[rw@cn]

Hello All,

Just a few questions about the positions of your Maggies and your favorite listening position.

How far apart are your Maggies and how far away from them do you sit? How did you arrive at this configuration, are you happy with it?

Just curious.

Thanks for any responses.

[medium jim]

The key factor in determining the Planar/Seating Positions is the size and temperment of the room, i.e. is the room square, L  or retangular, is the room lively, neutral or dead?

Jim

[Letitroll98]

Ha!  This is a topic that has been perennial on any planar or Maggie forum, for recent examples see here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104963.0
and here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=104084.0

[rw@cn]

 

[SteveFord]

Much depends on your spouse, too.
If you rearrange things when she's not around it's pretty much a done deal.
You'll pay for it, of course, but which is more important: speaker placement or domestic tranquility? 

[Letitroll98]

Oh no, I didn't mean it as a criticism, just that it's a popular topic and kind of humorous that we all have the same question. 

Generally, out from the rear wall as much as possible.  Usually out from the side walls, however I may try a new placement mentioned on the threads I linked that have them hard against the side walls, go figure.  Width as much as possible without losing the center image.  With Maggies you can tell real quick when they are too wide, the central image goes diffuse quite dramatically.  A good starting place for all of this is the Cardas Di-Pole Speaker Placement Calculator, at the bottom of this page: http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring  I think this makes more sense than the 1/3 and 1/5 rules, but there are many proponents for those as well, especially the 1/3 for speaker and LP, which makes the most sense to me for those types of placements.

Toe in can be hotly debated.  Traditional ones are straight ahead; extremely tiny toe in, just a couple of degrees; facing a spot two feet behind your head; and facing directly at the LP.  Non-traditional starts with facing a few feet in front of the LP; facing each other 90° perpendicular; and the Rooze, or edge on to the LP.  These are discussed on the links provided. 

[kevin360]

  Did I actually read what you wrote?
  Give it to me; I deserve it!

Hotly debated indeed, but why would 'traditional' be that which is contrary to the manufacturer's recommendation? Magnepan doesn't give much in the way of advice, but they do provide placement/toe-in guidance, which you classified as 'non-traditional'. Perhaps, it would be best if we refrained from assigning either arrangement a designation other than geometrically descriptive terms. 

Actually, I think those terms should have broader definitions. Traditional should encompass all arrangements in which the speakers, more or less, face the listener on one side and the front wall on the other. Things like sideways & Rooze ought to populate the non-traditional camp.

 (Yeah, that's pretty much what you said, eh?)

I found the Cardas calculator a great starting point - I sort of designed my room around the Cardas calculation for 3.6s (with wiggle room). My 3.7s have been 7.3' off the front wall for a while (just for whimsy), but the speaker wires afford a bit more distance - really need to try it.

I should make one point about moving one's speakers and immediate impressions. Our brains, by 'design', react to changes with a bit of an extra kick of dopamine. If one just nudged his speakers around every few days in search of the location from which no reaction of, "Ooh, that sounds better!" were experienced, he'd continue the process in perpetuity. It's a tricky bitch to accomplish by ear - for a number of reasons.

Still, it really does seem that they like to be out from that front wall pretty much as far as one can accommodate - at least, I like mine that way. I've tried a few non-traditional arrangements that sounded amazingly good as well.

Alas, we all must wrestle with that monster we call compromise. All should take heart in the fact that fantastic results are usually attainable in an incredibly wide range of geometries.  Special beast, planars 

[satie]

I have used an equidistant arc of the speaker panels of my mod Tympani IV so that all driver's centers are at the same distance from a point either at my nose on the listening seat or 2' behind (a little better depth slightly less image precision). The spacing is 9 feet between the tweeters on the wide 20' wall. I have also done 8'. The mids and tweeters are 5'+ from the front wall, which dictates the arc and therefore the locations of the woofer panels which stretch out to 6.5 feet away from the front wall and about 1' from the sidewalls.

I am currently optimizing the HK/Limage positioning - bass panels close to the wall and pulled far into the room - 40%-nearly 50% of the long wall and seating about 20% from the back wall.  So far I have gotten a greater spread of the soundstage and far deeper with a more natural sounding rendition and strong sense of the recording acoustic, but image precision is not quite there. I am reaching the limits of the room in accomodating this positioning strategy. The main weakness is center image solidity on some recordings. It can turn rather ethereal. Close miked recordings tend to present the images in your lap or in your face. To give this placement its best chance you want to use the narrow wall rather than the wide one, but that is not possible in my room at the moment. 

 I am going to try one more position on this placement strategy and try out the edge wise positioning afterwards.

The HK arrangement seems very promising in what it did correctly for better recordings. On small ensemble Jazz it is very spooky real and you are presented with wide spacing of the players and piano in particular is impressive in that the notes don't spring out of a generalized empty space but you can localize the sounding board along with the piano notes so the piano has a much stronger and realistic presence. The normal foreshortened presentation of the depth dimension in orchestral recordings is pulled out to allow better perspective of the front of the orchestra. I have not managed to work out the back of the orchestra yet, and it seems that the room does not allow further adjustment as the speakers are nearing the furniture that can't really be moved. So I probably won't be able to optimize this positioning fully.

[Elizabeth]

Generally, out from the rear wall as much as possible.  Usually out from the side walls, however I may try a new placement mentioned on the threads I linked that have them hard against the side walls, go figure.  Width as much as possible without losing the center image.   I think this makes more sense than the 1/3 and 1/5 rules, but there are many proponents for those as well, especially the 1/3 for speaker and LP, which makes the most sense to me for those types of placements.

I like my 3.6 Maggies closer to the side walls some. I also added 'wings' to only the outside (Tweets in positioning)
My wings are just laid against the side, not screwed on.. of 1" red oak 6" wide the full height of the panel.
That brings out the bass . (also stiffening the foot on the bass side with some stiffening pins placed flat under the foot ends (on carpet) also enhances the bass/lower midrange

[MaggiesAndCats]

I had my MGIII's set up according to the Cardas calculator and found it to be enjoyable.  The whole system is disassembled right now to move to a smaller (alas) room.

I had an epiphany of sorts a few months ago when I walked between the speakers to play with the preamp while the volume was up.  Normally I would use the respective remotes to stop the CD playing and mute the pre.  The sound with the speakers edge on to my head was very different - nice full soundstage with more precision in placement but lacking some in tonal accuracy compared to my normal listening position.  Of course, I was listening to reflected sound from the back wall, which is mostly a built-in bookcase.  Still, it was quite intriguing.

What does this mean?  Can I do better at my "normal" setup?  Undoubtedly.  Will I try this again when the system is up and running?  Yup.  Am I going to try the Rooze?  Maybe.  The HK?  Depends on my speaker cable length.  When the system is in the new room I will necessarily have to play with the placement, so it will be time to experiment.

Regards,

Steve

[rollo]

   I was lucky enough to have Scot Markwell who was Harry Pearsons set up man. Pearsons room is ideal for Maggies . They measure flat in his room.
  Anyway, Scot moved our speakers [ 3As] closer together with the tweeters on the "inside". Our room is 17ft long with an irregular width that varies.  About 6' apart with 20-degree toe in. Then he moved the listening chair back and forward to get the sweet spot, done. Toe- in was adjusted accordingly. Toe - in was the biggest factor IMO as well as speakers being closer together.
    Maggies need space around them to sound their best.  Especially the rear wall. The more the merrier. If one uses a sub with their Maggies setting them up at the rear wall  as far away as possible creates the illusion of the recording space in spades.
    As an aside if the tweeters are close to a side wall put them on the inside as the reflection of such will cause an over active top. They are revealing enough we do not need to enhance the top.
    Another tweek is to remove the wood side trim and replace with a piece of quarter round wood trim where the flat part of the trim faces towards the rear.  Or get some PCV pipe 2" or 3" in dia. cut a slit length wise and pressure fit to side . Make round end caps and fill with sand, lead shot or best yet steel sandblasting material.
   A richer fuller sound with an ilarge soundstage is the result. Have fun trying.


charles
 

[Hasse]

   I was lucky enough to have Scot Markwell who was Harry Pearsons set up man. Pearsons room is ideal for Maggies . They measure flat in his room.
  Anyway, Scot moved our speakers [ 3As] closer together with the tweeters on the "inside". Our room is 17ft long with an irregular width that varies.  About 6' apart with 20-degree toe in. Then he moved the listening chair back and forward to get the sweet spot, done. Toe- in was adjusted accordingly. Toe - in was the biggest factor IMO as well as speakers being closer together.

Jonathan Valin also recommended that the Magnepans should not be placed too widely apart as this would weaken midbass impact and image focus.
How far away from the panels is your listening position? I am about 13 feet away from my 3.7´s, don´t like near field listening with large panels.

[berni]

Jonathan Valin also recommended that the Magnepans should not be placed too widely apart as this would weaken midbass impact and image focus.
How far away from the panels is your listening position? I am about 13 feet away from my 3.7´s, don´t like near field listening with large panels.

Nearfield is always the real sound the speakers produce, with as little as possible reflection and sound being produced from the room.
13 feet away is a lot if the speakers are not wide apart, on the other hand it is nearfield if they are 13 feet or more apart.

[Hasse]

Nearfield is always the real sound the speakers produce, with as little as possible reflection and sound being produced from the room.
13 feet away is a lot if the speakers are not wide apart, on the other hand it is nearfield if they are 13 feet or more apart.

They are approx 10' apart, outer edge to outer edge.
When I have heard the 20.1´s I have always preferred a listening distance of at least 13' and 10' or less is a  in my book... even if they are rather close together.

[berni]

You shouldn't excess the equilateral triangle much.

[satie]

You shouldn't excess the equilateral triangle much.

I have not found the equilateral triangle to be anything useful beyond a starting point. Quite the contrary, I found both very narrow triangles and very flat triangles provide better results in terms of precision (narrow) or natural soundstaging (wide and away from the front wall), the equilateral triangle is not really a better compromise, it either errs towards the properties of a far listening position or a flat one depending on the room acoustics.

[Wayner]

Nearfield is always the real sound the speakers produce, with as little as possible reflection and sound being produced from the room.
13 feet away is a lot if the speakers are not wide apart, on the other hand it is nearfield if they are 13 feet or more apart.

I listen to near field in my studio with the speakers at 9.6 feet apart and I'm 7 feet way from a line that connects the 2 speakers. There is some room interaction, but not much. There is total 3D action.

My MartinLogans are 10 feet apart with my listening position 10 feet away from a line that connects the 2 speakers. In this room, 28 feet X 32 feet, there is no other position that seems to work out. The largest problem with planar or electrostatic speakers is their panel. The radiation field has a iron clad relationship to toe-in angle, which also has a relationship with listener setback, which also has a relationship with rear (behind speakers) and side walls as these speakers are dipole radiators. That whole scenario forces position to be mostly the good old equilateral triangle or something resembling it, at least for me, and I'm done moving them around.

Wayner 

[Hasse]

I have not found the equilateral triangle to be anything useful beyond a starting point. Quite the contrary, I found both very narrow triangles and very flat triangles provide better results in terms of precision (narrow) or natural soundstaging (wide and away from the front wall), the equilateral triangle is not really a better compromise, it either errs towards the properties of a far listening position or a flat one depending on the room acoustics.

Here is the placement guide for the IIa I had in the early eighties. In those days Magnepan was recommending a more narrow triangle.

[berni]

They also recommend tweeters outside and only 3-4 feet as minimum from the rear wall. 
The best way is to test it out in your room and if you hear good you will define the correct position. Also you must try unconventional positions and placement. Not  just with the book in your hands and making +- 5 inch movements from the suggested placement.

[Hasse]

The best way is to test it out in your room and if you hear good you will define the correct position. Also you must try unconventional positions and placement. Not  just with the book in your hands and making +- 5 inch movements from the suggested placement.

I agree