[TheChairGuy]

ooheadsoo,

I figured out the source of 'distortion' or dynamics-robbing, finally, last night.

Don't use ERS sheets anywhere near the JVC...it absolutely sucks the life outta' the little wonder.  It's like Kryptonite to Superman, it makes him weak-willed.  Bad, bad, bad.  Once I moved the sheets out, back was my gutsy, unexplicably excellent sound again.

This is what some folks have told me, and read of, about ERS in certain instances, but I never heard the effect as fully as now.  A tiny bit perhaps works, but fulll 8.5 x 11" sheets are dynamics robbing.  The JVC is so crystal clear on so many things, that the deleterious effect is all-too obvious.

[Dmason]

CR it sounds like your machine is doing something we have not experienced here, or that you have some seriously compromised power situation. Maybe a fridge with a flat spot on the motor, which I discovered once to be the root of all evil, electrically, at least.

Because of the cheap-ness of parts and power supply in particular, the JVC does benefit in my experience from some sort of filtering, generally the cheaper the component, the more it stands to benefit from power conditioning due to the aforementioned parts count/quality, and because of its low current draw it is a perfect candidate for power re-generators.

Chesterfield Chum: you hit the nail on the head with your comment that the JVC sounds soooo good despite itself, despite all the many, many things getting in its way; I am trying to order the schematics. I found that JVC Canada answers their email, and hopefully we will find some technical paper on "hybrid dual digital" amplification.

[TheChairGuy]

D,

Great move emailing Canada ...if they don't provide, maybe the Aussies will.  It's on the JVC-Australia that I found the only mention of the ES1sl's 'hybrid' technology.

[ooheadsoo]

Whew, good to know the dynamics issue wasn't with the jvc itself.  I'm liking the jvc more and more.  I don't have enough experience to say what it's better than other than my old stuff which wasn't $$$$ gear in the first place.  I certainly don't think it could stand up to something like Sunfire's top of the line stuff but I like it.  

I'm about to leave for about 10 days.  Do you think it would be safe to leave it on at home with the volume set at 1?  I've been doing that at night every night and it's been no problem so far, but I don't want to come home and see my place burned down or my gear fried.

Trumpets still sound shrill, brittle, nasal, thin, and all that bad stuff.

[TheChairGuy]

Whew, good to know the dynamics issue wasn't with the jvc itself.  I'm liking the jvc more and more.  I don't have enough experience to say what it's better than other than my old stuff which wasn't $$$$ gear in the first place.  I certainly don't think it could stand up to something like Sunfire's top of the line stuff but I like it.  

I'm about to leave for about 10 days.  Do you think it would be safe to leave it on at home with the volume set at 1?  I've been doing that at night every night and it's  ...

If you have surge protection on it, why not?  It probably draws less than a toaster oven at '1', so you'd be tempting more fate if you left your Black & Decker on during your sojourn.

In fact, it's probably great.  Wait till you hear what awaits when you get back...it happened to me as I was out three days and left it cooking about hour 150-225.  Whooooa, the difference was terrific 72 hours after leaving it.  

Your opinion of what it can and will stack up to will change in 240 more hours time, I swear.....whatever you compare it to at that point will be leagues more spendy that it is.

[tubeytubeamp]

I sat down for my first serious  listening session last night. Again, I have to concurr with your findings thus far. I haven't an amp with this much clarity since I had a McCormack DNA.05 deluxe.

The audiophile in me is wordering how much better, if any, the RX-F10 is?

The tuner isn't bad sounding either.

I have the receiver sitting up on cones and it looks great in the entertainment center.

[TheChairGuy]

I sat down for my first serious  listening session last night. Again, I have to concurr with your findings thus far. I haven't an amp with this much clarity since I had a McCormack DNA.05 deluxe.

The audiophile in me is wordering how much better, if any, the RX-F10 is?

The tuner isn't bad sounding either.

I have the receiver sitting up on cones and it looks great in the entertainment center.

Nobody is sure of that...seems the F10 is a 6 channel amp vs. 5 on the ES1sl.  As far as sonic differences, probably none, but nobody really knows as no one has heard them side by side.

You ain't had it long enough to know it's clarity level yet I think....the highs and a few other things come about after 200 hours.  Mate it with a super good front end, thru the analog inputs, and you'll have some fine music.  Not perfect, after 2 months I find some of the instruments not quite believable, but really, really fine.  It's still better than anything I've owned and sounds better than most of the spendy stuff I've heard.

It might only need a few upgraded parts to be in the super league.  The circuit layout and implementation seems to be well thought thru as evidenced by the fine sound and compromised parts.

I just put a dozen Cardas RCA caps on 80% of the inputs, and darn, if I don't THINK I hear a little more silence, still.

It's crazy good for this kinda' money, ain't it

[lonewolfny42]

It's crazy good for this kinda' money, ain't it  !!!!

Hello ChairGuy,

I've been reading this thread for quite some time now. Call me a "doubting thomas", but its hard to believe that the JVC sounds as good as you say.. [/list:u]
I know you have an excellent source for cds (EA), but a unit as inexpensive as the JVC, ....I can't.......its crazy [/list:u]
I wonder if you would do me a favor...I'd like to hear

your JVC. Could you loan it to me to listen to ? Sort of a home audition. [/list:u]

In turn, and to make sure your not without music, I'd send you my Scott Nixon Mono's to try.[/list:u]
I won't feel bad if you say no , but I'm curious to hear what your hearing.[/list:u]
Thanks !! Chris [/list:u]

[Rob Babcock]

Hmmm...I'd guess "cold dead fingers"!     Geez, Lonewolf- they're only $180 to start with!

[lonewolfny42]

Hmmm...I'd guess "cold dead fingers"!     Geez, Lonewolf- they're only $180 to start with!

I know...but I'd have to break in the unit. I just want to hear and compare, and John has already done this. Not like I need another amp. Just to hear it....and he would get to hear something he's never heard ...SN Mono's.

[Rob Babcock]

Just bustin' your chops!   I wanna try one too but cronic cheapness/brokeness is preventing me.

[lonewolfny42]

Just bustin' your chops!   I wanna try one too but cronic cheapness/brokeness is preventing me.

Rob,

Don't you have that Sharp amp ? Never got a Carver , right ? [/list:u]

[-Richard-]

DMason turned me onto the little JVC RXF 10S several weeks ago.

Except for intermittent travel, I have been allowing it to burn-in 24 hours a day, using
the built-in FM tuner for a night time signal. I suspect I have a bit more than 200 hours
on it so far.

DMason suggested I share some of my experiences with the JVC...the idea being that
some members of Audio Circle who are following this thread might find it interesting.

I have linked my audio star to many of the insights DMason has generously shared with
me...I have found his thinking over the considerable amount of time we have
corresponded with one another to be profoundly revelatory and revolutionary about all
things audio and well beyond. After making this statement it might come as a surprise
to hear me say that DMason has also taught me how to rely on my own judgement in
analyzing and appreciating audio gear...and it is from that independence of mind that
I am sharing these insights about the JVC.

My experience with hi-end electronics spans the usual gamut of tube and solid state
gear of various designs...so I can honestly say that I am somewhat experienced in
some of the hi-end gear that is currently available from American, British, German,
French, Italian and Japanese designers.

I have 2 pairs of speakers that I move back and forth with...a pair of Ruark Crusader 2’s,
a 3-way floor standing British speaker that emphasizes the midrange in the classic
British tradition and Magnapan’s 1.6qr’s, a planar dipole speaker that occasionally gets
bad press in some of our circles at AC. The Ruark’s lack the ultimate transparency and
detail, although they are simply magic with the human voice, are naturally warm,
coherent, and completely non-fatiguing. The Maggies have incredibly detailed,
separate instruments nicely, create a sense of music floating in a real space and allow
the music to feel very present and palpable. Both pairs of speakers are very different
from each other and both are very pleasing...within their own limitations.

The little JVC is proving itself to be nothing less than an audio miracle. Whether it came
about as an accident, and is therefore an anomaly, or the result of a secret sub rosa
audio alchemy...both ideas have been suggested here...is unclear at this time.

My wife Deborah listeners to music as attentively as I do and so my comments include
her insights as well. Direct from the box I was surprised at how well the JVC sounded...
I have been following the digital threads here in AC and expected it to sound the way
my Carver ZR 1600 sounded after it was moded by 8th nerve...that mod took months to
burn-in...a frustrating period in which I regretted more than once that I had ever allowed
the Carver to leave my hands...

The JVC on the other hand began its flight immediately and improved steadily.

On both speakers the JVC sounds like a 20 thousand dollar tube amp. The most
salient feature of this amp...and it it not fully “burned-in” yet...is the sense of a relaxed
and thoroughly musical presentation.

Which is to say that underneath the strong dynamic pacing there is an ease that melts
any resistance to the idea of music reproduced mechanically...and tends to nurture an
acceptance of the “idea” of live music. I will try to flesh this idea out a bit more.

All the Solid State amplification I have heard seems to have one thing in common. The
music has a spotlighted quality that seems more than a little unmusical and somewhat
contrived although very stimulating...tubed electronics on the other hand tend to soften
and illuminate the sound, giving it a bit of a dimensional quality, but give up
extension and transparency.

Audio designers play with both technologies...now getting SS to sound more tube
like...now getting tubes to sound more like SS...many audiophiles have pointed out
that there has been something of a convergence of both SS and Tube sound in
recent years.

Then there are entire “schools” of thought that have grown up around the idea of an
inherent distortion in each technology...technical measurements and “even order” and
“odd order” harmonics are often sighted to defend one against the other and so on.

But both technologies have one thing in common...in the world of hi-fi, they are
packaged in startlingly compelling designs that make the most of various materials to
give the impression of possessing a sonic technology of the highest order and
refinement. All of us have been tempted to own this or that component based on its
seductive good looks alone. Thus we are all “conditioned” somewhat to associate
high sonic purity with great design and expensive price tags.

To appreciate the humble little JVC, I suspect that we would have had to work through
the illusions of the glitter and compelling design aesthetics of very high priced
electronic gear and come out the other side of the tunnel so-to-speak. And of course
that includes the hype that accompanies certain manufacturers products...toted by the
audio press as the “reference” component that all others are to be judged by
and so on.

The JVC makes both the Ruark’s and the Maggies sound incredible...the Ruark’s take
on a life that they should not ordinarily have with a pacing that suggests an infusion of
viagra...compared to all the electronics that I have so far thrown at them. The Maggies
sound like 20 thousand dollar full range speakers to die for...and I have never heard
them sound the way they do with the JVC...and I have tried quite a bit of electronics
with them and heard them in various setups in hi-end stores...nothing ever sounded
like this...rich, fully fleshed out, colorful, textually deeply etched and almost plump.

Here is just one example of what the JVC does that I have never heard before.

I have a wonderful recording of the Hunn-Huur-Tu...The Orphan’s Lament. An
irreplaceable CD of the music of a troop of Truvans who live near the vast spaces of
Mongolia...they use their voices in ways rather unfamiliar to us in the west...they can
change their pitch to sound as if they are truly from another world...sometimes their
single voices sound like multiple resonating instruments...it is an eerie and haunting
experience to hear them sing and play their indigenous stringed instruments.

Deborah played their album this morning and we both stopped in our tracks. Yes...
of course...we heard things we have never heard before to be sure...but more than
that...in one singers voice...a “lament” we had heard countless times...there was a
warbling...a subtle but very present shifting of pitch in short pulsating notations that
we have never heard before...we were astounded.

It is as if the little JVC has some alchemical fluid that flows into the microscopic holes
in the CD and loosens the embedded musical information that has become trapped
there and extracts it...lifts it up and allows it to bubble to the surface...to come into
focus as the music is being played...I can give many examples...one more:

On the equally haunting CD Nawang Khechog...a “modern” interpretation of traditional
Tibetan music filled with very “spatial” renderings of musical landscapes...thunderous
seas churning in the background...gongs...Tibetan voices serving up resonating
harmonies of ancient sanscript...and the ancient Tibetan flute played by Nawang...
out of this matrix of sound and textures came the sounds of a deeply pounding drum
...very obvious...filled with energy and feeling...that neither Deb nor I had ever heard
before...we stopped and looked at each other...it was like we were listening to an
entirely different rendering of this music...infinitely richer, more complete,
more “organic”...

And this leads me to my final observations.

The JVC has an entirely organic sound...convincing...because it “includes” everything
that is essential in the musical “language” being offered up. Multiple layers of
intricately intertwined musical passages are rendered as if from one living fabric.

I have never made a more deeply emotional connection with reproduced music as
the humble little JVC allows me to feel.

I am no longer interested in the idea that the lowly “redbook” CD is incomplete as a
musical technology...I have no problem with the idea that newer formats have more
information in them...and that they sound more complete than the CD in absolute
terms...more analogue, the audio press puts forth again and again...with the JVC the
analogue “nature” of the CD is fully present and I do not feel any lack of anything
there...including warmth...

The highs are sweet...and string instruments sound like real string
instruments...resonate, with the rosin and wood of the cello or violin mixed in
 the sound...something SS has never been able to reproduce for me
convincingly...something I appreciate profoundly since a great deal of the music
 I turn to for solace and meditation is small ensemble classical string
instrumental dialogues.

The human voice is warm and fully present.

But the idea I would like to leave with you is one of “wholeness”. Yes...of course the
mass produced little JVC could be refined by swapping out and replacing this part or
that. But the important thing here for me...is the sense of completeness and ease of the
musical presentation...no aggressiveness...no spotlighting...no exaggeration...but
music that is fully there and fully alive...

I for one am convinced that we have a true classic here...and on the cheap!

Are there electronics that can best the JVC out there that are being sold for a kings
ransom? I am unimpressed and frankly have no interest in them...being quite
satisfied for now with the musical life that the JVC allows me to enjoy.

I have come to see that DMason is a real revolutionary. Like a good archeologist he
sifts among the artifacts of the electronic “culture” and plucks from the vast parade
of electronic offerings true gems that are cheap but of the highest order of
refinement...capable of achieving musical bliss for next to nothing by today’s hi-end
standards. He helps to get us off the “conditioned” habits of thinking that only
expensive audio gear is the portal to great sound.

Thanks Dan...and thanks to all of you who have enough insight and courage to play
with the new paradigms and share your wealth of information and insights with all
of us who have a profound love of music but small budgets.

We are entering a period that will see the demise of what DMason calls expensive
“boat anchors”...and we shall see an entire elitist industry fad into history...

Let the games continue.

Warm regards to all.  -Richard-

[Rob Babcock]

I got cold feet on the Carver waiting to see just what the mods were going to entail.  While I waited it began to look like the market might soon be flooded with amps that were more consumer oriented instead of pro amps.  And supposedly Carver was working on an amp aimed at the home market, but I haven't heard anything yet.

I recently sold off several amps & some extra gear, sort of debating the next step.  I've been too broke lately to think much about buying a bunch of new stuff.  Maybe this winter I'll work on a few upgrades.  Mostly kickin' back & enjoying what I've got right now.   The last thing I bought was Carlman's Modwright modded Pioneer, and I've been pretty happy with it.

[lonewolfny42]

Richard,

Very interesting report ...thanks. I remember reading your

Carver review. I have the Carver ZR 1600 with 8th. Nerve mods and a "boat anchor" Krell.[/list:u]

Would you say the JVC sounded better to you than the Carver ?? Thanks....[/list:u]

[TheChairGuy]

Holy cow, -Richard-, that was a great write-up

I get much the same feelings when using the little JVC... I have been thinking my upgrade-itis has ended.  I'm contemplating, for the first time, extensive purchases of music instead of gear.  It's that good.

I'd like to qualify my earlier statement where I said the instruments are 'not quite believable'.  I have my MSB outboard power supply out for additional mods with Empirical Audio, and I keep forgetting how much fuller instuments are with it in.  I had no such issue with instrument believablilty prior.  I'll have it back by Wednesday with the new FRED's and we'll see what effect that has.  Thing is, every change in the system are met with immediate notice, both good and bad, with the JVC.  Isn't that a sign of a superior product?

Chris/Lonewolfy, I just got my DIYCable Exodus back for tunes, and I will, within a couple weeks be sending the JVC in for basic $350 mods from Wayne/Bolder.  I think that's all that is needed to make this little honey a much sweeter grade.  I cannot possibly imagine how, but I figure that cheap parts must be letting this down somehow.  Time to find out.

Again, -Richard-, thanks for sharing your thoughts and again valdiating what I am hearing.  If the JVC sold for $2000.00+, I wouldn't be questioning my hearing  

Kudos to Dr DigiMason for finding it at Good Guys long ago...it really has changed my appreciation for mucis.  It just sounds damn good, price issues totally aside.

[-Richard-]

Hi Lonewolf (great name),

There is no comparison between the
8th nerve moded ZR 1600 and the
humble little JVC...

It is a question of refinement and
musical "wholeness"...

The Carver was the first iteration on
the cheap of this new technology
and well worth exploring...

If I had to compare them based on
one idea alone I would say that the
JVC sounds like a 20thousand dollar
tube amp and the 8th nerve moded
Carver sounds like a multi-thousand
dollar Solid State amp...

Yes...of course...that answer is hardly
acceptable...the Carver has less warmth,
instruments sound less of a piece...seemingly
made up of an assembled "order" of sounds
that are good but not convincing...compared
to the JVC which has a wholeness and
musical rightness about it...

With the JVC I am swept into the music
immediately...the brains cognitive functions
turn off...so-to-speak...and are replaced with
a sense of intense involvement with the music...
a seductive merging of ones inner emotional
life with the inner emotional life of the music...

The Carver is an amp one can respect but
not love...this insight, of course, post JVC!

I am tempted to suggest that anyone who has
not had extensive listening experience with
pricey tubed electronics might conceivably
find the JVC actually lacking in sparkle...
a lifetime of steady exposure to Solid State
might leave one expecting a higher transient
snap then the JVC offers...but if one allows
themselves to be exposed to the more
integrated musical landscape of the JVC
they might, over time, come to see that
nothing is missing there...indeed the detail
retrieval is nothing less than extraordinary...
but always in the service of the music...
never spotlighted...never presented as
an "event"...

It is not tubes of course...which is a kind
of blessing I think...it does not mimic tubes
in a "synthetic" way...rather it presents the
music and gets out of the way...but at the same
time there is something deeply satisfying there
and organic...

I think we are in a similar position that I remember
being in when I first encountered hi-fi as an adolescent...
which is to say that we are learning all over again
what is possible in musical delight...and just when
we thought electronics had hit a wall...

IncIdentally, Deb loves it! Almost every amp we
have heard at one time or another bothers her acute
auditory sensitivity...but she love the little JVC!

Happy listening. I hope this helps.

Warm regards -Richard-

[-Richard-]

Hi ChairGuy,

Thanks for your further insights.

Please keep us informed about
your Empirical Audio mod for $350.

I am very curious about what they
actually change and your impressions
of their upgrade.

Incidentally, does the mod include the
ability to use an independent power cord?

Warm regards -Richard-

[lonewolfny42]

Thank you Richard for your futher insights into the sound of the JVC unit. I recently finished a home audition of the AKSA 100N+ amp. Your views of the JVC in a way match what I heard in the AKSA. Detailed , airy, easy going sound...all from a SS amp. And I compared it to the other amps I own, the Krell and Carver. I was very impressed. Thanks again , I will have to listen to the JVC.....Chris

[TheChairGuy]

Hi ChairGuy,

Thanks for your further insights.

Please keep us informed about
your Empirical Audio mod for $350.

I am very curious about what they
actually change and your impressions
of their upgrade.

Incidentally, does the mod include the
ability to use an independent power cord?

Warm regards -Richard-

Richard,

It's Bolder's $350 mod I'm getting, the one Wayne does on the Panny's, and it includes the IEC inlet to use independent power cords with.  He has a special of only $85 just for the IEC mod, too.  I am thinking of getting the wiring to the inputs changed over to his Nitro wire, hard wiring my speaker cable in, IEC mod, changing out the rca's, and, maybe, swap out the diodes for HEXFRED's.

More detail at www.boldercables.com under 'Mods and Accessories' on his home page.

I know what you are your wife are experiencing.  I have not winced once in playing the JVC.  Never, Everything sounds good outta' the box, and better after 300 hours.

Empirical Audio is modding my MSB Power Base for $100. Swapping out diodes for FRED's. Steve Nugent suggested it over a more expensive option of changing out to a SuperDuper Clock for more money.

Finger's crossed that in about 2 weeks I'll simply be listening to tunes, totally content. I'm 95% there now, bone stock, with the JVC.