[Tim S]

I think anyone reading Brian's post should have seen this but I am 99.9999% certain that Brian's warning about not honoring warranty on modded speakers refers to major non-factory approved mods

HOW can you read THAT from THIS:   ? ? ?

Anyone having mods performed by Danny or anyone else voids his warranty. We will not repair any modded speakers in or out of warranty.

Or even this:   ?

We will return to y ...

I don't have time to track down all of the exact quotes, but they won't be hard to find. As you will see even in this thread Brian points out several factory authorized mods. For driver swaps that do not require cross-over changes he usually recommends people do those themselves. A while back there was a connection issue with some of the mid-ranges that required some work and many did that themselves at (I believe) his suggestion and under his direction. Several people have even done the TRT upgrade themselves with his blessing. There is a big thread on vitrifying the PR with the title "Faboluous Free Factory Authorized Tweak".  So to answer your question, my interpretation comes from reading posts other than just those words that were likley written when he was not in a mood to be polite.

That said, I could be incorrect in my interpretation and these suggestions were all made to induce us to violate our warranty saving him lots of $$. If so, I will likely be corrected by Big B or John (I've seen pictures, shouldn't he get the nickname Big J ?) or one of the other dealers.

Even if your interpretation is correct, is it really a problem? If I bought one of Danny's speakers (or any other manufacturer who doesn't want to go bankrupt), had someone redo the crossover and the new crossover busted the tweeter, do you think Danny  would let me send it back saying "That was bad worksmanship on your part, please replace the tweeter for free and fix the cross-over."? No. He might fix it, but it would cost me. This is the risk one knowingly runs when one breaks out a soldering gun.

Tim

[ooheadsoo]

That link shows ONE reflection.  In my room, there's a ceiling, a floor, a beam that splits the room (the beam comes into the room about a foot).  On the right side, there's a fireplace.  On the left side, there's a door.  There's an entire equipment rack and RPTV between the speakers. There's a huge sub on one corner of the room.  There's a rear wall (and another door, sliding glass doors covered by curtain). Moreover, the speakers are toed in.  The floor is tile over concrete; there's a rug between the sp ...

Only the closest reflection matters.

[Hantra]

Even if your interpretation is correct, is it really a problem?

No.  It will never be a problem for me.  I am just saying that the guy is condoning mods, and sending people parts to do mods, and then saying he won't repair ANY MODDED speaker IN or OUT of warranty.  <--  note the period.  

Besides, you were the one being contrary.  Not me:

I think anyone reading Brian's post should have seen this

[Brian Cheney]

DISCLAIMER: the only mods that will void your warranty are ones (like Danny's) which substantially alter the characteristics of the filter and make parts or drivers likely to fail.

[ehider]

Yikes!.....A $1.00 iron core inductor on the 626R's tweeter?

I'd sure like to see an explaination to how you'd be "wrecking the designer's intended sound" if you went to an aircore inductor here instead.

Aircores are waaaaaaaay better sonically. I'd be pretty pissed off if I found my speakers had $1.00 iron core inductors on their tweeters. They are that bad IMHO).

(BTW: Those "air cores" can be really expensive starting at $3 bucks each!).

[Rick Craig]

Yikes!.....A $1.00 iron core inductor on the 626R's tweeter?

I'd sure like to see an explaination to how you'd be "wrecking the designer's intended sound" if you went to an aircore inductor here instead.

Aircores are waaaaaaaay better sonically. I'd be pretty pissed off if I found my speakers had $1.00 iron core inductors on their tweeters. They are that bad IMHO).

(BTW: Those "air cores" can be really expensive starting at $3 bucks each!).

The problem with iron cores is saturation which is less of a problem in the tweeter circuit than it would be elsewhere. Air cores for a tweeter are sometimes less than $1. Swapping inductors can create worse sound even if you're replacing an iron core with an air core because the d.c. resistance of the inductor is part of the transfer function of the filter.

Rick

[ctviggen]

But why should Brian warranty something that's been changed?  What would you do?  If you do something like filling the speaker with something, that's one thing.  But if you cut out stuff and put something else in, then you shouldn't have your warranty.  By the way, I think that Brian thinks that iron is better than other techniques.  

For me, I just care about having the speakers sound good.   If that means that $1 parts are necessary, I'll take them.

[zybar]

Bob,

Couldn't agree more.

And man can they sound good!!

 

George

[Brian Cheney]

The "iron core inductor" in question provides an accelerated rolloff (extra filter pole) at 4.5kHz for the tweeter.  It has no sonic effect on the circuit and is large enough not to saturate.  You can't hear it inserted into the circuit or removed.  However. the tweeter will fail if the inductor is not present.  It does not matter if this part is iron or aircore and we have used both over the years.

Since you asked, our "Super Q" Erse coils are superior to any aircore, since their DCR is about 1/3 that of an equivalent gauge aircore of the same value.  It has nothing to do with cost, the Erse's aren't cheap either (and are made in Ohio!).  DCR is the most important characteristic of a series inductor as long as it does not saturate or suffer from hysteresis.  The very large laminar core of the Erse's eliminates both problems and sound just wonderful, which is why I use them.

[Rocket]

Hi,

Just wondering if the fst tweeter isn't an aurum cantus ribbon then what tweeter do you use?

The speaker designer who built my speakers (utilising raven 1 ribbon tweeter) tried to use the aurum cantus ribbon but preferred the raven tweeters.  If the ribbon tweeter was overdriven isn't it a matter of just replacing the ribbon.

I have said before that in another pair of speakers i had aspeaker designer rebuilt the xover's for me and it totally changed the sound of the speaker.  the speaker became very fatiguing and i eventually swapped back to the original xover.

best wishes

rod

[Brian Cheney]

The FST is a custom design (transformer, diaphragm) we ordered factory-direct.  No, I'm not giving out the name of the factory.

I like the easy replacability of the Raven tweeters but ours sounds a bit better.  I have used the R1 and R2 with success in several systems.

[Rocket]

Hi Brian,

Once you have had a speaker which utilises good quality ribbons it is hard to go back to dome tweeters.  They just don't have the same top end/airiness that ribbons reproduce.

Have you heard of BEEngineering tweeters which are designed by Alain Bernard.  I heard some in use the other night they sounded excellent and first impressions are they sound better than ravens.  They are very expensive though.

best wishes

rod

[Brian Cheney]

Sorry, that's the first I've heard about these tweeters.  Any stateside availability?

[Rocket]

Hi Brian,

I think orca manufacturing are importing them into the states or
you could try war audio here in perth.  

www.warco.com.au

I'm sure the tweeters vmps use are excellent but i thought the BEEngineer
tweeters bested the raven 3 by a fair margin.  The aren't cheap though.

best wishes

rod

[mgalusha]

The BEEngineering tweeters look very interesting but not cheap is an understatment!    The lowest priced model from E-Speakers is USD $995 and the top model is USD $1,975. Ouch! Hard to picture nearly 4K for a pair of tweeters. The mind boggles at (the cost for) a line array of those.  

[James Romeyn]

Danny never posted http://www.gr-research.com/vmps626r.htm.  He offered it privately to individuals who were interested in the mod.  It was other people who made that information public.  I think that's pretty clear if you follow the thread.

The sum total difference is the way he did it he gets to (falsely) claim he did not want it publicly posted.  Do you disagree?

[Rocket]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to be slightly off topic but i just removed my amp modules from my aksa and sent them off to hugh for upgrade to nirvana plus status.

All caps are replaced on the amp modules plus a new power supply pcb is built with new caps.  Hopefully it will be finished in a week or two as i'm looking forward to how good the upgrade sounds.  I'm hoping it will sound as good as the bel canto amp as this is what  i compared my aksa to, the aksa came up a little short imo.

The BEEngineering tweeters are very expensive.  Pat at war audio (i can refer to another hifi company as we are about 20 000klms away   ) gave a ball park figure of about $2000au each per tweeter for the entry level ones.

Hey there is always some crazy audiophile wanting the best sounding speakers a company can design and build.

Regarding the issue with the 626r upgrade.  I read the thread from the beginning and thought it was poorly handled and i'm surprised that Brian has reacted so calmly.  My xover is hand built, it doesn't look pretty but works well.

best wishes

rocket

[doug s.]

brian, other ribbon tweeters that sound fantastic (imo!) are the ones made by hi-vi research.  while us plebeans can buy them from parts express, i know they do custom for oem's.  not to spendy, either...

doug s.

[ekovalsky]

Audiophilia is a very personal subject for each of us.  VMPS is an acronym for "Veritone Minimum Phase Speakers".  For about a quarter century Brian has been building speakers with a passion for what he considers to be proper design, using first order and quasi-second order crossover designs placed outside the most critical frequency range.  I first heard a VMPS system half my life ago at Dynamic Sound in 1986.  Since then drivers, parts, and cabinets have been improved and the speakers have become more refined.  But the design principles have changed little.  I liked what I heard 18 years ago and still do.   To me Brian's speakers sound natural in a way few others do.

Anyone who has read the articles on his website or has met him in person will know he is opinionated and not the most popular figure among the audio media and other designers.  He also has a golden ear and can almost immediately detect a single driver wired out of phase in a system.   I saw him do exactly this at CES earlier this year with an exotic import speaker (more expensive than the RM/X) that didn't sound quite right.  

Some will undoubtedly be less sensitive to phase information and may prefer the flatter frequency response possible with higher order crossovers and slopes shifted into midrange band -- hence Danny's reworked crossover.  

One burning question I have, is why did texasphile purchased the 626R if he wasn't pleased with the sound?  It sounds like he heard them at John Casler's pad.  Why didn't he just purchase a pair of G-R Research speakers if he was so impressed with Danny's work on his former Soliloquy speakers?  

I don't fault Danny for creating the new crossover, since a customer requested the service.  That being said, personally I found the G-R Research webpage featuring a dissection and multi-faceted criticism of the 626R unprofessional and insulting.  If it was intentionally "leaked" to the public while Brian was on his one vacation of the year, it is that much more reprehensible.  I can only imagine how Brian must have felt upon his return, and his response has been extraordinarily reserved in my opinion.

[John B]

That being said, personally I found the G-R Research webpage featuring a dissection and multi-faceted criticism of the 626R unprofessional and insulting. If it was intentionally "leaked" to the public while Brian was on his one vacation of the year, it is that much more reprehensible

Danny's con job was so transparent I'm surprised anyone could not see through it.  Of course where there's opportunity for gain at another's expense you will always find takers...the human condition and all...and with people in positions of responsiblity turning a blind eye to it, well, it just doesn't sit well with me.  Then again there's lots in life that doesn't sit well with me, thank God for good stereo to ease me into that better place