[dakkon]

I personally think it's a sham. It's a power cord. Think about it.

And I don't think a premier company like Bryston wouldn't notice if something like their cord wasn't up to par. I think looking for upgrades in things like that is just silly. It's like someone with a big dent on the front of their car covering it with a flower garland. That was a bad analogy. Very, very bad. But you get the idea.

 Just my opinion. I've decided to opt out early. No wires for "flavor" (color), cables, stones, brass cups, etc. Just real upgrades that have a real impact.

Many people think that a premer power cord is imperative.. However, what many people fail to think of is the wire in the wall, going to the outlet that powers the equipment... Why is it that someone will spend 500$ on a 3' power cord, while they possibly have a 20-50' run of 12-18 gauge or smaller wire from the circuite breaker to the outlet that they are plugging in their 500$ power cord to? Why do these people not have an electrician come out and spend a large amount of money having their outlets re-wired.. Because you can not see the wire in the wall!!..... Sure a Very small percent of "audiophiles" do have their house re-wired, but i would put money on the fact that most do not....

[srb]

However, what many people fail to think of is the wire in the wall, going to the outlet that powers the equipment... Why is it that someone will spend 500$ on a 3' power cord, while they possibly have a 20-50' run of 12-18 gauge or smaller wire from the circuite breaker to the outlet that they are plugging in their 500$ power cord to?

First of all, (a) I have never seen a circuit breaker smaller than 15A in a household panel, (b) a 15A breaker requires a minimum 14ga wire from it to any circuit, therefore if you have something smaller than a 14g wire than I suggest you vacate the premises until an electrician can rectify the mistake.
 
The in-wall wires are not in contact with any other A/V cables, but a power cord certainly might be, so replacing an unshielded power cord with a shielded one may help minimize AC interference from being induced into audio or video signal cabling.
 
What people want to spend is up to them.  If you think you need to spend more than $100 for a power cable however, you may be better served by either assembling a DIY cord or choosing a cable company more aligned with a philosophy of honest value instead of inappropriate audiophile markup multipliers.
 
Steve

[PDR]

20 amp breaker, 10ga wire installed in wall when I was building my room.

Can I hear a difference with my $100 power cords?.....nope.
But like SRB says.....theyre shielded so it cant hurt.
But heres the other thing....they look good.
Whats wrong in spending the money for the looks?
A lot of time and energy went into building my room....and it looks like it.
With my gear stand pulled out 2' from the wall and only being about 9" tall,
when standing over it you see all the cables, nicely laid out.
Stock cords look cheesy....
My wife wears lipstick, does it make her perform better?....nope, but its a finishing touch.
Thats why "not stock power cord" in my system......

[dakkon]

 
The in-wall wires are not in contact with any other A/V cables, but a power cord certainly might be, so replacing an unshielded power cord with a shielded one may help minimize AC interference from being induced into audio or video signal cabling.
 
What people want to spend is up to them.  If you think you need to spend more than $100 for a power cable however, you may be better served by either assembling a DIY cord or choosing a cable company more aligned with a philosophy of honest value instead of inappropriate audiophile markup multipliers.
 
Steve

I don't think that there is anything at all wrong with people spending money on looks. It's their money, and people can spend it on what ever they want.

I just think many people worry about the wrong things, and do not have a fundamental understanding of the "whole" picture.  Also, without knowing the exat size of the magnetic field generated by a 115V power cord, i would assume that it would be minimal size. I will ask one of my buddies who has a EE to calculate the size of the magnetic field of a 115V 60Hz power cord... if the magnetic field is only a couple inches, then the chance of interference would be minimal..

There is a lot of EE involved with this hobby. However, i feel that many people that enjoy this hobby have little to no understanding of Electrical engineering, and may companies take advantage of that fact...

[srb]

Also, without knowing the exat size of the magnetic field generated by a 115V power cord, i would assume that it would be minimal size. I will ask one of my buddies who has a EE to calculate the size of the magnetic field of a 115V 60Hz power cord... if the magnetic field is only a couple inches, then the chance of interference would be minimal..

I agree that the field generated will not be huge and will decrease inversely proportional to the square of the distance, however in my setup and I'm sure many others, AC cords directly lay on other audio and video signal cables at various points and I'm not able to insure that they only cross at 90 degrees.
 
Therefore all of my cables are shielded and I don't have to painstakingly and accurately route them.
 
Steve

[Elizabeth]

I can hear  the difference with the power cord to my amp.
I was suprised when I bought a Pangea back when introduced. (read cheap) and The Pangea on my then amp a Forte' 4a made a clear improvement in the sound.
Prior to the Pangea I had tried some Audio Asylum cord designs as an alternate to the stock cord with no effect.

[dakkon]

I can hear  the difference with the power cord to my amp.

Are you sure there isn't a placebo affect at all?

I do not have Bryston amps, my amps and processor are from Krell.. I am also using the "stock" power cable's for all amps as well as the processor.. for the price of Krell, or Bryston dont you think they would include a different power cable if it was going to make a sonic difference? I mean at 5-10k$ per piece, what is 100$ more for a power cable if it is going to make their product sound better? 1% of the total cost...


I dont want to crash the thread and be the negative nancy here, i just feel that there is a lot of miss information out there and many people place their trust in the companies that manufacture product for this hobby. An easy example, is Monster Cable... I have a pair of speaker cables from them, and they are no longer in my system. Sure they look nice, and they cost a decent amount of $$... But for 1/2 the price i was able to get 10 gauge speaker cable with lower capacitance as well as inductance...


At the end of the day, the way something "sounds" is too subjective for anyone to argue that someone else can not tell a difference..


I guess all of the incorrect/miss information out there is a huge pet peeve of mine..

P.S.

 however in my setup and I'm sure many others, AC cords directly lay on other audio and video signal cables at various points and I'm not able to insure that they only cross at 90 degrees.
 
Steve

Steve, in my system some of my AC cords are directly next to a couple of my XLR cables, as well as speaker cables... However, i dont think there is any interference. I am not sure if my power cables are shielded or not, they could be and i just haven't looked close enough... my cables are more like a vertical bowl of spaghetti , my component rack is only about 2' from the wall...

[Diamond Dog]

I do not have Bryston amps, my amps and processor are from Krell.. I am also using the "stock" power cable's for all amps as well as the processor..

So rather than offer actual experiences that might relate to the OP, you're choosing to simply reiterate the same arguments we've all already read countless times in countless threads on this subject. Why on Earth would you even bother? Do you cling to some vain hope that your powers of persuasion are so much more highly developed than those of all who have come before you, and with that, aftermarket power cords and cables are being torn from wall sockets world-wide and cast aside as owners succumb to the sheer might of your oratory?  I, too am using stock power cables with my Brystons and other associated gear but was hoping to hear from others who's actual experiences differed from mine to see why they chose to go that route...

I dont want to crash the thread and be the negative nancy here...

Sure you do and you have crashed the thread ( repeatedly ), because...although to appear reasonable , you say this:

At the end of the day, the way something "sounds" is too subjective for anyone to argue that someone else can not tell a difference..

What you really think is this:

I guess all of the incorrect/miss information out there is a huge pet peeve of mine..

That's why discussions of power cords and cables always degenerate into train wrecks here and elsewhere: the objectivists always assume they own the intellectual high ground and act as though they are ministering to the ignorant savages, bringing them what they see as the enlightenment of the one true faith which the savages so desparately and obviously require. People take offense and hilarity ensues.
I'm not saying that the objectivists don't have valid points to make ( or the subjectivists for that matter ). Where the objectivist argument seems to fail to gain traction is when it lurches into condescension and / or evangelism. And it always does.

And for crying out loud, if someone hasn't actually tried something for themselves, what makes a person think they are in a position to lecture those who have on the error of their ways? Received knowledge - oh goody!

D.D.





 

[electricbear]

The effect a powercord has on a system is dependant on the system itself and the quality of the power being fed to it. I have played around with many after market powercords over the years and have discovered that the effect that a cord can have in one system may be entirely different in another system. I'm sure manufacturers are aware of this. Instead of including and charging for a high quality cord that may not work in your system it is better for them to give you a generic cord. That way you are not paying for a cord that may not work for you. It's kind of like the "throw away" interconnect that come with source components. They are intended to get you up and running but we all know that they don't sound good.     

[Occam]

....
Steve, in my system some of my AC cords are directly next to a couple of my XLR cables, as well as speaker cables... However, i dont think there is any interference. I am not sure if my power cables are shielded or not, they could be and i just haven't looked close enough... my cables are more like a vertical bowl of spaghetti , my component rack is only about 2' from the wall...

The typical shielding on power cords, signal cords, etc.... will do NOTHING to attenuate magnetic fields inductively coupling to other cables. To attenuate magnetic fields you need shields of a material such that its thickness exceeds the skin depth of the shield's material at the frequency. Permeable shields, like iron, steel, nickel, mu metal, etc... will work, or aluminum 9mm thick.

The shield in your XLR cable will be quite effective against electrical fields capacitively coupling to other cables, but will do naught with magnetic fields. For shielding against magnetic fields, one relies on distance, cable geometry  and load input topology. Magnetic fields inductively impressed upon a twisted pair are a common mode signal, that will be attenuated by the balanced input of the loads differential input topology.

You're not comparing apples and oranges, rather you're comparing a trout to a bicycle.....

FWIW

[sfraser]

Thanks, Scott.
Further to your thought about what gets used in studios for cabling, I seem to recall TONEPUB mentioning in a thread that contrary to what is commonly believed, some studios he's been in are using products like AudioQuest in their day-to-day operations.

D.D.

DD, if you have the chance to dig up that URL I would love to read it. I am interested if the studio's have chosen the  after market cables for the sonic benefits? Or perhaps it's the build quality, and the ability to order custom length/bundles and or perhaps sponsorship?

Cheers,

Scott

[centurymantra]

Many people think that a premer power cord is imperative.. However, what many people fail to think of is the wire in the wall, going to the outlet that powers the equipment... Why is it that someone will spend 500$ on a 3' power cord, while they possibly have a 20-50' run of 12-18 gauge or smaller wire from the circuite breaker to the outlet that they are plugging in their 500$ power cord to? Why do these people not have an electrician come out and spend a large amount of money having their outlets re-wired.. Because you can not see the wire in the wall!!..... Sure a Very small percent of "audiophiles" do have their house re-wired, but i would put money on the fact that most do not....

I have heard convincing arguments from people who sounded fairlly knowledgable that a power cord acts more as an extension of the power supply rather than an extension of the wire in the wall.

[srb]

I have heard convincing arguments from people who sounded fairlly knowledgable that a power cord acts more as an extension of the power supply rather than an extension of the wire in the wall.

I've read that in a few cable manufacturers ad copy, but I don't recall them presenting any explanation or convincing arguments.
 
Steve

[PRELUDE]

I have heard convincing arguments from people who sounded fairlly knowledgable that a power cord acts more as an extension of the power supply rather than an extension of the wire in the wall.

Must be a very long power supply.
Are you sure it is not a conditoner.

[dakkon]

And for crying out loud, if someone hasn't actually tried something for themselves, what makes a person think they are in a position to lecture those who have on the error of their ways? Received knowledge - oh goody!

D.D.

I have tried different power cords. But simply saying "hey, i have tried different power cords and they dont make a difference".. Well, that is not a very persuasive position... 


No, what i really think is exactly what i said...

At the end of the day, the way something "sounds" is too subjective for anyone to argue that someone else can not tell a difference..

 


 I am sure that there are a few things that you feel about Diamond Dog. I would also guess that you would want to attempt to craft a persuasive argument to convey your position. I specifically chose to contribute to this thread because i have pretty strong feelings about this subject.. I do not have a EE. However, i do have a decent amount of education in electrical theory/application.. The audio world is one area that almost all of the propaganda has almost not science to back it up.

[werd]

The effect a powercord has on a system is dependant on the system itself and the quality of the power being fed to it. I have played around with many after market powercords over the years and have discovered that the effect that a cord can have in one system may be entirely different in another system. I'm sure manufacturers are aware of this. Instead of including and charging for a high quality cord that may not work in your system it is better for them to give you a generic cord. That way you are not paying for a cord that may not work for you. It's kind of like the "throw away" interconnect that come with source components. They are intended to get you up and running but we all know that they don't sound good.   

I think its because they don't want to brand themselves with a particular cord or cord style. It only plays into the finnicky market of the buyers. You want to keep the market open to everybody and remain non partisan to any brand or style.

[werd]

So rather than offer actual experiences that might relate to the OP, you're choosing to simply reiterate the same arguments we've all already read countless times in countless threads on this subject. Why on Earth would you even bother? Do you cling to some vain hope that your powers of persuasion are so much more highly developed than those of all who have come before you, and with that, aftermarket power cords and cables are being torn from wall sockets world-wide and cast aside as owners succumb to the sheer might of your oratory?  I, too am using stock power cables with my Brystons and other associated gear but was hoping to hear from others who's actual experiences differed from mine to see why they chose to go that route...

Sure you do and you have crashed the thread ( repeatedly ), because...although to appear reasonable , you say this:

What you really think is this:

That's why discussions of power cords and cables always degenerate into train wrecks here and elsewhere: the objectivists always assume they own the intellectual high ground and act as though they are ministering to the ignorant savages, bringing them what they see as the enlightenment of the one true faith which the savages so desparately and obviously require. People take offense and hilarity ensues.
I'm not saying that the objectivists don't have valid points to make ( or the subjectivists for that matter ). Where the objectivist argument seems to fail to gain traction is when it lurches into condescension and / or evangelism. And it always does.

And for crying out loud, if someone hasn't actually tried something for themselves, what makes a person think they are in a position to lecture those who have on the error of their ways? Received knowledge - oh goody!

D.D.

D.D.

Its only because people tend to have other issues with their own system and they use power cords as the anvil to lash out on the hobby. Typically if people are not hearing a difference in power cords their system has a component that is playing boss to the sound and defining the entire's systems playback. Basically drowning out everything that would be adjustable like cords and frontends and or amps (depending on the component that is playing boss). Amps are notorius for this and thus drag a system's ability to resolve cable changes.

Its either that or they don't listen to their system ... at all.

[Rclark]

@DD
MOST knowledge is received. You can't try and do EVERYTHING.

 Nobody is lecturing. Giving opinions yes.

[PDR]

Typically if people are not hearing a difference in power cords their system has a component that is playing boss to the sound and defining the entire's systems playback.

So if you cant hear the difference in power cords something downstream is crap......

Really?? Thats how you justify it? All those that hear a difference have better systems, or they are the ones that actually listen?......heres a thought, try turning that around, it would be just as ridiculous.

[JBLMVBC]

Between the stock power cord and no power cord, I can only hear a difference when I turn the volume up.