and run my sub while enjoying the best of two channel that the JVC offers. Thanks - great timing for me on your idea