JVC RX-ES1sl

Dmason · « **Reply #20 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 03:29 pm »

Upon reading the above post by ABEX, I would like to clarify that I am in no way endorsing Larry's products, nor do I find it to my liking that there is an implied endorsement here, and in other threads brought to my attention. I am not using the suggested cables presently in my system, so in no way can this be construed as a choice of speaker cable for any particular amp device for anyone so informed on the subject of digital amps so as to be considered a "guru."

This is a hobby for me, an ongoing experiment in sound, and I am only too happy to share anything I can, except implied product endorsements.

Rant over. Enjoy The Music.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: Seminarian

Hey Chairguy,

What are you doing about speaker cables for this thing. I would hazard a guess that your better (best) cables don't have ragged wire ends on them but have either spades or bananas. So how are you dealing with getting the best cables in this system given that you have to handle those spring clips on the JVC?

Seminarian,

Speaker cable, of the 3 or 4 choices of 'play' wire (IC's, digi's, PC's, Power 'umbilicals) has yielded the least differences in various systems I've had. I'm kinda' glad I haven't gotten on the anal bandwagon on that issue, too.

I have bare wire lengths of Kimber 4TC that I've used in various systems; some with good and some with horrible results. It's very high capacitance oscillated my old Superphon real good way back. Purely the fault lied in the output design of the Superphon (as pointed out by Frank van Alstine long ago), but the Kimber exascerbated it.

I've used bare wire, rope lay bundles of 12 ga. Radio Shack and 10 ga. King Cable....there are really best used as subwoofer or bass module cables. Awful sound resulted when applied to mids and tweets...just bloody muck to my ears.

So, when I have binding posts I use LAT International SS-1000D. They've not failed me yet in any occasion. They are good and only set me back $125 used on A-gon for 8' pairs for silverfuse 10ga...not bad.

However, the JVC has spring clips as you've mentioned. For that, I use 5' bare wire lengths of Mohawk CAT-6 cable (sent to me very graciously by Mark Hampton of ZCable along with $600 worth of ZSleeves); 4 pair of individually teflon insulated 24ga. wire = 14 ga. It's real similar in both construction and sound to the Kimber, probably has the same high capacitance, but it has worked great on bi-amp tweets and the JVC alike now. It's what I now use and it sounds pretty good with it. I have not used anything else with it since I got it to compare; too happy to care, really.

Good Doctor Dmason, if you get any more famous around these parts, I may have to hire you to model in one of my 'ass -trays'. I could hire you to endorse that, right

Lastly, Seminarian, I attended a Catholic School (Villanova) and the 'Seminary' gents there were among the wildest on campus. It was a great way to get a 2-3 year free ride at a top school, then bail just before you had to take any vows of celibacy. So, how'd your moniker come about? I'm too curious not to ask......

ABEX · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 06:19 pm »

Dr. the comment was to be taken in light spirit and I did not meant to say it was endorseing only that you where using it.

And CJ where are these comments coming from as there are others that are not having the same results.

Thx!

cjr888 · « **Reply #23 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 08:16 pm »

Quote from: ABEX

And CJ where are these comments coming from as there are others that are not having the same results.

You mentioned that you like your Ag spirals the best, and that in general Ag is said not to work with the digital amplifiers, but that yours does a good job.

I was inquiring about "in general Ag is said not to work with the digital amplifiers" -- I was wondering why Ag is said to not work with the digital amplifiers, and my guesses were too thin of a sound or too revealing of a sound, but was inquiring what you had heard... (Quote from from your post)

ABEX · « **Reply #24 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 09:15 pm »

Cjr
There are a few people that had mentioned that Ag does not work well with the Panny. In fact alot of Ag cables are bright and strident ,but when testing cables last summer I found that the spiral design takes those traits out and acts more like a good copper with the extension you would expect from Ag.

I tried a number of geometry’s and the only one which satisfied my ears where the Spirals. There are different cables that work well, but that is the geometry to my ears worked the best.

My system then consisted of the following:
B&K ST-202(Original Version) Modified)
FT Audio Passive Controller
Philips CD-80 CDP Stock
Bolder DIO DAC
NEAR Speakers M50III’s modified Drivers
M15III’s modified Drivers

You can look at NEAR speakers reviews at Soundstage ,but the new versions will not be listed and the newer drivers are a breed apart from them. I believe some pro reviewers and recording engineers still use them as reference though. I have known NEARs since the early 90's and Bill K. has improved the design to great levels using more advanced drivers which I am lucky enough to own.

Cables included AQ,47Labs,Tara Labs,Monster,Straight Wire,Kimber and a bunch of others.

I then sent them to people that are dealers and professional designers I know and who knew more then me,as I know I am not one that knows it all, to see what their impression were using them in different systems against other notable cables. These systems they have far outweigh mine in terms of worth and they have been in the business a long time. So I do take note of their opinions.

I’d say that 90% of the reaction has been positive with improvements made since also making using either the OTA or my Ag designs compatible with the systems they have used them in. There is not the sense of stridency,Brightness or being sterile using my Ag with the Panny45. To answer your question , I believe it is the spiral design which helps defeat it. While I did find certain strengths in the other designs things sounded more natural to me using the spiral and I have since improved it. The improvement has been in displaying better dynamics while keeping the other traits intact. There is a way of using the OTA to bring certain traits up.

BTW if you also read my speakers are Metal Tech and in order for them to perform their best they cannot use wires that give the aforementioned traits so I had to work at eliminating them.

The speaker's are revealing as are the cables.

I am not saying I sell the best ,but Competitively priced cables which I have work at improving the design. Just as NEAR speakers are not the best,but I'd have to pay a lot more for the same ability they have.

Id rather pay for mine than more from others which gives people a choice.

People that like OTA can always pay 47Labs $700 for their kit or a number of other cable companies that I know who use OTA wire in their lineup.
No problem by me it's their $$.

I did not get into this on a whim BTW. When working at a Plating Co. doing Chemical Analysis years ago I thought about it. I have also worked in Manufacturing in one capacity or another most of my life and have been into audio since I was young being tutored by my father who was a professional musician and other family members that were into music\ audio in one form or another most of their lives. I for my part was lucky to play the Kazoo ,but I did get to hear some great stuff and meet some very knowledgeable people.Those are stories for another time. It was only a year ago did I have the time to do it.

Hope that sorts that out!

NOTE:I have no interest in the ongoing business activities of NEAR Corps. and my Co. name was taken from a handle I use.

Regards,Larry Grac
www.NEARSOTA.com

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #25 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 10:56 pm »

Any issues with setting up a subwoofer with these guys?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #26 on:** 30 Jul 2004, 11:05 pm »

ooheadsoo,

Now is that Oh-heads-Oh, ewe-heads-ewe...I can't find it in Webster's

You mean with the JVC 'guys' or ABEX's wire...sub, that is?

Not with the JVC...sub out to powered sub or dedicated amp for sub. One IC, your choice which.

The JVC is so good tho, it needs a good amp/sub/IC to match it....mine currently doesn't cut it with the JVC handling 90% of the music above. It sounds awful with my NEAR BOOM-3 passive/AudioSource Amp3/Radio Shack or LAT with it. I'm pretty sure the sub is decent, it needs digital ampification down low, tho, to match the speed of the JVC.

Yet another mark of a good product, no...at ANY price?

Finicky it is....much more so than my cat ever is or was.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #27 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 01:59 am »

either way you pronounce it, it's fine by me

It was never meant to be said aloud

One time, many many years ago, I went laser tagging in high school with a bunch of buddies and I wrote that as my tag for a laugh. Boy, I don't even know what they said when they called out my name and score because when the receipt came out, I don't think they got half the letters I wrote down right

I meant with the jvc. I have a diy sub thingy...I hope it will work out ok. I'm dreaming of the tuner that the jvc comes with. If it didn't have the tuner, I'd be tempted a whole lot less. I only need a power amp. My new diy speakers' f3 is 70hz so I'm thinking an 80hz xover with the jvc would work ok. I'm really worried about the integration, especially now that you said that your sub is slow. Right now, I'm manually dialing in my subwoofer at about 50hz. At sub 50hz with the phase properly integrated, I don't think the speed is all that crucial at this price point, but I'd be more worried how it would perform when I need to integrate it at 80hz.

Dmason · « **Reply #28 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 02:28 am »

ewe-heads-ewe,

the tuner is the icing on the cake with this thing. It is very sensitive, warrants attention to a decent antenna, and it is verrry musical. I am listening to it all the time. That, and the well-thought-out remote make for a bonanza, an audio playground.

The best part of the tuner is that it don't need no f"&%-ing cables to make it work reeelly well

Warning: if you plan to use a sub, make sure it is up to the task or the sound will just smear all over the place...

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #29 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 02:42 am »

Does the JVC RX-ES1SL have Dolby PLII? I just can't find any decent info on this thing.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #30 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 02:45 am »

If I do it, I guess we'll see if my subwoofer is up to snuff or not! My sub is...ok. I wish I extended lower, but it's too late to do anything about that now

It goes down to 32hz or so. I've been really tempted by GR's new 12" in a small box that's supposed to do 20hz!!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #31 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 02:58 am »

OHO, my sub extends quite low (big ported box, twin 8" fairly long excursion woofers). I'm pretty sure it the AudioSource that can't keep up.

Rob, I'm not a video guy...so I haven't used function, but it has Dolby Pro Logic II.

It's so damn weird, it's like JVC doesn't want anyone to know a damn thing about these little wonders.

Freaky...

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #32 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 03:06 am »

How low does yours go? I have a big ported converted to sealed box (about 4cu.ft.) with twin 10" woofers run in parallel.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #33 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 03:30 am »

It's got 2nd order crossover at 80Hz and maker claims 22Hz.

By outer dims, less arbitrary 20% for inner dims, I get about 3.8 cu. ft.

Don't know (can't verify) how low, but it will sound better when I get a digiamp hooked up to it...I do truly believe.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 03:36 am »

Okay, about the bass management- does the JVC apply proper high & low pass via the digital inputs? That is, does it roll of the lowest bass to keep it out of your mains & route it to the subs? That seems fundamental, the very purpose of bass management, but not all receivers do it properly.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #35 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 03:37 am »

I have a 4ft box, ported at 23Hz, with a 12 inch Nakamichi in it - driven by 300w BASH digital amp. Keeps up with my mains, no problem.

Mark

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #36 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 07:52 am »

Yes! Rob asked the big question! I hope we can figure this one out. Should be fairly easy to test if you have a computer and a signal generator (foobar has a built in one.)

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #37 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 07:58 am »

I may as well confess my secret- I do on occasion use PLII for music!

Hey, it's in the privacy of my own home, no children around & only consenting adults! The stereo purists can pile on if they wish, but if I can consider a $179 receiver, then I can use PL2 for music!

Anyway, the reason I wonder about the bass management is that a couple years ago one of the big HT mags (can't remember which one) had a shootout of HT receivers, and of all the models they reviewed, only the Denon models did bass management right in every case. Some brands totally screwed the pooch, while one (I think Onkyo) was close to perfect, but had one source that wouldn't work right. Others had proper management for digital but a diff setup for analog, or vice versa, and some were all over the map.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #38 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 08:24 am »

Rob, you're scaring me!

kfonda · « **Reply #39 on:** 31 Jul 2004, 03:50 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Okay, about the bass management- does the JVC apply proper high & low pass via the digital inputs? That is, does it roll of the lowest bass to keep it out of your mains & route it to the subs? That seems fundamental, the very purpose of bass management, but not all receivers do it properly.

Yes. Make sure ALL speakers are set to small to do so. If using it for 5.1 all speakers set to small will have freqs below the crossover point sent to the speakers set to large ( fronts for example ). If you don't want freqs below the crossover point sent to fronts set fronts to small and freqs below the crossover point will be routed to the subwoofer. If using for just 2-channel set mains to small.

Crossover points are not brick walls and diffferent receivers use different slopes--12db, 24 db slopes... The crossover can be used for digital OR analog inputs--just not on the DVD multi-ins.