[John Casler]

I saw the "review" and "improvements" of the 626R on the GR website.

Danny does not mention that his "fix" includes inverting the polarity of the midrange driver relative to woofer and tweeter, which destroys the phase integrity of the system.  It is possible to achieve flatter amplitude response this way at the expense of sound quality, which does not appear to interest Mr. Richie.

The 626R cabinet made by Sal Salgado (shown in the review) was 1" MDF front and back and 3/4" top and sides. It ships at 42 lbs loaded. The more recent Bud Bailey and mls 626R's are all 1" and the mls cabinets are laminated and heavily braced as well as Soundcoated. They
ship at 48 lbs loaded.  

Hi B,

Welcome back, and good "high road" response.

I too found the "reported weight" of 33# questionable, since UPS charged me for 49# shipping weight each.

I weighed my new 626Rs and they weigh around 48# each as you stated.

[Rocket]

Hi,

A number of years ago i had a person redesign the xovers on my war audio speakers (they supposedly were very good at designing speakers) and unfortunately the speakers sounded totally different.  I found the speaker to be very fatiguing and eventually removed the xover and replace it with the old one.

If you are happy with your 626r's you should leave them as they are.  

Btw i don't own either vmps or gr research speakers but my xovers do have axon caps which are good quality for the price.

regards

rod

[Brian Cheney]

No 626R owner can purchase off-the-shelf components for his speaker that will do a good job.  Anyone having mods performed by Danny or anyone else voids his warranty.  We will not repair any modded speakers in or out of warranty.

Danny's mod includes such totally destructive changes as inverting the midrange polarity and moving the tweeter crossover to 3.5kHz, which it cannot handle--the diaphragm will stretch and collapse under the stress of high level 3.5 kHz wavelengths.  

Flat amplitude response, while desirable, is not worthwhile if it comes at the expense of phase integrity.  Crossovers are carefully designed and selected to minimize the pitfalls of in-phase design while preserving the great benefits--all the music comes at you in a coherent envelope. The 626R specifies and maintains a +/-3dB max variation from flat from 34Hz to above 30kHz.

We have a new woofer for the 626R ($190pr) which improves its sound considerably.  There are crossover changes so this mod should be done at the factory.  You will get a guaranteed improvement in your 626R with this upgrade.  What you will get from Danny Richie is anyone's guess.

[John B]

What you will get from Danny Richie is anyone's guess.

You'll get a design and build that took all of two week's vacation time    to develop, test, and begin marketing.   I'm sure a lot of smart consumers are going to jump on that bandwagon    My advice for people who have 626Rs and are wanting significant audio improvement, is try something I just did....room treatments.  I got a stellar increase in performance from my 626Rs after the last acoustic panel went into place yesterday.   Performance that was waiting to come out, once the room was made favorable for these world class monitors.

[texasphile]

Danny's mod includes such totally destructive changes as inverting the midrange polarity and moving the tweeter crossover to 3.5kHz, which it cannot handle--the diaphragm will stretch and collapse under the stress of high level 3.5 kHz wavelengths.

That response bothered me so I checked the Aurum Cantus website regarding the G2si tweeter. http://www.aurumcantus.com/g2g3/g2%20si/g2si.htm

It says (I just cut and pasted directly from the website):

 Technical parameter


    * Rated impedance: 6Ω
    * Rated Power: 30W
    * Sensitivity: 96dB/W/M
    * Frequency range: 1700Hz-40kHz
    * Dimension of aluminum ribbon(WLT)：8.5mm×60mm×0.01mm
    * Shape of aluminum ribbon: wave
    * Mass of aluminum ribbon: 12mg
    * Moving area of aluminum ribbon: 510mm2
    * Gap Flux: 0.58 Tesla
    * Frequency cut recommended: over 2500Hz

I believe that you are mistaken.

Chris

[Brian Cheney]

Thanks for quoting specs for the Aurum Cantus tweeter.  Unfortunately we don't use it.  I assure you our tweeter will fail in the manner described if used with a 3.5kHz crossover, as you are about to find out.  

We will return to you freight collect and unrepaired any VMPS speaker that has been modded by others.

[texasphile]

Thanks for quoting specs for the Aurum Cantus tweeter.  Unfortunately we don't use it.  I assure you our tweeter will fail in the manner described if used with a 3.5kHz crossover, as you are about to find out.  

We will return to you freight collect and unrepaired any VMPS speaker that has been modded by others.

I apologize for the error about which tweeter was in the pair of 626R speakers which I currently own.  Thanks for setting the record straight.  I believe that you will never have to worry about a VMPS speaker coming to me or from me, because, based on your unfortunate and quite frankly, ugly attitude, I cannot support your products or company.

Below is an email that I sent to John Casler earlier today and I am including it unedited for public viewing.

Hello John,

I'm not certain if I told you why I took the speakers to Danny as
opposed to contacting you or something else.  Danny is one town
North-West from me and he did "fix" my Soliloquy 8.2
loudspeakers by re-engineering the tweeter crossover network.  The
Soliloquy speakers were the most expensive piece of electronic
equipment that I have purchased ($5000 in Rosewood) and they sounded
much better after Danny's modifications.  I thought that if anyone
could improve the sound of the 626R speakers, he could.  I still feel
badly about the firestorm of controversy that came as a result.  Many
Audiocircle postings thought that Danny was deliberately trying to
attack Mr. Cheney while he was away on vacation.  I had no idea that
Mr. Cheney was away, nor did I realize it would lead to the fuss.  My
apology on Audiocircle ended up getting myself made "fun
of" by a poster.  I now have a rather bitter taste in my mouth
about VMPS as a result.  Every manufacturer has its promoters and
detractors.  "Ford is great, Chevy stinks, etcetera."  I
was not prepared for the passion that Loudspeakers ignite.  Who knew?  

Would it have helped if I had written to you telling you that the
sound of the 626Rs did not meet the cost?  If I were in your shoes, I
would likely write it off as someone who did not know what he was
talking about, especially if I considered the speaker
"correct" as is.  I have worked in retail before and you
may have heard of "Buyer's Remorse," a term used to
describe a customer who makes an expensive purchase and then regrets
his or her decision and takes the item back soon after purchase.  I
don't believe in taking back an item that is working if I think that
I can work around the faults of the product and therefore avoid
buyer's remorse.  I will hear the reworked 626R loudspeakers tomorrow
and be able to judge whether they were worth the trouble.  If they
sound better (or worse) than when I received them, I will let you
know.  If they sound better, Mr. Cheney should be happy that
improvements were achieved.  I believe that this situation is like
NASCAR vehicles running Chevrolet engines with Ford rear
differentials.   Sometimes you must get past the name and look at the
engineering.  On the bright side, people who found the sound of the
speakers somewhat lacking can get "different" sound for not
a large amount of money.  Some of the postings alluded to owner
dissatisfaction with some portion of the 626R's sound reproduction,
with, surprisingly, a few mentioning the Rm40s as candidates for
modification.  Clearly, some owners agreed with me that the sound
reproduction could be better than it currently is.  I spoke with
Danny earlier on the phone today and he thinks that the network
modifications are worth the cost and that the speaker sounds better
than it did.  I would hope that you are not angry at his attempt to
help other 626R owners who may be feeling the same way that I did.
As far as I read, he never said to "Buy GR-Research speakers
instead of VMPS."   I believe that he wrote that owners
dissatisfied with the sound reproduction of their 626Rs could install
his network design for $160 per speaker for fancy parts or $60 per
speaker for "normal" parts.  That sounds pretty reasonable
and possibly cost effective to me.

Thanks for asking "what happened?" and sorry again for the
trouble,

Chris

PS. I forgot about the strange behavior of speaker height.  The
soundstage changed depending on how high or low my head was in
relation to the speaker, something that I found quite bothersome.

[pjchappy]

"PS. I forgot about the strange behavior of speaker height. The
soundstage changed depending on how high or low my head was in
relation to the speaker, something that I found quite bothersome."

Well, every 'high-end' speaker I have heard changes a bit when you move away from the tweeter's axis.  That is the nature of the directionality of high-frequency sounds. . .and from what I understand, will be greater w/ a ribbon and w/ a 1st-order x-over.

I don't see why you are mad for any comments BC made.  It is clear that the 2 x-over designs will achieve different goals.  Also, since the tweeter in your 626 is NOT an Arum Cantus, then, BC is just giving you a fair warning that you will stretch your ribbon.

p

[zybar]

PJCHAPPY,

Big B reminds my of my first orthopedic surgeon (he was the doc for the US Olympic Ski Team and highly qualified)...he was technically briliant but had a terrible bedside manner.  Did that make him a bad doc?  Maybe not in the OR, but in the office it didn't go too well.

At the end of the day, I switched because of it...

Big B. is direct and to the point (maybe too direct at times) and that isn't going to fly with some people.

Just my usual two cents.

George

[ekovalsky]

I guess if the new crossover blows the tweeter, you can always try the Aurum Cantus tweeter and let us know how it works out.  

Might as well replace the Monsoon panel with a Neo8 and drop in a 6" CSS woofer too.  With Danny's crossover you should end up with a custom GR-Research model, of course with a special "White Van Signature" cabinet  

Seriously, I'm all for speaker mods.  With my current speakers, I have replaced my passive radiators with "vitrified high compliance" units that Big B sent me at no charge.  I also substituted virgin lambs wool for fiberglass behind the planar magnetic drivers, and had the TRT caps and Analysis Plus wire options installed by the factory.  And with my previous RM-40, I modified/repaired eight midrange drivers with a Dremel and parts supplied by Big B and Jim Romeyn.  None of this, even taking a 15,000 rpm power tool to a delicate planar driver, voided my warranty  

In my experience, Big B has been very supportive of upgrades and mods.  And I have respected his opinion when I wanted to do thing that he felt weren't a good idea, i.e. replacing the stock binding posts with very expensive WBT units I had bought.    

Since your warranty has been rescinded and he will not repair your speakers in the event of damage, I wish you luck and look forward to hearing your listening impressions.

[ekovalsky]

PJCHAPPY,

Big B reminds my of my first orthopedic surgeon (he was the doc for the US Olympic Ski Team and highly qualified)...he was technically briliant but had a terrible bedside manner.  Did that make him a bad doc?  Maybe not in the OR, but in the office it didn't go too well.

At the end of the day, I switched because of it...

Big B. is direct and to the point (maybe too direct at times) and that isn't going to fly with some people.

Just my usual two cents.

George

Sorry this is off topic, but I couldn't resist...

A surgeon's skills are almost always inversely proportional to his bedside manner.  Were I to find myself needing a surgeon's services, I'd go to a guy who is one of the biggest assholes I've known.

The docs who end up in the "Top 100 Doctors in (fill in your city here)" magazine stories are usually among the worst in town.  They usually are slick talkers and are loved by the media and their patients.  Most are old and not up on current standard of care, but their socializing skills are always state of the art.

Of course it is a totally different story with radiologists, none of us have bedside manner since we don't have to talk to patients

[Brian Cheney]

You'll have to excuse me for blowing up when I read this evening that Danny's "improvements" included moving the tweeter crossover down an octave.

If you make commercial speakers they have to be reliable.  I don't like high order slopes (24/36dB/oct would be necessary with a 3.5kHz crossover and even then things would be iffy) and don't operate the FST below where I know it's comfortable.  

I know DIY's who run 1" softdomes down to 800Hz and brag about it.  Of course they don't mind replacing diaphragms or whole tweeters regularly.

The policy I quoted about not repairing modded speakers comes straight out of the Acoustic Research warranty statement circa 1965.  They would not repair any modified speaker systems and told you that up front.

Mods are fine with me until they make my product fail.  Then I can get short.

If this owner had adjusted the level controls on the 626R to match his room and equipment we wouldn't be discussing mods now.  Instead he took the speaker to a competitor who found all sorts of things wrong with it and recommended a complete rebuild.  

Caveat emptor.  Sorry I can't be forgiving and mellow about this, folks.  Danny intends to start his own VMPS modding business and even tells people how flawed the RM40 is based on its driver layout, which BTW is quite similar to that used by John Dunlavy who probably could also use a lecture about how wrong he was from Danny.

He's got people actually believing him too.  How sad, how unfortunate, how very wrong of him.

[pjchappy]

I just got done w/ a trial about 2-weeks ago where we defended a doctor who didn't have the greatest bed side manner.  

He has been practicing for 30 years and is excellent at what he does. . .never had he been sued until this year.  This area is the most notorious in the country for lawsuits. . .I'm sure you can guess exactly where, Eric.  Anyways, NEVER was he sued before.

Anyways, it was clear that he wasn't negligent; luckily, the jury saw it that way, too.

I'm just agreeing w/ Eric, I guess.

[pjchappy]

Understandable Big B.

p

[jgubman]

Texasphile,

my advice would be to carefully audition a speaker before laying down thousands of dollars on them. A few carefull auditions will probably help you find a speaker whose performance you are happy with and doesn't need a "fix" from Danny...

As for Brian, I've always found him to be pleasant and helpful. He has helped me out w/ the bases for my RM-40s on several occasions and has very graciously offered to come to my house and help tune my speakers for me. I'm happy w/ the results of my own tuning so far, but plan on taking him up on his offer in the not too distant future.

I think it's mind blowing to NOT expect Brian to get a little heated about what's been happening here. His crossover and speaker design has been getting an unfair thrashing by a bitter competitor, and he's supposed to be gracious about it???

Personally, I'm very impressed by how Brian's handled this entire situation and pretty disgusted by Danny's pretty transparent plan to badmouth Brian and tout his "superior" design skills. Mind blowingly, Danny's proven himself to be quite the svengali judging by the posts on these forums...

[John Casler]

I think it might help for some to know a few more facts.

Chris (the purchaser of my previous speakers) is a very nice fellow.  I sold him this pair of 626Rs after playing them daily for many months.

Some of you, I'm sure got tired of hearing me "gush" about just how good they were.

I placed them with Chris knowing that I was sending him one of the best pairs of speakers (soundwise) he could get for the price.

I told him to listen to them in his system and let me know how they sounded so we could tune them as nessessary.  

I truly expected to hear "raves", but not a peep

He and I had corresponded for some time and I knew of his "medical" situations so I assumed that he had not been able to set them up due to that.

Then this situation arrises and I finally figured out that the speakers being sliced and diced as "White Van" speakers were actually mine.

Hello?????

So I send a post off to Chris and he tells me that he didn't feel that he should "bother me" with the problem and that another Company had modded a pair of Soliliquy speakers (where that Designer has also had used cheap and crappy electronics)

He also told me that he had not "touched" the pots "period" to try and adjust the sound.

So to my knowledge, Chris has never heard these speakers "do their thing" tuned and properly set up.  

So it is no wonder that he might not have been happy with them.  

He has never heard them tuned and set up for his room and system.

[tkp]

I think this is an unforturnate case of mismatching between speakers and personal preference.  Based on Chris response to the change in quality of sound when moved from the sweet spot, I highly doubt that Chris would be happy with any VMPS speakers.

A friend of mine love the sound of VMPS speakers in the sweat spot but totally hate tweaking them because he is terified that he might make the sound worse and most of the time he does not trust his own ear.  I ended up tweaking his speakers for him.

VMPS speakers are not for every one.  To own VMPS speaker, one must be prepared to tune them to suit his/her taste.

[warnerwh]

Being on my second set of VMPS speakers I know how "different" they can be made to sound with the adjustments.  JC is no doubt correct the sound of this guys speakers were never touched which means he no doubt knows little of room acoustics/speaker position and room treatments and how this alone can make a dramatic change on any speakers sound.  I wish more people were aware of room acoustics btw. I can see how someone could jump to the conclusion that they don't sound as good as they should under some circumstances, as is the case with all speakers but especially VMPS speakers due to their adjustability. I guarantee I can make my speakers sound pretty awful or quite excellent doing nothing but adjusting the L pads and/or changing the amount of putty.  The guy is probably just inexperienced and Danny took advantage of the situation is my guess.  The fact that the mod was presented in a negative light just ruined any respect I had for that manufacturer though.  Brian's straightforward no B.S. attitude should be considered a strength in the business world I think.  I know he'd never slime around like someone else has IMHO.

[Hantra]

Seriously, I'm all for speaker mods. With my current speakers, I have replaced my passive radiators with "vitrified high compliance" units that Big B sent me at no charge.

 

Well good luck getting any work done on your speakers, warranty or not.

We will not repair any modded speakers in or out of warranty.

We will return to you freight collect and unrepaired any VMPS speaker that has been modded by others.

[Horsehead]

Looks like there is still quality control issues........How the hell was this hole cut (RM30)