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Bottomline, it is more rewarding and cost efficient to buy high quality professional drivers, follow basic construction principles widely available and go active filtering. Think for instance that Kenrick is offering a refurbished JBL 4343 pro monitor for about $16k a pair plus transportation. Compare this with a Watt Puppy and there is no photo finish. Professional sound is comparatively cheaper than Hi End. As for the diamond midrange... buy a diamond ring to your wife in exchange for her letting you install larger speakers in the living room!
Don't despair Fred, I think the response you allude to is sort of twofold, one is explaining retail market prices vs raw materials cost, which is not specifically defending the high prices charged. The other viewpoint is still somewhat distaff relative to most AC'ers and is the one defending the high prices as warranted. There is still big support here for, in example, the GR research model of building your own speakers using the design expertise of a professional, and cost effective solutions like Salk Speakers, where you pay one entity a sustainable markup, rather than support a supply chain that is becoming less and less necessary. There's no, that I can recall, owners of the brands and models on FRM's list popping up do defend their expenditures, all hope is not lost.
I have only heard the more common lower cost drivers I have mentioned, so I can't comment on any of these higher priced full-range drivers. But after today, the prices don't seem quite as outrageous now that I know a $12K 2" midrange driver exists! (Yes, I know the "magic" is in the midrange).But I do understand the inherent problems of crossovers and am intrigued by a two-way with a crossover-less midbass driver that magically rolls off perfectly to a tweeter with a very simple high-pass filter, especially like the new Totem Acoustic Element Fire, but those are out of my price range at $6K MSRP. Maybe some used ones down the road!Steve
(..) So, everyone who bought a pr of Avalons or Wilsons is throwing their money away? (1) Have you heard them? (2) Why do you care?If you think your hot rod can beat a Formula 1 car, good for you. I happen to think Rolls Royce is overpriced, but I've never been in one. These generalizations about speakers are just as silly.
JBLMVBC, I gave a listen to Curt Cress "Thunder" and it sounds compressed to me, so I don't think you are going to hear realistic dynamics on any playback system.
Well it's CD so it won't be sublime. Yet, I know it can sound better than what the utopia offered.
So far, no megabuck speaker system I am aware of, has yet been sold with another source bass energy ie. Sub or Subs, to be located against the rear wall of the listening room.
Many people who buy mega buck loudspeakers may not be audiophiles, so their reasons for purchasing high end audio equipment are likely to be quite different than ours. I doubt that the guy buying a pair of $150,000 speakers is gonna tweak or mod out his gear, spend countless hours determining the best placement, obsess over burn-in, search the forums for input and ideas, call his buddies over to conduct crude AB tests, read the latest issue Affordable Audio, search audiogon for the best deals, etc. For them, it's all about status. Sound quality may not be a major factor. And, of course, they aren't concerned about getting value for the dollar. Let's face it -- if any of us had mega bucks to spend on audio, a significant part of our purchasing decision would be based on aesthetics. Personally, I'd buy a pair of the biggest tube monoblocks I could find, and sound quality would be a secondary consideration because I would assume they'd sound great because of the price.
If I had his bux, I'd do something about the walls - like remove them or something!
His system looks like it was set up in a racquetball court. A true audiophile with deep pockets would have designed an acoustic room where all of those panels would not be necessary.
To stay in business selling thru bricks & mortar, driver & cabinet costs should be on the order of 10% of retail. Keep inmind these guys will get OEM pricing, iften on unique versiona of drivers, and they will often hand select from what they buy and toss the rest.Peak Consult Zoltan - 34,995/$2950 = 8.4%Joseph Audio Pearl - 1/23,500/$1460 = 6.2%Wilson Audio Watt Puppy - 1/27,900/$1100 = 3.9% (very pricet cabinet material)Eggleston Works Andra 2 - 1/19,500/$1870 = 9.6%Avalon Eidolon Vision - 1/23,950/$1490 = 6.2%Verity Audio Sarastro - 1/29,995/$2380 = 7.9%dave
In the 90years I read in the late Audio mag(paper) that the loudspeaker industry profit margins were about 100% the cost price, and the dealer margin were also the same(100%).So with these data provided by Polymer site seems this Audio magazine info seems true.A raw projection:Drivers cost=10Cabinet cost=10Crossover cost=10Total = 30Factory profit=30Factory Price=60Dealer profit=40Grand Total =100 >>(MSRP to custumer=100)