[matevana]

Do you have the 10" Peerless SLS Subwoofers or regular woofers? The subwoofers: http://www.parts-express.com/peerless-830668-10-paper-cone-sls-subwoofer--264-1110 have a Q of 0.55 and Fs of 32 Hz. Or the woofers: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-10-woofers/peerless-sls-830668-10-woofer-coated-paper-cone/

Looks like the woofers are not sold by PE anymore, but the subwoofers are. Maybe the subwoofers are just a new version of the woofers?

Are you still planning on powering your quad subwoofers with a Yung plate amp? Do you envision needing any additional frequency shaping or active components in the H-frames to work with the Hestia-SL tops?

I believe both drivers are the same. If you notice they both reference the same Peerless manufacturer #830668. It's possible that the TS specs have changed slightly over the years.  The same specs are shown on the Tymphany website so I believe they are accurate.

I currently use a B&K power amp to drive the woofers, along with an F-mod passive inline filter. The Yung amps sounded fine; but I did experience a few failures while they were under warranty.  I decided to go the route of (used) vintage amps instead, for about the same coin.  I really like B&K stuff. 

[danvprod]

Thanks, I missed the same PN in the spec sheet on PE. Should be a nice setup. Good info on the B&K amps. I have been driving my h-frames with a Rotel RB-1050 that I scored on criagslist. It's a nice high-quality amp and I haven't felt the need to upgrade. Using it currently with the Mini-DSP to cross over the h-frames.

[matevana]

Testing the SL tops with the new double h-bomb frames. As expected the crossover will have to be re-voiced slightly. I am working on that now. Sounded good off the line but the four SLS woofers will improve over time. The surrounds are very stiff and will benefit from some play time.

[bladesmith]

If you like it. Are you going to attach the h-bombs to the SL tops ?

Or keep them separate ?

[matevana]

Yes, exactly. I'm working on separate bases for the Hestia SL tops that will allow table-top mounting (or bridge mounting) on the double bass bins. In Sketch-up it looks pretty cool.

[sjhomey]

Hi Matevana

I see the crossover components you spec for the Hestia-fortes are somewhat different than the revised component list you posted here in November. Have you settled on the Hestia-forte list as the final design or do you still like the components listed here? I think the Hestia-forte's are a little cheaper and simpler.

Peter

[matevana]

Hey Peter,

The SL requires a different crossover due to the way the Usher 8955 interacts with the design vs. the twin Peerless on the Forte. The LF slope on the Forte is steeper in effort to keep the Peerless from playing too high; this design also sheds the zobel-like circuit for similar reasons and therefore reduces the component count. Conversely the 8955 sounds better crossed higher and is instrumental in the SL design. The zobel circuit in the SL is needed to help the crossover track better, due to its more shallow slope. Finally the Neo's inductor value is slightly different on the Forte, again to conform to the desired voicing of this design.

Ed

 

[matevana]

If anyone is interested in building these, I have about 10 of the Dayton 10" pro sound drivers in a bulk pack. I will let them go in pairs only. Just make a reasonable offer.

[JohnCZ]

Hey Ed,
Really impressed with your Hestia-SL design. I've been 4+ years evolving my open baffle until I present, which now is the Alpha 15, Tang Band 1808 and a tweeter.  I almost pulled the trigger by ordering the drivers for your Hestia design until I read about the Hestia-SL.  Now I may have to build both!

I heard the Linkwitz 521 at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest and was convinced to build it. The main drawback for my was powering it with a 70lb. 8 channel amp. (plus all of the other assorted electronics).  I prefer simple designs and tubes or good lower powered solid state.

I am at the point where I would like to move on from my current open baffle to something with a slightly less footprint and the SL is perfect in that respect. A couple questions regarding the SL design.

I see that you have upgraded the low end with the H-Frame design. In keeping with the small footprint, could the 8" Usher be upgraded to a 10" driver? Or possibly the Peerless SLS 830452 used by John K in the Neo II?  (I thought of converting my Alpha 15 to two 10s just to narrow the baffle a bit. )

You stated that the primary difference between the Hestia and the SL as 'resolution and detail'. As I progress with my open baffle design, early on with average drivers both tubes and solid state sounded about the same. As I tweeked the components and drivers, the tubes sounded better.  Do you think one of the First Watt amps, ie. J2, F3, etc. would be a good match with the SL and not be too analytically sounding?

Again, great work and thanks for sharing.
John
pm you regarding the drivers.

[matevana]

Hey John,

Thanks for the kind words. Let me try to answer your questions. First off, you could absolutely replace the Usher 8955 with a variety of decent 10" drivers with almost no consequence to the design. I would try to keep the baffle width as close to the original design as possible and the driver height at the same relative proximity to the floor.

The SL takes full advantage of all drivers operating within their comfort zone. The selections are also fairly flat within their pass band which helps minimize the component count. The atypical crossover points (overlap/underlap) coupled with a varying degree of driver efficiency help compensate for dipole roll-off and eq. irregularities, again minimizing the need for active compensation. These ideas combined result in greater resolution and detail compared to the original Hestia design. The top 3 drivers have a combined system efficiency of 92 dB and will perform well with a variety of amps including most SET's. They also have a fairly innocuous impedance curve. I have not heard the system with a First Watt but I would bet the combination sounds fine.

The latest iteration replaces the Dayton Pro Sound driver with a 10" hemp cone driver for even less cone breakup and a smoother transition between the lower and upper midrange. I am very pleased with this upgrade.     

Unfortunately all of the 10" drivers I had left over from my bulk order with PE are now committed.

Ed

[sjhomey]

I've been listening to my SLs with the updated crossovers for close to 200 hours now. They sound very good. Well worth the extra cost, although I did scimp on the inductors. That cut down on the cost. I am using a home built Nelson Pass F5 amp. It plays the SLs very well.

Although I keep saying I'm finished, the hemp mid sounds intriguing. Currently I'm digitizing some of my older vinyl, an interesting nostalgic project.

Thank you Matevana.

[matevana]

Hey Peter,

Glad to hear you like the new crossover design. I've always felt that  inductors are less intrusive than capacitors so I too would have skimped in that area given the choice.

The Eminence Lil Buddy hemp cone is a direct drop-in for the Dayton PA-255, at least as far as the cut-out diameter and mounting holes are concerned. The driver is actually more efficient than the stated 4 dB difference between the two, so you will need to use an L-Pad (two resistors) to reduce the output a bit. You can do this at the drivers terminals if you are worried about messing up the aesthetics of your already completed crossovers. They are very smooth. They also have a higher Qts and FS than the Daytons, which lends itself well in this design. Linn Olsen reviewed a 12" hemp cone guitar speaker as a hi-fi driver and really liked it. You can read about it on his nutshell high fidelity website.

Lastly, if there is one more tweak you may be interested in trying, take a look at the woofer crossover topology in the Hestia Forte project.  It provides two different slopes at the same time in a passive set-up. The 12db/oct line-level crossover addresses the overall low pass function while the 6dB/oct speaker level inductor specifically addresses dipole roll-off. I have not seen this done before passively but it works very well if you're looking to avoid a more complex crossover. Mine is implemented monaurally in the Forte design, but it is easy to modify for stereo subs.  Due to a minimal component count it is very transparent.

Ed

[JohnCZ]

Hi Ed,
Glad I waited to buy my drivers - the Lil Buddy sounds like a great upgrade. You mentioned that the crossover basically stays the same except for a couple of resistors to balance the sensitivity in the system. What value resistors do you suggest?
At least for now I'm stuck with an amp without pre outs so I will try to build a different low end. Do you think a single Alpha 15 (passive) in a H-frame configuration would work? Later when I find an appropriate amp/pre I will upgrade to the SLS with a plate amp.
John

[matevana]

Hi Ed,
Glad I waited to buy my drivers - the Lil Buddy sounds like a great upgrade. You mentioned that the crossover basically stays the same except for a couple of resistors to balance the sensitivity in the system. What value resistors do you suggest?
At least for now I'm stuck with an amp without pre outs so I will try to build a different low end. Do you think a single Alpha 15 (passive) in a H-frame configuration would work? Later when I find an appropriate amp/pre I will upgrade to the SLS with a plate amp.
John

Hey John,

The Lil Buddy is more efficient (and detailed) than the Dayton PA255 in its midrange and can be attenuated with 2 resistors in a conventional L-Pad.  I used the Mundorf MOX 10 watt resistors as follows:

R1 = 6.8 Ohms
R2 = 2.7 Ohms



Note that the parallel resistor (R2) in this design should be the smaller of the two values (2.7 ohms). This is intentional. The Mundorf MOX are the best sounding resistors for the money that I have found. At $2.50 a pop they represent cheap insurance in any design and are well worth the cost. Their metal oxide blend is far superior to the ceramic core resistors IMO.

If you chose the Lil Buddy upgrade, I also recommend changing the value of the single resistor used in the upper mid Celestion Neo driver to 27 ohms. This will yield a proper level balance between all three drivers and measure more favorably.   

I see no reason why you cant use a single Alphas for the low end in the interim. Ultimately the Usher or Peerless drivers will provide even better results, but you can easily cross that bridge at a later time.

Let us know what you decide to do!

Ed

[JohnCZ]

Hi Ed,
Having been on a speaker building sabatical for a couple of months now, I've started assembling drivers and parts for the Hestia-SL only to find a couple of new impressive design builds with the Hestia V Dome!

I had planned to use the Lil Buddy as you suggested, but I see two new different drivers in the V. I've heard the Seas before and really like it. I also see the Eminence Legend as a replacement for the Lil Buddy.

Wondering if I should continue on the SL and move up to the Hestia V. What are the sonic advantages?

After a conversation with a friend about a low end driver, and in an effort to keep the overall profile on the slim side, he suggested as an upgrade to my Alpha 15, the Eminence Definimax 4015lf.
John

[matevana]

Hi Ed,
Having been on a speaker building sabatical for a couple of months now, I've started assembling drivers and parts for the Hestia-SL only to find a couple of new impressive design builds with the Hestia V Dome!

I had planned to use the Lil Buddy as you suggested, but I see two new different drivers in the V. I've heard the Seas before and really like it. I also see the Eminence Legend as a replacement for the Lil Buddy.

Wondering if I should continue on the SL and move up to the Hestia V. What are the sonic advantages?

After a conversation with a friend about a low end driver, and in an effort to keep the overall profile on the slim side, he suggested as an upgrade to my Alpha 15, the Eminence Definimax 4015lf.
John

Hey John,

Great question. The Lil Buddy has a unique voicing that is very pleasing, and works well within the context of the SL. It is somewhat dark sounding, with little or no breakup and very smoooooooth!  This is especially appreciated if you listen to lower rez music that is compressed. Not as harsh on the ears. The maximum volume is limited to the physical excursion of the Lil Buddy, which is a bit less than other drivers with more xmax. Note that the Lil Buddy is first and foremost a guitar speaker, very seldom generating tones below 100 Hz.

The Hestia V  and Hestia V Dome are similar designs, but employ an Eminence Bass Guitar driver which is very efficient, uses a whizzer cone for extended mids, and has 4-5x the maximum excursion. I randomly came across this driver while doing a repair, and I really liked it.  In fact, it is now my favorite low mid driver for OB. It just seems to have the right combination of characteristics.  It also seems to be very accepting of a variety of mids and high frequency driver combinations.

I also REALLY like the Seas Curv cone series of mid couplers. Both the FU10 and MU10 are great sounding drivers. Whatever the cone technology (combination of materials and weave) is, Seas has produced a really exceptional mid at a reasonable cost. I don't have enough play time with the MU10 to recommend one over the other... but nothing bad to say about either.

If you haven't collected all the drivers yet and there is still time, I would suggest building either the Hestia V or Hesta V Dome. The end product is a notch above the SL.

Ed