[FullRangeMan]

If one connect two Alpair 12P(green range) there is a 3dB up, so the SPL will top 100dB in various freq points on the audible range, which can be usefull for small tube amps...

[chrisby]

If one connect two Alpair 12P(green range) there is a 3dB up, so the SPL will top 100dB in various freq points on the audible range, which can be usefull for small tube amps...

have you actually heard this driver?

A single per side in the SuperPensil enclosure, driven by Jolida 302/ triode  (nominally 20w IIRC)  in approx 350sq ft room was capable of well over 98dB - louder than I normally care to listen to anything, even "live" music for extended periods of time

[ejfud]

So Chris, would you care to share what the low end difference is between the Pensil and SuperPensil?

[jacozz]

I feel that the "raw" data of this driver is presented in a deceptive way.
It looks reasonable flat, but it certainly not.

It's a trick with the scale.
If you look closer there is a about 10db difference in amplitude between 1k-2,7k.
Now, thats in the most sensitive region for the the human ear, and this is really bad for accurate music reproduction. This driver will shout in a similar way like the Visaton B200 do.

The other peaks and dips is not that severe for the ear.

[FullRangeMan]

have you actually heard this driver?

A single per side in the SuperPensil enclosure, driven by Jolida 302/ triode  (nominally 20w IIRC)  in approx 350sq ft room was capable of well over 98dB - louder than I normally care to listen to anything, even "live" music for extended periods of time

I had no listen the driver. I had no idea howmany M² are 350² foots, but it looks a lot of space.
The above post #20 Alpair graphic are for two driver in parallel, with a 3dB up.
For comparison Iam posting the original Alpair12P graphic below(for one driver).

[FullRangeMan]

I feel that the "raw" data of this driver is presented in a deceptive way.
It looks reasonable flat, but it certainly not.

It's a trick with the scale.
If you look closer there is a about 10db difference in amplitude between 1k-2,7k.
Now, thats in the most sensitive region for the the human ear, and this is really bad for accurate music reproduction. This driver will shout in a similar way like the Visaton B200 do.

The other peaks and dips is not that severe for the ear.

I though this Alpair freq chart similar to the Nirvana Super12CF, it looks both use the same kind of paper for the cone.

[chrisby]

I had no listen the driver. I had no idea howmany M² are 350² foots, but it looks a lot of space.

350ft² = 32.5M²  - not really a huge room by our standards here

[chrisby]

I though this Alpair freq chart similar to the Nirvana Super12CF, it looks both use the same kind of paper for the cone.

other than the overall shape is round, that's a bit of an assumption

[FullRangeMan]

350ft² = 32.5M²  - not really a huge room by our standards here

\O/ Uh, you are kid me, Iam listem in a 12m² room.(

[FullRangeMan]

I feel that the "raw" data of this driver is presented in a deceptive way.
It looks reasonable flat, but it certainly not.

It's a trick with the scale.
If you look closer there is a about 10db difference in amplitude between 1k-2,7k.
Now, thats in the most sensitive region for the the human ear, and this is really bad for accurate music reproduction. This driver will shout in a similar way like the Visaton B200 do.

The other peaks and dips is not that severe for the ear.

Any chance you would to know if the B200 are shouty in a OB panel or boxed??
Thanks

[mp9]

I feel that the "raw" data of this driver is presented in a deceptive way.
It looks reasonable flat, but it certainly not.

It's a trick with the scale.
If you look closer there is a about 10db difference in amplitude between 1k-2,7k.
Now, thats in the most sensitive region for the the human ear, and this is really bad for accurate music reproduction. This driver will shout in a similar way like the Visaton B200 do.

The other peaks and dips is not that severe for the ear.

If it helps any the A12P transfer function is raw without smoothing. My pair are undergoing the break in process driven by a 18watt Scott222 tube amp. I'm listening at ~2' above as if they were headphones. I'm not hearing vocal sibilance, shout, or other nasties...yet, fingers crossed they continue to please when in a proper cabinet.

[FullRangeMan]

If it helps any the A12P transfer function is raw without smoothing. My pair are undergoing the break in process driven by a 18watt Scott222 tube amp. I'm listening at ~2' above as if they were headphones. I'm not hearing vocal sibilance, shout, or other nasties...yet, fingers crossed they continue to please when in a proper cabinet.

Good report thanks;.
Do you think it would had a beautiful sound on a open baffle panel??

P.S.: Without a notch filter of course.

[FullRangeMan]

other than the overall shape is round, that's a bit of an assumption

Why do only I see these things? Am I the only bore here ...

[mp9]

Good report thanks;.
Do you think it would had a beautiful sound on a open baffle panel??

P.S.: Without a notch filter of course.

Well, because i'm trying to wait for Scott L's new box plans to happen, in the interim i'll mount it OB when they hit the 100 hour break in point and get back to you on that.

[FullRangeMan]

Well, because i'm trying to wait for Scott L's new box plans to happen, in the interim i'll mount it OB when they hit the 100 hour break in point and get back to you on that.

Great, all previous MarkAudio drivers had good sound, this 12P also should sound beautiful too.
Please, keep us at par from the developments.

[jacozz]

Any chance you would to know if the B200 are shouty in a OB panel or boxed??
Thanks

Yes, I'm using them in OB right now supported by 15 inchers in the bass.
Trying to tweak them and experimenting with tweeter support (Neo3)

My take on the B200 is that they really need some sort of correction network to be enjoyable.
Playing them raw, I get a servere headache   
I have just ordered Daves (planet10) phaseplugs hoping them will tame some of the nasties.
We will see.

I also have the Tangband 1772 for comparison, and they are in a different league. But I am planing to use them in some other (boxed) speaker project and playing true fullrange.




 

[jacozz]

If it helps any the A12P transfer function is raw without smoothing. My pair are undergoing the break in process driven by a 18watt Scott222 tube amp. I'm listening at ~2' above as if they were headphones. I'm not hearing vocal sibilance, shout, or other nasties...yet, fingers crossed they continue to please when in a proper cabinet.

Nice drivers
I know that the "raw data" will look bad and one should not interpret to much in such... my reaction was the way it was presented. Using a very "wide" y-axis makes the peaks and dips look smaller... just like Fullrangeman pointed out with his comparison.

But... I never heard them Alpairs, I hope they are good.
Please let us know

[planet10]

My take on the B200 is that they really need some sort of correction network to be enjoyable.
Playing them raw, I get a servere headache   
I have just ordered Daves (planet10) phaseplugs hoping them will tame some of the nasties.
We will see.

Anders (i'm assuming same user name as on diyA), your plugs were in the mail today

The phase plugs do seem to work well on this driver, flattening out the top end (probably more accurate to say redributing it). When we 1st got B200 we immediately started speculating about adding a helper tweeter, the need to stay off axis to avoid the laser beam top, and the very tight sweet spot. With plugs the laser beam (mostly) goes away and there is very little timbral change as one moves the width of the room behind the listening couch.

dave

[planet10]

extraneous

[jacozz]

your plugs were in the mail today

Thx Dave!
Time to cut them up!
It should be interesting...