[SteveFord]

Thank you, Wendell Diller and the Winey family, for having some sense and keeping your products within reach of mere mortals.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/upward-price-spiral

[medium jim]

Steve:

I too think it is outstanding that Magnepan has stayed true for 41 years to their core value of providing some of the best sounding speakers at attainable prices.  I agree with many of the Magnepan dealers that the 3.7 should be in the 10K range, but am glad they're half of that!

To me, Magnepan is one of the best values in hi-fi, hands down. One thing, not too many snobs buy Magnepan's as they aren't 20k+!

Jim

Funny thing, I gave my PSB Alpha's to a good friend who truly enjoys them with his quad amp/preamp. 

[ajzepp]

There have been many purchases in my 39 years that I was very excited about, but the one purchase I take the most pride in would have to be my Maggies. It feels great to support an American company that puts out a fantastic product at a given price point. And that Richard Vandersteen quote is very pertinent here, because the Maggies truly do exceed this customer's expectations. Some of you may recall when I was trying to get my buddy with the press pass at CES to visit the Maggie room. He finally did get there on the last day, and it's been fun listening to him talk about how amazing the sound was. I will also never forget the first time I heard Maggies. It was the MMGs that showed up to my house back in 2005. My mother had just been diagnosed with terminal metastatic breast cancer, and she was home when the speakers arrived. I set them up, brought some of her favorite CDs downstairs, and we listened to Maggies for the first time together. I still remember the Elvis live CD being the first one we put in, and just how amazing it sounded right out of the box. Since I was her primary caregiver at the time, we actually spent many a night watching movies on the Maggie set-up, and I'll always cherish those memories.

But to know that they get it right not only in terms of their products, but also with their approach to consumers, just adds to the legend that is Magnepan. I've been a customer for nearly 7 years now, and I can't imagine that ever changing.

As Steve said, kudos to Wendell and all the Wineys for all their great work and customer service 

[TONEPUB]

Steve:

To me, Magnepan is one of the best values in hi-fi, hands down. One thing, not too many snobs buy Magnepan's as they aren't 20k+!

Jim

Except you need a 10-40 thousand dollar amp to really get the 20.1's to sound amazing.  I've owned practically every pair of magnepans ever made and much as I love them, they give a pretty lackluster performance with a budget amp.  Always have.

 

[medium jim]

Tonepub:

Yes and no.  I would have to think any speaker would sound better being fed by most 10-40K amps.  I agree that not just any amp will make any true ribbon Maggie sing her best.  With that said, there are many wonderful amps in the 5K range that perform very well.

Jim

[Rclark]

 I would take Tone's word for it 

[thunderbrick]

Except you need a 10-40 thousand dollar amp to really get the 20.1's to sound amazing.  I've owned practically every pair of magnepans ever made and much as I love them, they give a pretty lackluster performance with a budget amp.  Always have.

Not that I've heard $10k+ amps but my Moscode 300 is doing such a good job on my 20.1s that I haven't even hooked up the 2nd amp yet. Maybe ignorance is bliss?

[Davey]

Except you need a 10-40 thousand dollar amp to really get the 20.1's to sound amazing.  I've owned practically every pair of magnepans ever made and much as I love them, they give a pretty lackluster performance with a budget amp.  Always have.

I would suspect the majority of 20.1 owners (or any Maggie speakers for that matter) are not driving their speakers with an amplifier that costs more than 10k dollars.  All of these owners are experiencing pretty lackluster performance??

What your take on the concept that price has nothing to do with amplifier performance?

Cheers,

Dave.

[Elizabeth]

IF I went for 20.7s in place of my 3.6s.. I would also want to go with Bryston 28B-SST2 amps.. At  $20,000 for a pair, just what is needed.
For my 3.6's I have a 4B-SST2 amp. Pretty much an equal dollar for dollar amp to speaker price.

[SteveFord]

IF?
I think it's more like WHEN.

[medium jim]

I would take Tone's word for it 

So with that said, a guess a pair of Ncores wouldn't be good enough for any large Maggie that you make partake in?

I agree with Brick and Davey that money is not a determinate of how good an amp will perform or will handle a particular speaker.  More to the point, the typical person who is going to buy a pair of large Magnepan's is savvy and will use that savvy with the other gear they buy. 

Jim

[Rclark]

No, has nothing to do with it. It's just that The experience of gear you have, Tone has 10000x over.

It's his very bread and butter.

[satie]

Except you need a 10-40 thousand dollar amp to really get the 20.1's to sound amazing.  I've owned practically every pair of magnepans ever made and much as I love them, they give a pretty lackluster performance with a budget amp.  Always have.

That is why I am so disappointed that magnepan took out the option of biamping their speakers without gutting the XO and voiding the warranty. Making an amp that is world class both in power/bass/dynamics and resolving but rich in the top end is a difficult and costly endeavor. One has to give up on something to make it happen.
While the top will sound great and fill a large room with as little as 50 watts of tube power, the bottom end rarely comes alive with less than 500 watts/4ohms, and needs double that in a large room, and the 20.1 needed even more.

The simpler XO of the .7 series does reduce the power requirements some, but the big maggies still pose a big driving problem, as JV inadvertedly pointed out in his blog review of the 20.7. He did not have a sufficiently powerful amp with good SQ to get the most out of the speakers. If it was an issue for him, imagine what it is like for everyone else.

Bryston 7B ST for a 3.7 and a 28 for a 20.7 are steep enough in cost at $10k and $20k respectively, but they don't exactly cary the last word in tonal fullness and airy refinement at the top.  To do that driving the 20.7 in a large room you would be hiring a crew to place Pass X1000.5 monoblocks at $35k. On the other hand, biamping, you can spend $3k on a Crown MA5000 series  and hide it where the fan won't be heard, and you can splurge $11k on a Pass XA60.5 class A amp and have better sound.

[medium jim]

No, has nothing to do with it. It's just that The experience of gear you have, Tone has 10000x over.

It's his very bread and butter.

Once again, you are making statements when you have no clue as to what experience I have, rather rude don't you think?

Jim

[Rclark]

Do you run an Audio magazine? Do you have access to pretty much whatever you want and have for some time? Not a great leap to assume the answer is no, dont take it personally.

[medium jim]

That is why I am so disappointed that magnepan took out the option of biamping their speakers without gutting the XO and voiding the warranty. Making an amp that is world class both in power/bass/dynamics and resolving but rich in the top end is a difficult and costly endeavor. One has to give up on something to make it happen.
While the top will sound great and fill a large room with as little as 50 watts of tube power, the bottom end rarely comes alive with less than 500 watts/4ohms, and needs double that in a large room, and the 20.1 needed even more.

The simpler XO of the .7 series does reduce the power requirements some, but the big maggies still pose a big driving problem, as JV inadvertedly pointed out in his blog review of the 20.7. He did not have a sufficiently powerful amp with good SQ to get the most out of the speakers. If it was an issue for him, imagine what it is like for everyone else.

Bryston 7B ST for a 3.7 and a 28 for a 20.7 are steep enough in cost at $10k and $20k respectively, but they don't exactly cary the last word in tonal fullness and airy refinement at the top.  To do that driving the 20.7 in a large room you would be hiring a crew to place Pass X1000.5 monoblocks at $35k. On the other hand, biamping, you can spend $3k on a Crown MA5000 series  and hide it where the fan won't be heard, and you can splurge $11k on a Pass XA60.5 class A amp and have better sound.

Satie, I think Magnepan had to change the X/O's and discontinued multiple binding posts to allow for bi-amping due to the quasi ribbons now being used on the 3.7 & 20.7's. 

Funny thing, I've never been a proponent of bi-amping as I prefer to keep things simple and in that I choose one outstanding amps over a pair of good amps which there are many out there that are less than 10K, both SS and Tube.   

The beauty of all of this that there will be just as many right ways as wrong ones to amplify a pair of large Maggies.   Bi-amping as you suggest would sound wonderful, but so can single amplification. 

Again, I believe that most folks who will buy 3's or 20's are rather resourceful and that will also lend that savvy to which amp or amps they buy.  I would love to hear bricks 20.1's with his Moscode for example or Kevin360's 3.7's with his VAC Phi 300, knowing both will be sublime. 

Jim

[medium jim]

Do you run an Audio magazine? Do you have access to pretty much whatever you want and have for some time? Not a great leap to assume the answer is no, dont take it personally.

Yet another assumption, I don't take you seriously or personally....

Jim

[Rclark]

  um.. Do a little research Jim before you get all uptight. I guarantee that guy has touched more gear than you or I ever will, and also stuff far beyond both our budgets combined then multiplied by five.


 

[ajzepp]

With all due respect to TONEPUB, I'm not sure that just because someone runs an audio magazine that you should just "take their word for it". I've been active in this hobby for the past 12 years or so and I can count on one hand the number of people I could say that about. I don't know if that's what Jim was taking issue with specifically, but while I usually listen to what most people have to say, I also take it mostly with a grain of salt. This hobby is way too subjective to substitute the opinion and experience of someone else for your own.

I have only heard an uber high end amp on a few occasions (Oasis monoblocks), so I can't speak to that, but I can attest to the fact that I don't recall ever hearing my Maggies sound "lackluster". I prefer the way my 3.6s sound currently in their active bi-amp configuration, but even when I just had a single 150watt channel of Butler amplification to each speaker they still sounded really damn good to me. I'm sure the 20s need a ton of juice, but I can power the 3.6s to ear splitting levels and have a hard time believing a higher end amp would make a significant difference in terms of their presentation.

[Rclark]

 AJ, you rock man  . But in this situation, while you're, as you said, "having a hard time believing it", Tone has been there done that.

 It is often said that Maggies get better and better with better power. I don't own 20.1's. You don't own 20.1's.... Jim doesn't own 20.1's.

 ..Tone has probably heard 20.1's with all kinds of amplification. He can back up his opinion with first hand experience. 

 ...Jim doesn't like me because I'm a Magnestand customer and my speakers are prettier than his  . I can see now that that will never go away.