Formula 1 - 2013

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #100 on:** 11 May 2013, 09:46 pm »

F1 Spain GP - Barcelona starting grid:
1 - Nico Rosberg (ALE/Mercedes) -1m20s718
2 - Lewis Hamilton (ING/Mercedes) - 1m20s972
3 - Sebastian Vettel (ALE/RBR) - 1m21s054
4 - Kimi Raikkonen (FIN/Lotus) - 1m21s177
5 - Fernando Alonso (ESP/Ferrari) - 1m21s218
6 - Romain Grosjean (FRA/Lotus) - 1m21s308
7 - Mark Webber (AUS/RBR) - 1m21s570
8 - Sergio Perez (MEX/McLaren) -1m22s069
9 - Felipe Massa (BRA/Ferrari) - 1m21s219*
10 - Paul di Resta (ESC/Force India) -1m22s233
11 - Daniel Ricciardo (AUS/STR) - 1m22s127
12 - Jean-Eric Vergne (FRA/STR) -1m22s166
13 - Adrian Sutil (ALE/Force India) - 1m22s346
14 - Jenson Button (ING/McLaren) - 1m23s166
15 - Nico Hulkenberg (ALE/Sauber) -1m22s389
16 - Valtteri Bottas (FIN/Williams) - 1m23s260
17 - Pastor Maldonado (VEN/Williams) -1m23s318
18 - Giedo van der Garde (HOL/Caterham) - 1m24s661
19 - Esteban Gutierrez (MEX/Sauber) - 1m22s793**
20 - Jules Bianchi (FRA/Marussia) -1m24s713
21 - Max Chilton (ING/Marussia) - 1m24s996
22 - Charles Pic (FRA/Caterham) -1m25s070

* Felipe Massa-Ferrari lost three places on the grid for blocking Mark Webber-RBR.
** Esteban Gutierrez-Sauber lost three grid positions for block Kimi Raikkonen-Lotus.

carusoracer · « **Reply #101 on:** 11 May 2013, 10:19 pm »

Go Hamilton! Too bad The tires will not last for the chassis. The race pace of the Lotus and the RedBull is very fast. Their chassis just don't work the rear of the cars as hard as the Silver Arrows'

avahifi · « **Reply #102 on:** 11 May 2013, 10:24 pm »

Ho hum, another race farce session with more Pirelli tires falling apart.

Designing tires that prevent the teams from actually racing? Geeze, this is getting to be worse than Nascar.

All the F1 series needs now is a "debris" caution every 10-15 laps or so and to let all the backmarkers catch up and make up laps.

Why don't they just start "racing" on half mile dirt tracks?

This is not the F1 I remember from the 1950 and 1960s.

Frank Van Alstine

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #103 on:** 11 May 2013, 10:56 pm »

At Ferrari only Alonso is allowed to win, at RBR just Vettel is allowed to win.
I will not even get up early to see this crap, the race is 09h00 in the morning I will be sleeping.

avahifi · « **Reply #104 on:** 12 May 2013, 02:45 pm »

At least one team was able to make their Pirelli tires work well today, and it certainly was not Mercedes! They were even running with obvious negative camber on the rear wheels and that did not help at all. Maybe they should check with Nascar to figure out how to get their "tars" to work.
Frank

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #105 on:** 12 May 2013, 07:42 pm »

Massa can give a little smile with the third place.

jarcher · « **Reply #106 on:** 13 May 2013, 06:40 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 11 May 2013, 10:56 pm

At Ferrari only Alonso is allowed to win, at RBR just Vettel is allowed to win.
I will not even get up early to see this crap, the race is 09h00 in the morning I will be sleeping.

Sorry my Brazilian buddy, but Massa is no Senna. I haven't seen him be very competitive since his big accident. If Alonso is #1 driver at Ferrari, its because he's earned it.

I'm no Vettel fan, but As for Webber, no matter how good a position he has on the starting grid, he always gets blown away before the first turn (and often by Alonso, many positions behind). At least with Vettel, he tends to maintain his starting position - and if pole, by a significant margin.

ltr317 · « **Reply #107 on:** 13 May 2013, 07:10 am »

Quote from: jarcher on 13 May 2013, 06:40 am

Sorry my Brazilian buddy, but Massa is no Senna. I haven't seen him be very competitive since his big accident. If Alonso is #1 driver at Ferrari, its because he's earned it.

I'm no Vettel fan, but As for Webber, no matter how good a position he has on the starting grid, he always gets blown away before the first turn (and often by Alonso, many positions behind). At least with Vettel, he tends to maintain his starting position - and if pole, by a significant margin.

Yes, Alonso has earned #1 at Ferrari, but Massa has been gaining his form back, starting with the last 4 or 5 races from last year. He was faster than Alonso in at least two of those races. He has continued his comeback this year though he has some bad luck also. While he's no Senna, he is a gifted driver.

Webber to me hasn't been the same after giving up the championship lead for good when he crashed in the rain in Korea with three races to go in 2010. During that year, he was the equal of Vettel but haven't shown the same competitiveness since. And why does it seem when Red Bull has a mechanical problem it always happens to Webber's car?

carusoracer · « **Reply #108 on:** 13 May 2013, 07:40 pm »

Well I hate to be so right when it would been nice to be wrong....what a poor showing for Mercedes. Their cars were not even competitive with the second tier teams. They really need to change the rear ends asap. Heat will only be more of an issue as summer approaches. If other team can adjust why can't Mercedes?

Wonder if the need to go back to Firestone?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #109 on:** 13 May 2013, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: jarcher on 13 May 2013, 06:40 am

Sorry my Brazilian buddy, but Massa is no Senna. I haven't seen him be very competitive since his big accident. If Alonso is #1 driver at Ferrari, its because he's earned it.

I'm no Vettel fan, but As for Webber, no matter how good a position he has on the starting grid, he always gets blown away before the first turn (and often by Alonso, many positions behind). At least with Vettel, he tends to maintain his starting position - and if pole, by a significant margin.

An Alonso fan...

jarcher · « **Reply #110 on:** 13 May 2013, 11:34 pm »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 13 May 2013, 08:05 pm

An Alonso fan...

You got me

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #111 on:** 14 May 2013, 12:26 am »

Quote from: jarcher on 13 May 2013, 11:34 pm

You got me

I dont like Alonso but he is one of the best currently.
Massa can learn much with him.

ltr317 · « **Reply #112 on:** 14 May 2013, 03:57 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 14 May 2013, 12:26 am

I dont like Alonso but he is one of the best currently.
Massa can learn much with him.

I don't agree. Massa has been in F1 for a long time and have won races at this level, and also won championships in the lower levels. If you remember, Massa beat Schumacher a few times during Schumi's last season with Ferrari, and he was about equal with Kimi when they were team mates at Ferrari. The only major difference between him and Alonso is he is not as consistently fast. Alonso can drive a poorly performing car better than Massa, but they are both gifted drivers. In equal cars, the two are maybe two tenths of a second difference in speed. The fastest drivers in F1 right now are Alonso and Hamilton. Another half dozen or so are close behind, including Massa. I think currently at least a dozen F1 drivers can win the championship if any one of them has the right car. These are the best drivers in the world for a reason. As a former racer, I can't believe the car control skills they have mastered, especially in the rain.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #113 on:** 14 May 2013, 04:20 am »

Quote from: ltr317 on 14 May 2013, 03:57 am

I don't agree. Massa has been in F1 for a long time and have won races at this level, and also won championships in the lower levels. If you remember, Massa beat Schumacher a few times during Schumi's last season with Ferrari, and he was about equal with Kimi when they were team mates at Ferrari. The only major difference between him and Alonso is he is not as consistently fast. Alonso can drive a poorly performing car better than Massa, but they are both gifted drivers. In equal cars, the two are maybe two tenths of a second difference in speed. The fastest drivers in F1 right now are Alonso and Hamilton. Another half dozen or so are close behind, including Massa. I think currently at least a dozen F1 drivers can win the championship if any one of them has the right car. These are the best drivers in the world for a reason. As a former racer, I can't believe the car control skills they have mastered, especially in the rain.

Yes, I agree with you. But Senna and Piquet were more agressive.
Massa is not agressive when it is need lately, which may be the effect of his contract with Ferrari.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p7xiZBpdl4

avahifi · « **Reply #114 on:** 14 May 2013, 10:21 pm »

Red Bull cried so much about tire wear that Pirelli is going to re-do the tires starting at Canada so Red Bull can win all the rest of the races this season.

Oh well, I am actually getting reasonably pleased with Nascar's debris cautions now.

Frank Van Alstine

In drag racing with track times in the 3-4 seconds, is there any time for anyone to cheat?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #115 on:** 14 May 2013, 11:37 pm »

Quote from: avahifi on 14 May 2013, 10:21 pm

Red Bull cried so much about tire wear that Pirelli is going to re-do the tires starting at Canada so Red Bull can win all the rest of the races this season.

Nice, ar least is not a italian car, one pilot and team that deserve win this champ is Raikkonen-Lotus.
It would refresh the F1.

jarcher · « **Reply #116 on:** 14 May 2013, 11:57 pm »

Here's my admittedly unrealistic "wishlist" to refresh F1:

1. Tires : no more tire baloney. 2 tire choices only : wet & dry. No requirement to run either at least once in a race. This would create an interesting challenge for the tire manufacturer(s) & the team. I.e. can tires be made to safely last the full 60+ laps of an F1 race, potentially allowing a "no stop" strategy (assuming no punctures / change to wet / dry needed). If Pirelli etc can make tires that are good for 10s of thousands of miles, can't they make one for 150 or so of a typical F1 race? I know : more extreme circumstances, but really. Teams are just going to have to get used to giving up a bit of grip in the name of durability. Blown tires because of normal wear to me is not a major spectator bonus.

2. Drop KERS + DRS : enough of this yearly BS to try to artificially inject excitement into the sport. If aid's like these are going to be allowed, they should be allowed all the time everywhere on the track so that the driver / team has total discretion.

3. If the above has the result of making a well funded team the runaway winner consistently, then drop the overall allowed annual budget to allow the more minor teams to be more competitive. Keep doing that until things become more equalized.

If there's a set maximum budget, I'd like to see almost total freedom for the teams to design / build whatever they see fit. The days of the six wheel Tyrell was before my time of following F1 - but that sort of craziness & freedom would inject more interest and entertainment value than the current vehicles which are just meant to massage things as close to maximum of whatever that year's rule book allows.

So that's my "pie in the sky" F1 wishlist. What's yours?

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #117 on:** 15 May 2013, 12:12 am »

Nice post. Various tire manufacturers as in the 90s would be the minimum requeriment to make a car free of FIA interference.
Tires must be free of use, would be nice few tire changes.
Overtaking in the tire change are awful.

Kers, DRS, starting race software and electronic gear box are BS.
Limit testing and training before the start of the season is strange to say few.

jarcher · « **Reply #118 on:** 15 May 2013, 12:17 am »

With "good" pit stops in F1 now in the 3 second or less category, it seems like routine pits stops are becoming more redundant. I'd be nice if pit stops were optional all together. No requirement to run certain types of tires in a race, and tires designed strong enough to do so, would I think certainly be one good start to making things more interesting.

carusoracer · « **Reply #119 on:** 15 May 2013, 04:31 pm »

IMHO, bring on other tire manufactures. This would really open up the field. I raced as well, and having the option of several approved tires to compete with really helps out all the way around. Why, you might ask? Some tires just can't work as well on different style chassis. Downside is someone would always pay to be the exclusive tire development entity with one specific team.

The penultimate result is better tires for the consumer. Utilizing racing as a testbed makes perfect R&D sense. Win on Sunday sell on Monday. I can surely tell you the tires of today are certainly better than even 5 years ago and safer.