Tim Tebow

bpape · « **Reply #160 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 12:40 pm »

Doesn't hurt when you have a line that can actually protect you, and a defense that can shred the other team's offensive line all night. Swap teams - Tebow on the Pats and Brady on the Broncos and think about who would have had the better game....

Pats had a game plan and executed it to perfection. It was fun while it lasted and will likely be again next year.

Congrats to the Pats.

jackman · « **Reply #161 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 01:28 pm »

That game was brutal. The broncos were outclassed. The Pats are a better team in every category, especially coaching. Put Brady on the Broncos and Tebow on the Pats and i would still pick the Pats. Not to take anything away from Brady. In this system, he's as good as it gets and one of the all time greats. He will get a couple more rings and be in the HOF someday.

The Patriots are a monster talent and my favorite to represent the AFC in the superbowl. I don't see any AFC team beating them.

Good season for Denver. Who really thought they would make it this far? The Tebow stuff was way overblown but I don't blame Tebow. He seems like a decent young guy. Even though I don't share all of his views, it's hard for me not to like him.

macrojack · « **Reply #162 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 01:39 pm »

I don't hate Tim Tebow - never met the guy. However, I have seen enough of him to know that he can't throw a decent pass consistently. Yes. he won the Pittsburgh game but the Steelers were badly depleted. Ryan Clark, their best defensive player, can't play at Denver's altitude. Add in a badly hobbled Big Ben, a missing Mendenhall, a missing Pouncey and a bad game plan and you get an opportunity that any number of teams might have exploited. Nonetheless, the Broncos won in spectacular fashion.
But Tebow is not an accurate passer and he doesn't take care of the ball all that well. His completion percentage is the worst in the league and teams will quickly learn how to contain him just as N.E. did if the Bronkies actually do rise to point of contention. The novelty is gone and his ability to surprise other teams will go with it.
I wish he were what so many of you seem to think he is since he's my QB, but he is too much about clueless improvisation and too little about polished execution. Sure, there will be good days and lucky Hail Marys but more often there will be frustration and hapless blind thrusts.

Tebow ain't the answer if you are looking for more than mere story lines. Denver is stuck with this popular fantasy and may have to succumb to popular demand until the inevitable flame out. Then we can go out and get a more conventional, consistent and skilled signal caller.

jackman · « **Reply #163 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 02:08 pm »

Macro, nothing short of an impossible Superbowl victory was going to change your mind about Tebow. I think you opinion mirrors Elway's. The Bronco organization put his guy out there to shut up the fans and "prove" he couldn'tead a team to victories. When the Brincos won games with Tebow at QB, the same people who said he couldnt play, made excuses and did everything possible to NOT give him any credit, as you and so many have done.

I'm not sure if this guy will ever be a great QB. He lacks accuracy and is still learning the pro game. He does have some skills that are unique at the position and I think he has earned the right to compete for a starting position next year. While he will never have the accuracy of a Payton Manning, he may improve enough to be a consistent winner in this league, with the right pieces around him.

This year's Brinco team would not have beaten the Pats yesterday, even with a young Elway at the helm...his massive horse teeth gleeming under the Foxborough lights!

Sorry about the iPhone typos. Print is too small for me to proof read.

cujobob · « **Reply #164 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 02:29 pm »

There are plenty of backup qbs who will be winners with the right guys around them. Tebows success at the Pro level is likely similar to that of the Wildcat formation. Peyton Manning wins with bad players around him. Rodgers and Brees aren't even in that territory.

jackman · « **Reply #165 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 02:55 pm »

Peyton might be available! If Indy cuts the cord on Manning and the Broncos can get him, are they good enough at the other positions to make it work? Manning takes a lot of heat around here but I'd take a healthy Payton manning over anyone. The Broncos might not be good enough on defense to win it all with Manning but it would be fun to watch.

Not to get sidetracked but have you followed the situation with Calvin Johnson's contract? Detroit might be forced to pay him over $25 million per year and more the following year, up to 25% of their total payroll if they can't sign him to a long term deal. Larry Fitzgerald is making about ten million per year less than CJ will make. That's crazy because they are pretty close in talent level.

vinyl_lady · « **Reply #166 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 04:04 pm »

There is no question there are a lot of flaws in his passing game, from reads, timing, throwing motion and accuracy. He can improve in those areas working with the right coach/mentor. He certainly has the work ethic. However, he has some qualities not many in athletics have. Call it the "it" factor to use a cliche and for lack of a better term. He inspires his teammates and raises their level of play.

Four & 1/2 games into the season the Broncos were 1-3 and getting pounded by San Diego at home and were a contender in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Fox inserted Tebow and they almost pulled it that game out. They won 6 of the next 7 and backed into the playoffs and won a playoff game. No one would have dreamed this was possible at the beginning of the season, let alone when they were 1-4 and in last place in the division. Kyle Orton wasn't going to get the Broncos to the playoffs. It was an amazing and entertaining run, especially for Bronco fans.

He has succeeded at every level he's played and IMO he has earned a shot at being the starter next year. He will work very hard in the off season to try to get better. Whether he can improve enough to be a long term starter and make the playoffs year after year is yet to be determined.

macrojack · « **Reply #167 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 04:29 pm »

Quote from: vinyl_lady on 15 Jan 2012, 04:04 pm

There is no question there are a lot of flaws in his passing game, from reads, timing, throwing motion and accuracy. He can improve in those areas working with the right coach/mentor. He certainly has the work ethic. However, he has some qualities not many in athletics have. Call it the "it" factor to use a cliche and for lack of a better term. He inspires his teammates and raises their level of play.

Four & 1/2 games into the season the Broncos were 1-3 and getting pounded by San Diego at home and were a contender in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. Fox inserted Tebow and they almost pulled it that game out. They won 6 of the next 7 and backed into the playoffs and won a playoff game. No one would have dreamed this was possible at the beginning of the season, let alone when they were 1-4 and in last place in the division. Kyle Orton wasn't going to get the Broncos to the playoffs. It was an amazing and entertaining run, especially for Bronco fans.

He has succeeded at every level he's played and IMO he has earned a shot at being the starter next year. He will work very hard in the off season to try to get better. Whether he can improve enough to be a long term starter and make the playoffs year after year is yet to be determined.

This is an objective and, in my opinion, accurate assessment.

NFL defenses took him too lightly this year because he doesn't appear to have the skills to be formidable. Apparently Dick LeBeau is a good example of that error. This mistake is unlikely to continue. Opponents will game plan for Tebow and his limitations. On the other hand, Denver's defense might improve enough to buy Tebow a little less scoring need. I think that the injury to Vonn Miller and the loss of Brian Dawkins contributed heavily to Denver's 3 game losing streak at the end of the season, but that does not excuse scoring only 3 points against KC.

As long as the NFL elite include Patriot grade powerhouses, there will be no team going all the way with Tebow's limitations.

bunky · « **Reply #168 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 04:29 pm »

i like Tebow he plays hard and i believe he will get much better if given a chance.on the other hand i cant stand Tebowmania

soundbitten1 · « **Reply #169 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 04:54 pm »

Tebow was the right QB for the right time for Denver this year. IMO his long term success is questionable.

thunderbrick · « **Reply #170 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 05:08 pm »

Quote from: bunky on 15 Jan 2012, 04:29 pm

i like Tebow he plays hard and i believe he will get much better if given a chance.on the other hand i cant stand Tebowmania

Ditto on Tebowmania, but what's worse is the flagrant piling on because the guy's not the second coming of the immortal Johnny Unitas, whom I had the pleasure of meeting some 40 years ago. I got to kiss his ring.

jackman · « **Reply #171 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 05:29 pm »

Quote from: soundbitten1 on 15 Jan 2012, 04:54 pm

Tebow was the right QB for the right time for Denver this year. IMO his long term success is questionable.

Questionable success? You could say the same about any young unestablished quarterback. I don't know what you mean about "right QB at the right time" comment. He came in and helped win some games but also had some inconsistent play and struggled at times. I'd like to see him after a full training camp and with an offense built around his strengths.

Not saying he is a shoe-in but he showed flashes of something good in several games. Enough to warrant a shot next year.

Randy · « **Reply #172 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 05:31 pm »

I thought Denver's defense might keep the game closer. Guess not. Brady cut them to ribbons.

bunky · « **Reply #173 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: thunderbrick on 15 Jan 2012, 05:08 pm

Ditto on Tebowmania, but what's worse is the flagrant piling on because the guy's not the second coming of the immortal Johnny Unitas, whom I had the pleasure of meeting some 40 years ago. I got to kiss his ring.

Johnny U which he was know as in Baltimore used to sit in bars in South B'more and drink beers with regular blue collar guys. he was a really nice salt of the earth kind of guy

cujobob · « **Reply #174 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 05:49 pm »

Teams start slow. Look at the Eagles. We don't know that the change in qb was the catalyst. Could be coincidental.

Johnsons contract might be ridiculous I know... And because of the ridiculous rookie contracts from years past, the lions are going to have a tough situation.

Old timer · « **Reply #175 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 06:11 pm »

Just as a disclaimer, I do not watch professional football anymore. The "game" lost its appeal at this level a couple of years ago.

However, isn't this Tebow a 2nd year rookie, a relative beginner? And he has this much talent already?

It seems to me that you get more shit for praying on the field than you do for breeding dogs for fighting to the death. What a world we live in, huh?

soundbitten1 · « **Reply #176 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 15 Jan 2012, 05:29 pm

Questionable success? You could say the same about any young unestablished quarterback. I don't know what you mean about "right QB at the right time" comment.

I was referring to his style of play. What other young established QB plays like Tebow in the NFL? Cam Newton possibly. But obviously Denver wasn't going anywhere with a conventional quarterback this year, Tebow came in and they started winning, hence "right QB at the right time".

jackman · « **Reply #177 on:** 15 Jan 2012, 06:19 pm »

Quote from: cujobob on 15 Jan 2012, 05:49 pm

Teams start slow. Look at the Eagles. We don't know that the change in qb was the catalyst. Could be coincidental.

Johnsons contract might be ridiculous I know... And because of the ridiculous rookie contracts from years past, the lions are going to have a tough situation.

I wonder if you would have the same opinion if Denver lost all of those games they won with Tebow. Would you just say the losses were a coincidence? I suspect you wouldn't. Just a hunch.

cujobob · « **Reply #178 on:** 16 Jan 2012, 05:44 am »

Actually, yes, I expect some bumps in the road for inexperienced quarterbacks. Tebow is actually older than the QB on my own team, but even he, I would say, has been way too good for his age. I'm not knocking Tebow because he was successful that makes no sense. I feel he is very overrated and people are just searching for someone to root for. We all want to root for someone, I just disagree with those who give him more credit than he deserves. Tebowmania has overshadowed the great play of his teammates.

What other QBs in the NFL play like Tebow? Not many. He's a fullback that can throw, but not very well. Newton has an arm. Vick has an arm. Hell, Jemarcus Russell had an arm. Tebow has some elusiveness/speed and is a bigger guy, they tempt you with ability but it never works out the way you'd like in the end.

jackman · « **Reply #179 on:** 16 Jan 2012, 04:26 pm »

Quote from: cujobob on 16 Jan 2012, 05:44 am

Actually, yes, I expect some bumps in the road for inexperienced quarterbacks. Tebow is actually older than the QB on my own team, but even he, I would say, has been way too good for his age. I'm not knocking Tebow because he was successful that makes no sense. I feel he is very overrated and people are just searching for someone to root for. We all want to root for someone, I just disagree with those who give him more credit than he deserves. Tebowmania has overshadowed the great play of his teammates.

What other QBs in the NFL play like Tebow? Not many. He's a fullback that can throw, but not very well. Newton has an arm. Vick has an arm. Hell, Jemarcus Russell had an arm. Tebow has some elusiveness/speed and is a bigger guy, they tempt you with ability but it never works out the way you'd like in the end.

Age and experience are two different things. Your QB is good but I believe he has more pro experience. Plus, he is a traditional passer who gets to throw the ball to the best target in the game, often in a dome. That's pretty nice.

Tebow is older but lacks pro game experience or even a proper training camp as a starter. I just don't understand why people are so quick to conclude that he will NEVER play in a pro offense when he has shown some really impressive flashes. He has different skills than anyone in the league. He is the best power runner I have ever seen at the position and has good speed. He has poor throwing accuracy and needs an offense tailored around his strenghs and weaknesses. Also, Tebow mania was not orchestrated by Tebow, it is a media creation he had nothing to do with. It's not fair to pin that on him.

Please note, I don't know if it will work! A run oriented offense is great if you don't give up early points. Once you are down a couple scores (especially late in the game) and the defense knows you are throwing the ball, you need a QB who can throw into nickle defense or complex zones. That's when Tebow's weaknesses really come to the forefront. If he can't improve his accuracy, I agree he will not be a viable starter in this league. He's a hard worker and a proven winner in college and at times in the pro's (although not consistently in the pro's). If he learns how to read defenses better and deliver the ball with improved accuracy, he could be a special player.

If he can't make it at QB, maybe he can be a modern day Mike Alstott and play fullback. Tebow throws better than most fullbacks and would give a team some cool options out of the backfield!