[mlundy57]

Hey Mike,
I know you've discussed it somewhere in the past but what is the performance difference between real H frame and these wedgie style closed front stands? Do those attributes also apply to the 8in version as well or does the smaller driver handle that shape differently?

The H-frames have a somewhat more open and spacious sound, as would be expected being full open baffle, and possibly a little more output. The differences are enough for me to choose the H-frame over the wedge shape when paring with the NX-Otica MTM. When paring with the smaller Wedgie, I prefer the the wedge shape. The performance improvement of the H-frame isn't enough to offset the better aesthetic match with the Wedgie.

The same holds true with the 8" drivers. The performance is better in an H-frame compared to either a wedge or rectangular shape for the stand. Again, the wedge shaped base is a better  aesthetic match for the Wedgie and the performance gain isn't enough to offset this.

The rectangular design of the Best Speaker Stands Ever (BSSE) is the best choice for use with a box speaker. In the BSSE, 12" drivers will have a performance advantage over 8" drivers but will result in a chunkier stand so back to the aesthetic vs performance tradeoff.

[Jdstrong]

Thanks for the suggestions! I’m very interested to learn that a U shaped baffle might be an option for a OB sub. That seems like it could be a compact package under an NX Studio.  A photo of the room is below. With the huge tv between the speakers, far from ideal, I recognize, and for now, no options for any treatments have been sanctioned….I can get the front baffle of the main speakers almost 3 ft. From the front wall, but that is about it.  The listening area is about 12’ x 13’. 

So, I welcome any suggestions from the group.  Aesthetically, I’m aiming for a simple, uncluttered design. If I were to incorporate subs into the fronts, I could eliminate the large ported sub.  If not, I might replace it in the future with a sealed servo sub. I’m also thinking if ditching the center (there is not much space under the TV).

Are NX Studios a bad idea for this room?
Might I be better off with X-SLS? (I think the smaller size would be preferred to X-MTM)
Sealed subs for stands?
 Or U shaped OB type as suggested by Mike?

Any other suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[jmimac351]

Are NX Studios a bad idea for this room?

I bet a pair of NX-Studio would be great for that room.  With those sub stands I linked to, I bet you'd be thrilled with the performance. That room is exactly what that stuff is built for.

[Jdstrong]

Thanks!  I’m encouraged.  I will get going on some design concepts. I may see if I can come up with a plan to build out something incrementally, starting with the NX Studios, and incorporating subs as time and budget allows.

[mlundy57]

If you build sub stands and are going to be watching movies as well as listening to music, you may not want to get rid of the large ported sub. You could set the system up the way I do: if your processor has bass management, the main speakers are set to full range and the large sub is connected to the LFE (sub out) channel. This way, all the infrasonic low frequency effects are kept away from the main speakers/sub stands and sent to the subwoffer that is designed to handle them. Also, the larger sub does not play when listening to music. It only kicks in when there is a signal on the LFE channel which only occurs in movies.

[Jdstrong]

That’s a good point. That sub does indeed do well with the movie boom booms. It is intended to be a downfiring sub disguised as an end table…….I got it this far and stalled….

[Jdstrong]

Mike,

In your wedge shaped sub stands, I see you have offset the drivers high and low on each side, it appears without much overlap vertically. What is the rough depth of one of these drivers? If I were to make a U shaped stand 8.5" wide to match the NX Studios, could there be some overlap so that the stand could be a bit shorter? Also, to match the NX Studio, the depth of the U would be about 16". Is that a  reasonable dimension for a U shaped frame like this? And finally, I suppose the sub amp needs to be external - but nearby, correct?

Is it clear that "OB" subs in a configuration like this would be better than a sealed sub for this application? And, do you think I could do with one dual sub? Or are two really necessary?

Thanks so much!

[mlundy57]

Mike,

In your wedge shaped sub stands, I see you have offset the drivers high and low on each side, it appears without much overlap vertically. What is the rough depth of one of these drivers? If I were to make a U shaped stand 8.5" wide to match the NX Studios, could there be some overlap so that the stand could be a bit shorter? Also, to match the NX Studio, the depth of the U would be about 16". Is that a  reasonable dimension for a U shaped frame like this? And finally, I suppose the sub amp needs to be external - but nearby, correct?

Is it clear that "OB" subs in a configuration like this would be better than a sealed sub for this application? And, do you think I could do with one dual sub? Or are two really necessary?

Thanks so much!

The mounting depth is roughly 6.5". The drivers are offset because that was the only way to fit them in a box this size. As it is, the back of the magnets is touching the NoRez. On these the front is 6" wide and the back 12". Even with an 8.5" front you would still want the back to be at least 12" wide for the drivers to fit. These cabinets are about 19" deep. With a wider front, you might be able to get away with a depth of 16". You'd have to mock it up to see if there is enough room to mount the drivers.

These stands were designed to put the center of the Wedgie's tweeter, which is 10" up from the bottom, at ear height. I'm not sure there is enough room to overlap the 12" drivers enough to get the center of the Studio Monitor tweeter at ear height. Things are pretty tight inside the cabinets as it is.

Yes, the sub amps are external and sit on the floor behind the cabinet.

This design is likely performing more like a slotted port than a true open baffle.

On the issue of this type of stand vs a sealed sub, my opinion is different than most people on this forum. I would put the Studio Monitors on regular speaker stands placed where the give the best performance at the listening position and use a sealed servo sub placed where you get the best bass performance at the listening position. In my room, this is directly behind the couch, almost touching it. The best position for the speakers is not always the best position for bass performance. Even full range speakers can often benefit from a second, strategically placed,  sub.

[Jdstrong]

Thanks Mike,

This is helpful information and thought provoking feedback. I will mull this over....

Cheers

[jmimac351]

I've heard Danny's NX-Treme with OB subs and thought it was exceptional.  Right after hearing them, he designed a new crossover for my box speaker... and I can't wait to get it.  I have several box, 2-way speakers, and dual sealed subs.  The only Open Baffle speaker I have is an NX-MTM project, that I will use with my sealed subs.  I will continue playing with speakers and having fun. 

My point is... I really like what I'm hearing, and I'm having fun with it.  I think it would be a mistake for anyone to think "the only way" to have great sound is a particular recipe, OB or not. Matter of fact, some people actually prefer the sound of a box sub because of the way it loads the room. 

Since I'm a sucker for 2 way speakers, I would think I'll own a pair of NX-Studio someday.  I would blend them with my current, dual sealed subs. And, I think it would be cool to hear that OB speaker stand too... 

[Jdstrong]

So,  after further consultation with my better half, I really need to pursue a sleek simple floor standing design. So I think incorporating subwoofers beneath NX Studios is not really in the cards, even if it were feasible.

So my question is - would there be any downsides to building a floor standing version of an NX Studio?

- I assume I would need to keep the volume of the woofer enclosure to be same as the monitor design? or would there be any benefit to a larger woofer enclosure?

- I might want to decrease the depth of the speaker a little (a few inches) to create a smaller footprint. I recognize this would make the slope of the angled top a bit steeper - would this matter much? This would mean the woofer enclosure would be taller of course.

- The bottom of the speaker would essentially be an empty box - I expect I could put ballast in the very bottom, and would need to fully brace it throughout.

- Is this a bad idea? I'd welcome any feedback on these ideas or on what I'm missing.

Having said all that, I see in another thread that GR is working on some sort of OB bass module with 8 inch drivers. Not sure if it might work with an NX Studio top? If that could work without being very far from the front wall, that could well be another way to go.....

Thanks in advance!

[Hobbsmeerkat]

So long as the airspace doesn't change there's no issue with building a Floor-standing version.

- A bigger airspace would make the bass sound "floppy" and uncontrolled as it needs the airspace as part of the woofer's suspension.

- You can increase the depth so long as you make the chamber taller to compensate.

- Correct, you can fill some of the empty space it with sand, kitty litter, etc.

We haven't had the opportunity to pick that project back up to work on a 3-way version.

[mlundy57]

Here are some pics of a couple of the Best Speaker Stand Ever (BSSE) with X-CS Encores and a Studio Monitor












This combination will get solid performance down to 30Hz and the monitors have to be on a stand of some kind anyway. As Hobbs said, these drivers are in stock even though they don't show up on the website. 

[bhassel]

I have to ask, where are the 'BSSE' from? Do they require more space from the wall?

Thanks,

Bob

[mlundy57]

I have to ask, where are the 'BSSE' from? Do they require more space from the wall?

Thanks,

Bob

They are one of Danny's designs. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129161.0

They can be placed close to the wall. This would be a killer combo, especially if the choice of the Studio Monitor is for it's ability to be placed closer to the wall which is lost if the monitors are on top of open baffle H-Frames.

[Jdstrong]

I am re-intrigued. This might well be a great solution for me.

I think I will take another run at a design and see if I can get it approved....I will need a representative rendering - I'll look at SketchUp and see if that might do it.

I might look at incorporating a solid wood baffle top to bottom. It might have to be a custom - not sure where I would source it or have the waveguide cut?

On thing puzzles me though, for the NX Studio builds that use a solid wood baffle and MDF box, what about expansion/contraction of the solid wood?

Cheers

[nlitworld]

It'd be cool to see a one piece design of nx-studio top and BSSE in bottom of a single box assembly. Would be pretty easy to handle given the size of the monitors and have Jay/Killian come out with a cnc flatpack of the full tower setup. It'd also help keep the speaker from mounting too tall as it would on a double trouble kit. Would it be a problem for the sub base section being a larger air volume fitting as wide & deep as a Studio? If it were possible, it could be called the Super Studio. It'd also be a lot cleaner setup for a small room than a pair of subs and studios.

[Tyson]

Are those 8 inch woofers available again?

[mlundy57]

Are those 8 inch woofers available again?

Yes. I just got 4. 

[jmimac351]

Are those 8 inch woofers available again?

Hobbs mentioned elsewhere recently that they have stock of the 8" subs, and they are working with Rhythmik on an HX310 amp for OB use with the 8" subs.  I wonder if the stand isn't talked about more because the sub amp for them needs to get squared away.  This sub stand is a great idea. I would want to get it modular so I could play with different 2 way speakers I have.

See here for recent commentary:  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=188945.0