[*Scotty*]

JLM if we are going to go this far off topic we should probably take further discussion to the Bass Place.
Scotty

[Scottdazzle]

The amount of markup does not equal the amount of profit. This is a gross figure and does not reflect the net profit a business might accrue before overhead is subtracted.
Scotty

Scotty, here's a big +1. Gross profits are reduced by such costs as salaries, rents, utilities, taxes, advertising, financing (e.g. loans and credit card processing costs, etc.), business licenses, and on and on.  The net profits are usually modest or nonexistent. I  haven't noticed too many people getting rich in high end audio. 

If someone does get rich in audio... so what?!  When did capitalism become a sin in America?  I certainly do not begrudge someone making a fair profit from my purchases.  I am free to make a purchase based on what I think is a reasonable price. 

The China argument is weak, too. I bet the Chinese factory owners are making fine profits.

[Letitroll98]

JLM if we are going to go this far off topic we should probably take further discussion to the Bass Place.
Scotty

You guys can do as you please, but the discussion so far is still pertinent to high priced speakers and their inherent bass problems.  It's fine with me if you want to continue on here, as long as it loops around to how the speakers under discussion could address the problem.

I've been thinking about this very problem that was addressed by a couple of manufacturers at the CAF show I attended recently.  If you keep your discussion here I'd elaborate later.

[blutto]

Not sure if I understand your post. The famous vintage and current fullranges are what they are, they are imperfect but the sound is good, musical and pleased to the brain, at resonable prices.
Of course FR can not pleased everyone, some people like multi-ways speakers.

...that post was just an attempt to figure out where you are coming from....and so far it has had the desired effect as you have, with prompting, moved from the term near perfect, which implies approaching perfection, to imperfect which is a much more reasonable position...and as builder of several speaker systems I have to agree that in fact drivers are far from perfect but that in the right enclosure and with the right ancillaries those imperfections can be minimized....but that process takes an enormous effort, considerable skill and sometimes some luck....and that process also requires money with which to pay the bills until a return on investment is realized ( if you are inclined to go retail with your creation )....now that process becomes even more costly if you are going to try something novel since experimentation takes even more time, effort, resources and luck than following the beaten path...

...so what you are in essence saying is....the stuff I play with, while imperfect, is good enough and also to hell with the existing business model because it has the audacity to make money....the main problem with that is you posit a model that is your accepted level of mediocrity and one would have almost no capability to move forward from that mediocrity because income which could be used for development will not exist ( and yeah the Chinese offer good prices but you know they are a wee bit weak on the innovation end of things....their business model is to forgo development cost and just copy copy copy...and sorry that is not a winning move as far as I'm concerned....me, I want to move ahead, and that requires profit....and usually lots of it.... )

Cheers

blutto

 

[*Scotty*]

Letitroll98, the speakers under discussion, if simply sold as pairs can't solve the problem. If they are fullrange, (ie. extension to 20Hz or better), the solution to the problem would be to include as part of the system, a delay processor and a pair of subs with the same extension.
Scotty

[fredgarvin]

Why can't someone with big bux be an audiophile hobbyist? I think you're incorrect.

I've met the gentleman pictured below, and been to his place, he tweeks and plays and enjoys it...

Nice shoes.

[fredgarvin]

You almost convinced me, if I were rich I would accept these prices, you are a good salesman.

10 points to you! 

[fredgarvin]

I also surprised by these various post defending these hi prices, maybe AC own a hi ratio of milionaires in the membership...

No, mainly chubby bald guys that want people to think they are millionaires. 

[FullRangeMan]

In my country the reality of these prices are to finance the hi life of these shop owners, here there is a audio distributor that own a large sports cars collection with Ferraris, Porches and now Ford GT40s.
His prices are 200 to 300% from the USA retail price, and they buy at factory prices.

[Rclark]

 The fact the Tonepub has "never heard a good diy speaker" now makes him incredibly suspect in my eyes.


 And I love the above picture. That guy rocks.

[fredgarvin]

In my country the reality of these prices are to finance the hi life of these shop owners, here there is a audio distributor that own a large sports cars collection with Ferraris, Porches and now Ford GT40s.
His prices are 200 to 300% from the USA retail price, and they buy at factory prices.

I remember the owner and proprietor of AV123, he was always schmoozing his customers and flaunting pictures of his new Porsche or townhouse, while having trouble delivering his products. Then he went to jail.

[thunderbrick]

In my country the reality of these prices are to finance the hi life of these shop owners, here there is a audio distributor that own a large sports cars collection with Ferraris, Porches and now Ford GT40s.
His prices are 200 to 300% from the USA retail price, and they buy at factory prices.

I didn't know you had an Audio Pimp down there!   

[thunderbrick]

Nice shoes.

He must be a football fan.  Man, LOOK at all those flat panel TVs!!  How the hell does one remote manage them all??   

[FullRangeMan]

Not gossip, the situation here is very worts than in USA, what they do is unbelievable.

[OzarkTom]

Avantgarde and Anthony Gallo seems used xoverless in the mid to tweeter, but I not sure the details.
http://www.roundsound.com/reference-strada.php

Since AGA has gone factory direct on the Classico series, the cross-overless Classico 3's ae now $1595 a pair. Now that is a heck of a deal. 6moons gave them a Blue Moon award last year. I had a pair here fo awhile and they sounded great.

[JohnR]

All of those panels are speakers

http://www.soundlab-speakers.com/

All of the panels? I was scratching my head at first, as it looks like the two speakers at the front have something partially covering them. Then I saw what look like MBLs to the left and right of the listener. The whole thing is confusing... could you elaborate? How many channels are there?

[*Scotty*]

John here is a link to the website the picture came from, I think there may be at least 24 channels.
http://www.ambiophonics.org/
Scotty

[ltr317]

That's Ralph Glasgal's Ambiophonics listening room.  Been in that room several times.  The ceiling is at least 30 feet high. 

[WireNut]

This is way I have never owned a commercial loudspeaker.
I can get better quality with less coin by building my own.

www.troelsgravesen.dk
www.humblehomemadehifi.com/

[Barry_NJ]

This is way I have never owned a commercial loudspeaker.
I can get better quality with less coin by building my own.

www.troelsgravesen.dk
www.humblehomemadehifi.com/

That's great, but many/most(?) don't have the time/skills/space/desire to build their own equipment, and to say that those running a business, to supply those people with the products they want, are ripping off their customers, is just plain wrong.