[neobop]

I've been thinking about that Atlas plot.  It's really a traditional MC type plot, albeit some additional 20K rise. Phase non-linearity should end at 7K - also typical for a MC. Too bad the PDF is in German. The mount for the stylus is interesting. The nude square shank micro is mounted on a plate attached to the underside of the cantilever. Most are just glued on an exotic cantilever. This might add some tip mass, but would make a more rigid coupling. An interesting thing about recommendations for the Atlas is loading, 104 to 887 ohms to be specific. I find that both exacting and amusing, but this also implies extensive evaluation.

I saw this discussion a while back on Audiogon. Some might find it interesting.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1337907821&&&/Goldfinger-Statement-Lyra-Atlas-or-Ortof

[TONEPUB]

Funny, when I measured the Atlas with the Feickert software, it was almost ruler flat.  By ear, the most neutral loading with my ARC REF Phono 2SE was at 500 ohms and this was where I got the flattest frequency response as well.

Got a Goldfinger on the way, so anxious to compare the two.

[neobop]

Got a Goldfinger on the way, so anxious to compare the two.

This one?
http://www.tonepublications.com/review/clearaudios-new-goldfinger-v2/

[TONEPUB]

Nope, they've made an improvement...

This one:

http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/goldfngr-stmnt-cartr.html

[*Scotty*]

neo, do you have a link to the PDF doc for the Atlas?
Scotty

[neobop]

Scotty,
The only PDF I have is the one Toni posted on page 4. It's in German.

http://www.fastaudio.com/workspace/uploads/downloads/stp_04_12_sd_atlas.pdf

[*Scotty*]

neo,Thanks for the link, a picture is worth a thousand words. Why should phase non-linearity end at 7kHz?
The mounting puzzles me a little bit. I wonder why they didn't drill a hole with a laser in end of the cantilever ala Audio-Technica? Obviously I can get no sense of the size of the cantilever or the cross section of the square shank of the diamond, both may be smaller than the size of the end of the AT150ML cantilever.
Scotty

[neobop]

Scotty,
At primary high frequency resonance, 30K or whatever, there's a 180 degree phase shift. Phase non-linearity extends down each side of the peak to where it ends.  In this case it ends at 7K. Both MM and MCs have a naturally rising high end. This is controlled by damping. The same thing that controls amplitude response also compromises phase.  Ortofon reports that an undamped cart has spectacular imaging, but will make ears bleed. The plots for the Lyra carts look a little different. It might have something to do with asymmetrical damping.  That review is all I have to go on.  I haven't seen another. Apparently the Test Factory does the testing. They are credible.

If you need a copy of the Ortofon paper, send me a PM.

[TONEPUB]

Never know, a listen might convince you otherwise.  If the Atlas had that kind of HF rise, it would sound pretty shrill and it does not.

Just comparing a handful of files from 24/192 downloads that are also on LP reveal a pretty similar HF response, and digital files don't have that kind of a HF bump.

Sorry for being skeptical.

[*Scotty*]

There is also phase-shift associated with with the coil inductance and I wondered where that figured in to the equation.
Scotty

[*Scotty*]

Given that most speakers are listened to with some toe-in and most tweeters exhibit some beaming at 20kHz which results in their off axis response being down several dB above 10kHz, the HF rise the Atlas may have could result in a basically flat response to 20Khz. I can't hear anything above 14kHz anymore, speaking for myself I know I would never hear the flat response that a system with the LYRA Atlas might have due the the rising top-end.
Scotty

[neobop]

There is also phase-shift associated with with the coil inductance and I wondered where that figured in to the equation.
Scotty

That would only pertain to HO carts.  Inductance is so low in LO carts (uH), it's not a factor.  That's why cable capacitance doesn't much matter with LO carts.

The  popular notion that electrical resonance (combining cart inductance and shunt capacitance - see Hagerman calc)) causes a 180 phase shift at resultant frequency, is wrong.  Mechanical HF resonance is the sole determinate of this phase shift.  Electrical resonance has the affect of lowering the frequency of the  resonance peak and putting it closer to, or in the audible band.  The only actual measurement of phase vs amplitude I've seen, is in the Ortofon article from 1983. The plots clearly demonstrate this resonance peak and phase non-linearity in both MM and MCs.  The affect of phase is dramatic.  Spatial clues are important to most listeners. Phase non-linearity above the frequencies we consciously hear, will impact on those frequencies we can hear.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92138.0

[neobop]

Never know, a listen might convince you otherwise.  If the Atlas had that kind of HF rise, it would sound pretty shrill and it does not.

Just comparing a handful of files from 24/192 downloads that are also on LP reveal a pretty similar HF response, and digital files don't have that kind of a HF bump.

Sorry for being skeptical.

The plot for Atlas looked a little better than ones for the Kleos. The Test Factory also does testing for manufacturers.  Lyra might be one of their clients. The rise is about 6dB and looks like it starts at 7 or 8K, which is good. A MC with flatter response might have phase anomalies extending much lower, depending on HF resonance. It looks to me as if Carr manipulated the damping to preserve phase and amplitude integrity.
It could be, with unknown test conditions, that amplitude of the rise is emphasized. I suspect that with break-in and height adjustment, that peak could diminish considerably. 

I didn't read the report, but I heard Fremer measured a considerable SRA anomaly between Lyra carts. Maybe you noticed unusual arm height? I saw the diamond is mounted on a plate attached to the bottom of the cantilever. It looks rigid.  I don't speak German, but I got the impression that Stereoplay likes the Atlas.

With the Atlas has Lyra surpassed itself. Exuberance, bass, and naturalness detail the system combines exemplary.
Only the praise is a downer for nine  Stereoplay - Reference.
(Not 100% accurate - I doubt if the reviewer took nine downers that seems like a lot) 

[Toni Rambold]

Only the praise is a downer for nine 

(Not 100% accurate - I doubt if the reviewer took nine downers that seems like a lot)   

It's a saying neo, and has nothing to do with Martini.

It means that "only the price(of 9000 Euro) leaves a drop of bitterness behind".

[neobop]

It's a saying neo, and has nothing to do with Martini.

It means that "only the price(of 9000 Euro) leaves a drop of bitterness behind".

Thanks Toni,
My day job is stand up comedian, only I've been out of work for awhile.

A drop of bitterness?  More like a gallon.  I never thought of the Germans as masters of understatement, live and learn.  BTW, 9K euro is $11,157.  That must include tax.  I'm sure the Germans are thrilled these days with the Euro thing. It seems like such a good idea, what could go wrong? 

[Toni Rambold]

There was no ill will intended, neo !

Wermut = vermouth = Martini

Tropfen = drop

... and - Yes - 19% value added tax.

[neobop]

I'm glad someone appreciated the humor.  It doesn't always come through on these posts.

I see now that bitterness is bitters, an essential ingredient.  That might not be right either, depending on how you look at it.  19% value added tax seems like a bitch, but I guess if you can afford it in the first place.....

Whatever happened to Anna, the Ortofon opera star?  She's another titanium beauty. Out yet, any reviews?
I did see this:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/100/1000678.html

[TONEPUB]

Ortofon got behind on shipping.  Hopefully soon.

[Toni Rambold]

I'm glad someone appreciated the humor.  It doesn't always come through on these posts.

Thank You, neo !

I wasn't laughing at you, but about the reviewer taking nine drops of Martini after listening to the Atlas.