[blutto]

These tiny CineMags sound really sweet.  The CineMag 1131 are smooth, detailed & Dynamic.  If there is a shootout please include these.   I'd also like to try the Hashimoto HM7.

 

....an absolute gem...and as an aside, Bob, the builder, is one of the nicest, and funniest guys you'll ever meet....highly recommended....

Cheers

blutto

[coverto]

If different cartridges mate best with different transformers, then does it follow that a phono stage like the Zesto Andros, which uses Jensen transformers, will mate best with the cartridges that best match the Jensens? Or might there be mitigating factors in the overall design to make the phono stage more versatile in that regard?

[mgsboedmisodpc2]

coverto just asked a synergy question how deep a response will be given I wonder

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Way off. My MCs all track at between 1.3g and 1.8g

Really? What MCs of yours "ALL" track so low?

FYI, all Dynavector MCs (prices from USD9,250 to USD450)  are recommended to track from 1.8 - 2.2 gm.

The most expensive MC on this planet, Audio Note Japan model I0-M, is recommended for 2 -2.2 gm tracking.

c-J

[marknoir]

Hi.
Really? What MCs of yours "ALL" track so low?

FYI, all Dynavector MCs (prices from USD9,250 to USD450)  are recommended to track from 1.8 - 2.2 gm.

The most expensive MC on this planet, Audio Note Japan model I0-M, is recommended for 2 -2.2 gm tracking.

c-J

Audio Technica AT OC-9ML Mk II - 1.5g, AT33PTG - 1.8g, Madrigal Carnegie I - 1.7g, Denon DL-S1 - 1.3g. Most Koetsus are rated at 1.8 - 2.2 g, and I don't remember any modern cartridges rated at 3 grams as the OP states, except may be the Shilabe or the Ortofon SPU. A very rare and excellent AT37 tracks at 1.2g. Both it and the Denon are very special design, similar in their design to the Ortofon MC 2000, and have very light armatures/stylus assemblies, but have very low outputs, in the area of .1 mV, and require very good transformers. Furthermore, high tracking force does not mean that the record will be "wiped off" after three plays, as the OP states, if the design is correct. The wear will certainly be more, but the forces involved are far more complicated than a simple pressure. I prefer well-tracking cartridges that require relatively low VTF, that's why the Denon is my favorite, and it actually sounds very well.

[MarvinTheMartian]

The Audio Note Kits distributor is located in my neighborhood and I was curious if anyone had comments on the L3 phono  stage and SUT kits.
I have been out of touch for too long, but over the last two years I have collected 3 crates of new vinyl and need to get back in the game from scratch. 

The kit price seemed reasonable ...
http://www.audionotekits.com/stepup01.html

until I saw some of the upgrade paths ... YIKES!!
http://www.partsconnexion.com/audionote_coil.html

Shawn

[BobM]

I have a feeling you could be right, which is why I am eagerly awaiting the results of the stepup shoot out that I think Topround is (likely) preparing.
 

Well I was fortunate enough to check out my Piccolo vs a well regarded transformer based step up. I will not name the manufacturer because what I am going to say ... well. Bottom line, I really heard little to no difference between the Piccolo and this transformer. Both were excellent in my system. What was surprising was that I really am having a hard time differentiating between the two (yes, my Piccolo is modded a bit with better resistors in some key spots and better caps than stock).  The transformer might have been a hair more dynamic, and perhaps have a hair more texture, but this is shades of subtlety. But then I listened to something and thought it was the transformer in the system and got shocked when I saw it was not.

The Piccolo shoots well above its price point no matter how you look at it. And I was very much expecting to be shelling out some $ to buy this transformer I am trying. I think I can save myself some dough now.

[topround]

The stepups reviewed will be modern stepups that are available for sale.
I am sure vintage transformers are very good but why review something that would
be difficult or impossible to buy?

[jimdgoulding]

Nixed.

[topround]

Personally I find Audio Note overpriced and overrated. They do have a cult following.
But I do not know what cults have to do with audio
I never heard their SUT's so I can't really comment on them, perhaps Brian from AN Kits would like to send one for review?

[topround]

The Zesto Andros uses Jensen stepups. They are very good stepups. Is your cartridge loving them? The only way to truly know would be to try others and find out. Use the MM section of your Andros with other stepups. You may not want to because you already paid for the jensens, but this is the audiophile world, we are nuts, we may try 10 power cords for a single component, and most of those power cords cost more than stepups for some crazy reason.

For vinyl enthusiasts, stepups are the final frontier, the icing on the cake.
If you are happy with your setup than leave it alone, if you are curious, then experiment, if you don't give a damn then why read this post?

Unless you want to bust balls, which is OK with me....really....I do it all the time

mike

[coverto]

The Zesto Andros uses Jensen stepups. They are very good stepups. Is your cartridge loving them? The only way to truly know would be to try others and find out. Use the MM section of your Andros with other stepups. You may not want to because you already paid for the jensens, but this is the audiophile world, we are nuts, we may try 10 power cords for a single component, and most of those power cords cost more than stepups for some crazy reason.

For vinyl enthusiasts, stepups are the final frontier, the icing on the cake.
If you are happy with your setup than leave it alone, if you are curious, then experiment, if you don't give a damn then why read this post?

Unless you want to bust balls, which is OK with me....really....I do it all the time

mike

Mike - thanks for the response. I guess I was just wondering if there were any parameters one could follow to determine which cartridges would likely make a good match for the Jensens. I'm using them with a VDH cart at the moment and they do seem to be loving it. But of course, being an audiophool, I'm tormented by the thought that I might be missing out on some crazy synergy to be had.

[topround]

Coveto,
The Andros is a very nice stage, you should be very happy with it.
\I have access to lots of stuff so I play alot, and am a little nuts, so I like to experiment with stuff.

And yes the Cinemags plan to be in the shootout

[neobop]

Mike - thanks for the response. I guess I was just wondering if there were any parameters one could follow to determine which cartridges would likely make a good match for the Jensens. I'm using them with a VDH cart at the moment and they do seem to be loving it. But of course, being an audiophool, I'm tormented by the thought that I might be missing out on some crazy synergy to be had.

Matter of fact there are parameters to optimize the choice of SUT.  They can make or break your results. The ratio or number of windings determine gain, and there are impedance considerations also.  LOMC output usually varies from 0.15mV to .4mV, and impedance ranges from a few ohms to around 40 ohms.

On page 1 of this thread I posted a link to an article on VE that explains what this means and how to figure it out.  Somewhere, I saw a tube phono stage/SUT that supplied resistors to change the input impedance of the MM stage (I assume). This is to optimize performance with different carts. A DL-S1 has an impedance of 30 - 40 ohms and some high end carts are < 7 ohms.  Also, when using a seperate SUT, high capacitance cables going to the phono stage can effect high freq performance.

If you have a nice phono stage with built-in SUT, the electrical parameters of that SUT were chosen to compliment the gain, sensitivity etc of the stage with a wide range of carts the user is likely to have. There might even be a list of carts that work well with the preamp. If you have a seperate SUT, appropriate gain (# of windings or ratio) and impedance can be optomised.  Otherwise you're pissing in the wind.
neo

 

[rollo]

  Using an inexpensive Lenco with a Linn Arkiv at .15mv. Lenco is loaded at 100 ohms with LP12TT. Main system uses a Goldenote boboli 2mv with Kuzma TT. Added 50ohm resistors to RCA outs  of the Lenco to get 150 ohms for Linn. My phono preamp a loesch & weisner which has a MM stage with 52db gain any other suggestions than the Lenco.


charles

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Audio Technica AT OC-9ML Mk II - 1.5g, AT33PTG - 1.8g, Madrigal Carnegie I - 1.7g, Denon DL-S1 - 1.3g. Most Koetsus are rated at 1.8 - 2.2 g,

Only Denon DL-S1 can track so low. Most most if not all, MCs track well over 1.5gm. So why you say the other poster "way off"?

FYI, my no-name MM cartridge tracks around 1.2g though it is recommended for 1.5gm min. The track force is a bit on the too light side for heavy modulated grooves, yet it sounds very nice particulary for vocals. Higher or lower tracking force to choose too often is sorta personal preference.

c-J

[marknoir]

Hi.
Only Denon DL-S1 can track so low. Most most if not all, MCs track well over 1.5gm. So why you say the other poster "way off"?

FYI, my no-name MM cartridge tracks around 1.2g though it is recommended for 1.5gm min. The track force is a bit on the too light side for heavy modulated grooves, yet it sounds very nice particulary for vocals. Higher or lower tracking force to choose too often is sorta personal preference.

c-J

OP (original poster) stated that the MCs track at 3 (three) grams and can "whipe out a record in a couple of playings". Now is that not way off? Enough, we are discussing SUTs here...

[WireNut]

Is there such a thing as a balanced SUT ?   

[jimdgoulding]

Coveto,
The Andros is a very nice stage, you should be very happy with it.
\I have access to lots of stuff so I play alot, and am a little nuts, so I like to experiment with stuff.

And yes the Cinemags plan to be in the shootout

Long time no see, Top.  Good to see you posting.  I sure would hope the Andros is a fine stage.  Cost an arm.

[br3098]

My apologies.  I have been lurking on this forum for a long time but have never before posted.  I figure that it's time to rectify that...

I have owned many SUTs over the years, most of them very good but all of them had their individual strengths and weaknesses.  For years I used an Audio Note S3 paired with various Benz LOMC cartridges and was very happy with it.  The combination was was rich and much more detailed than the Grado "The Reference" MI cartridge I had been using. 

I then got the bug to try the Denon DL-103R cartridge on a vintage Ortofon tonearm.  The AN SUT was not a great match for the DL-103, so I sold the S3 and purchased a Hashimoto HM3-based SUT from John at Choir Audio.  John's SUT worked great with the DL-103; providing a wonderfully liquid midrange with lots of texture and timbre to the instruments.  But after a couple of happy years I had collected some additional MC cartridges (Benz, Shelter, Ortofon) and felt that with these cartridges the Hashimoto-based SUT just wasn't giving me all that I was expecting.  The wonderful, rich midrange was still there but it seemed to roll-off the highs and lows somewhat.  I also wasn't hearing all of the separation of instruments that I was expecting.

After speaking with Bob Sattin I bought a Bob's Devices 1131 Blue.  That solved the problem, at least for the majority of MC cartridges.  The 1131 Blue provided me with much better detail, separation of instruments and range than I was getting from the Hashimoto-based SUT.  The 1131 Blue worked very well with most cartridges, with the notable exception of a couple of Ortofon SPU cartridges that I had acquired and grown very fond of.

Fast forward a couple of years, and I found that I had pretty much settled on Ortofon as my standard cartridge.  I still love the SPUs for large classical and opera, and use the Cadenza series for almost everything else.  After describing my disappointment with the Ortofon SPU/Bob's 1131 Blue combination with a local Ortofon dealer, he was kind enough to loan me a new Ortofon ST-80se SUT that utilizes Lundahl transformers.  Wow!  As good as the 1131 Blue was, this is better.  It's just as detailed, if not more so, as the Bob's SUT.  But it's quite a bit smoother and more musical, and there is a better sense of space and dimensionality to the soundstage.  And it works fabulously with the Ortofon SUTs, so I am a happy camper again.

But I still feel that the Bob's 1131 Blue is an absolutely fantastic SUT, and I can attest that it works well with a very wide variety of cartridges.  The ST-80se simply wrks better in my present (specific) setup.

So what's the moral of the story?  First, there is no one perfect SUT for every system, every cartridge or every listener.  Second, as with all audio gear, it is very difficult if not impossible to intelligently select an SUT without testing it in your own system.  Finally, SUTs are extremely system dependent devices.  Your wonderful SUT may not be as wonderful if or when you make major changes to your system; most especially to the cartridge or phono stage.