Why power cord?

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yo2tup

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #40 on: 10 Mar 2012, 01:04 am »
DD, if you have the chance to dig up that URL I would love to read it. I am interested if the studio's have chosen the  after market cables for the sonic benefits? Or perhaps it's the build quality, and the ability to order custom length/bundles and or perhaps sponsorship?

Cheers,

Scott

Not the Tonepub article he was referring to, but here's a link to a studio that uses Lessloss power cables

http://www.lessloss.com/recording-studio-installation-project-p-201.html


werd

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #41 on: 10 Mar 2012, 03:49 am »
So if you cant hear the difference in power cords something downstream is crap......

Really?? Thats how you justify it? All those that hear a difference have better systems, or they are the ones that actually listen?......heres a thought, try turning that around, it would be just as ridiculous.

Yup... better doesn't mean more expensive.

jazzerdave

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #42 on: 10 Mar 2012, 04:32 am »
If anyone cares, I'll share my experience with aftermarket power cords.  I haven't used that many of them, but I have used a Pangea and made a few for myself.  One of the DIY used 12 AWG silver plated OFC copper with a foil shield and a copper braid, another used the same wire simply braided without a shield, and the last was made from Belden 83803 (I think that's the right number).  The Belden was essentially the same but used tinned copper rather than the silver plate with teflon insulation.

I rent my house, and therefore do not have the opportunity to be picky with the circuits and power receptacles, nor can I really afford expensive power filtration.  I plug all of my gear into Triplite Isobars which provide good surge protection and supposedly some amount of isolation, but my power situation is far from refined.  I've found that there wasn't a huge difference between the non-shielded DIY, and a generic 14 AWG cord, but my amps did seem to respond better with it when compared to 16 or 18 AWG generics.  When I compared the shielded cables to the generic cords, I found more noticeable differences depending upon which outlets were used and the arrangement of the other cables in the system.  I've found that I prefer to use unshielded IC's, and I do tend to pick up a little bit of noise when they cross my unshielded mains cables.  I did blind listening tests when trying to make my judgements, having my brother switch the cables without telling me which he used first.  They certainly weren't the most scientific tests, but I'd like to think that I didn't have a placebo effect involved.

Even though I noticed effects, they were at least somewhat dependent upon other factors (cable routing, circuit isolation, etc.).  My conclusion has been that some change can be helpful and sometimes necessary, but if the manufacturer included a cord that >= 14 AWG, you're probably fine (unless you have shielding needs).

(By the way, my brother is and electrical engineer.  He never did any calculations, but did indicate that cable shielding shouldn't be necessary if you can separate your cords by a few inches - unless of course you live near a large transmitter.  I just find it easier to shield my cords than to use cable supports and other tricks to keep them separated from my other cables and wires.)

PDR

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #43 on: 10 Mar 2012, 04:34 am »
Yup... better doesn't mean more expensive.

Agree there....so what what power cords do you use? and what differences do you perceive?

Letitroll98

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #44 on: 10 Mar 2012, 05:43 am »
Does anyone think the main difference between stock and aftermarket cords is the connector used?  I suspect this may be the main difference in SQ.  Just a guess put in my head by a post I read recently somewhere. 

To answer D-Dog's plea for experience, I had or have used Zu Cable, WyWires, and Shunyata PCs in my system, I can detect vanishingly small differences between them, all sound much better than any stock cord I've had.  The biggest differences are blacker backgrounds, more impactful dynamics, more finely drawn images, pretty much the stock answer, sorry, it's what I hear.

PC's are not the last link in a long supply chain from the power plant, they are the first thing sitting between the positive and negative legs of your component.

I deeply respect anyone's opinion who has tried any aftermarket PC, no matter the brand or price, and has heard no change in their system for better or worse.  As noted I do hear a marked difference to the good.  I cannot abide anyone giving opinions who hasn't at least tried something, especially with the plethora of free trial periods available from numerous manufacturers and resellers.  If you care enough to post on this thread you should certainly be curious enough to try something, anything, especially since Bryston is such a fine product line and I would think you'd want to maximize the potential of the product.  If it doesn't work for you, you'd be out maybe the return shipping, and for that small price you'd be able to crow even louder on these types of threads.

And yes, it's silly to debate this topic, no one is ever convinced.  What's interesting to read is peoples experiences, whether pro or con.

 

Diamond Dog

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #45 on: 10 Mar 2012, 06:54 am »
I have tried different power cords.

This is progress. Would you care to share your experiences with us?

I specifically chose to contribute to this thread because i have pretty strong feelings about this subject.. I do not have a EE. However, i do have a decent amount of education in electrical theory/application.. The audio world is one area that almost all of the propaganda has almost not science to back it up.

Feel free to contribute. Just don't mistake proselytism for contribution because we've all had a bellyful of that at this stage and you're already heading into the weeds with your last post. Don't feel obligated to save us from ourselves - we'll be OK. :thumb:

D.D. 

Diamond Dog

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #46 on: 10 Mar 2012, 07:12 am »
@DD
MOST knowledge is received. You can't try and do EVERYTHING.

 Nobody is lecturing. Giving opinions yes.

So feel free to tell us about which aftermarket power cords you've tried and what your opinion was - oh wait, you're using a battery-powered amp, no ? So we should care about your opinions on this topic because...?

C'mon, man...You know why I don't post in the Planar Circle ? Because I've never owned a set of Maggies or Logans or Acoustats, I know diddly about them and I'd just embarass myself. And rightfully so. A man's got to know his limitations...
 
D.D.
 

PRELUDE

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #47 on: 10 Mar 2012, 08:05 am »
So feel free to tell us about which aftermarket power cords you've tried and what your opinion was - oh wait, you're using a battery-powered amp, no ? So we should care about your opinions on this topic because...?

C'mon, man...You know why I don't post in the Planar Circle ? Because I've never owned a set of Maggies or Logans or Acoustats, I know diddly about them and I'd just embarass myself. And rightfully so. A man's got to know his limitations...
 
D.D.
D.D :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
That's exactly why I do not post in the planar circle
Any way just let your 300Bs go into the Bryston then your ears.
Power cord,fuse and audio racks become very important in this days but the number of us who looks for major changes and improvement are going down faster then you can think.
Even if power cord does make any change,yet the number of people who has the perfect room for listening are both lucky and just a few.

Diamond Dog

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #48 on: 10 Mar 2012, 08:26 am »

PRELUDE: At the risk of derailing this thread completely, have you got tickets to see RAMMSTEIN on the Canadian Tour this spring ( 'cuz I sure as hell do ) ?   :rock: :rock: :rock:

D.D.

PRELUDE

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #49 on: 10 Mar 2012, 08:34 am »
PRELUDE: At the risk of derailing this thread completely, have you got tickets to see RAMMSTEIN on the Canadian Tour this spring ( 'cuz I sure as hell do ) ?   :rock: :rock: :rock:

D.D.
No :o
Thanks,I will get it.I did not know they are touring
How about Alice Cooper opening for I Iron Maiden.I got that one. :D

Diamond Dog

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #50 on: 10 Mar 2012, 08:43 am »
No :o
Thanks,I will get it.I did not know they are touring
How about Alice Cooper opening for I Iron Maiden.I got that one. :D

Oh shit....thanks !

D.D.

Anonamemouse

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #51 on: 10 Mar 2012, 09:27 am »
PRELUDE: At the risk of derailing this thread completely, have you got tickets to see RAMMSTEIN on the Canadian Tour this spring ( 'cuz I sure as hell do ) ?   :rock: :rock: :rock:

D.D.

I saw them twice last week (Rotterdam and Belgium) and the show is (THE F WORD BIG TIME!!!) AWESOME!!!
And LOUD.

Diamond Dog

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #52 on: 10 Mar 2012, 09:33 am »
I saw them twice last week (Rotterdam and Belgium) and the show is (THE F WORD BIG TIME!!!) AWESOME!!!
And LOUD.

YEAH !!!!

Thanks Menno !

D.D.

sfraser

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #53 on: 10 Mar 2012, 01:08 pm »
Not the Tonepub article he was referring to, but here's a link to a studio that uses Lessloss power cables

http://www.lessloss.com/recording-studio-installation-project-p-201.html

Thanks! A great sale for the cable company. Interesting they did not mention the rational for the cable change? It appears as a retrofit and cable management install. Thanks again , I have never heard of lossless before.

Cheers

Scott

jazzerdave

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #54 on: 10 Mar 2012, 05:16 pm »
I first heard about LessLoss in Bound For Sound.  Martin DeWulf seems to be a really big fan of theirs.

Anonamemouse

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #55 on: 11 Mar 2012, 12:20 pm »
YEAH !!!!

Thanks Menno !

D.D.

It has been the first show in a looong time I watched all the way through, TWICE!
I usually vanish backstage after the 3rd song. The downside of working as a roadie is that after a year or 2 you have seen it all...

dubkarma

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #56 on: 11 Mar 2012, 09:02 pm »
I don't know what a well-heeled mastering facility might use for power cords, but I do know that, for interconnects, Mogami 2534 and Mogami 3173—both absurdly cheap by audiophile standards—are very widely used with $20K to $100K monitoring systems.

On the other hand, such facilities spend many thousands on room treatments and equalizers...

On a Bryston-related note, it's become almost standard to use Bryston amps with the widely used George Augspurger custom monitors, of which there are hundreds installed all over North America and abroad. Typically, a pair of 7Bs or a 14B drives the LF and a 3B or 4B drives the HF. These are often configured with the Bryston 10B crossover and the White Instruments 4700 digitally controlled analogue equalizer.

sfraser

Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #57 on: 12 Mar 2012, 01:50 pm »
I don't know what a well-heeled mastering facility might use for power cords, but I do know that, for interconnects, Mogami 2534 and Mogami 3173—both absurdly cheap by audiophile standards—are very widely used with $20K to $100K monitoring systems.

On the other hand, such facilities spend many thousands on room treatments and equalizers...

On a Bryston-related note, it's become almost standard to use Bryston amps with the widely used George Augspurger custom monitors, of which there are hundreds installed all over North America and abroad. Typically, a pair of 7Bs or a 14B drives the LF and a 3B or 4B drives the HF. These are often configured with the Bryston 10B crossover and the White Instruments 4700 digitally controlled analogue equalizer.

Room treatments and well applied equalizers is something I understand. Other than the WAF factor that is where i would be putting my spare dollars to improve the listening experieince.

rollo

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #58 on: 12 Mar 2012, 02:13 pm »
When Bryston was kind enough to do a demo of their complete system for our club the Audiosyndrome we used stock cords. Why ?
    Well a couple of reasons. First being the use of a stock system with Brystons own powercords. Second is that the power supplies on the associated gear is vey well designed and the need for further filtering may be moot. Stock the 28bs , B26 Pre and CDP sounded wonderfull. There was no desire to install any aftermarket cords.
   After the meeting a few of our members purchased Bryston 4Bsst2 B26 and CDP. Another the DAC. After break in they experimented with their aftermarket cords. To my surprise an inprovement was has with all components. Especially the DAC and CDP. not so much for the amp. The Preamp as well benifited.
   We used Triode Wire Labs Cryoed 8ga. and Omega Mikro active. Some preferred the TWL others the Omega. However all agreed that the addition of the cord made the sond different not always better.
   Brystons own PCs are VG. Others are different. One can only try if desired to find out if they prefer any differences perceived.



cheers
 

dubkarma

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Re: Why power cord?
« Reply #59 on: 21 Mar 2012, 04:16 pm »
Audio is, or can be, an expensive hobby, so I and, I presume, most posters here, have to decide where to invest their limited resources and where to hold back. Over several years, I tried various power cords, factory assembled and DIY, shielded and unshielded, UP-OCC copper and regular OFC or ETP copper, with ordinary Marinco and Hubbell connecters and with some quite expensive Furutech and Wattgate ones, and given equal AWG, I can never hear a difference. For me, that's been liberating, because I now feel free to focus my resources on upgrades and changes that to my ears do make an improvement: better components, room treatment, and, of course, more music to play!

That said, I have no problem with those listeners who switch in a new power cord—or IC or speaker cable, for that matter—and find real improvement in the performance of their system. Indeed, I'm glad it works for them! For me, it's just something that I don't investigate anymore. To be sure, there are hundreds of power cords I've never tried—some of them exceeding in price almost any one of my Bryston components—but then there's hundreds of components and speakers that I've never tried. For now, I'm just waiting to take delivery on some new (for me) discs from the Hadouk Trio and from Azam Ali (recently moved from LA to Montreal), among others: "yad yat te karoti tat tat kuśalam evāsti" (Sanskrit for "Whatever works for you is a very good thing").