[vlad335]

Also, Would foil inductors have any benefit?

Thanks again!

[Danny Richie]

Also, Would foil inductors have any benefit?

Thanks again!

The difference in going to a foil inductor is very minimal and not an added expense that I'd go to for this speaker.

Hello,

Could you do me a great favor? I am away from my B2031p's and would like to order these crossover parts. Could you share the values needed for the Sonicaps and mills resistors? I got the Erse XQ Inductor. Obviously 2.0) Very much appreciate it. Thanks!

There are two caps used. They are a 4.3uF and a 10uF. The inductor is a 2.0mH and there is a single 12 ohm resistor used.

I obviously do stock all of that stuff in various price ranges. A link resistor is 60 cents. The Mills resistor is $4.90. I only have the 4.3uF value in a Sonicap. It is the tweeter cap and it is $10.60. the 10uF for the woofer I have in Erse for $3.64 and a Sonicap for $17.60. The 16 gauge Erse XQ inductor is $17.61.

[Danny Richie]

Looks like the any sayers from the peanut gallery at AVS finally found the results of Bob's listening season. 

Now they think that I completely redesigned the crossover and conveniently discarded all the measurements so no one would know that they were really different. 

I didn't save the impedance curves (I mentioned that already) since they were exactly the same. And how could they be anything but the same from an electrically point of view? They are the same crossover replicated with parts of the same value. Pictures were also posted. 

I did save the more telling measurements though. I saved the measured frequency responses. Here are the measured responses of both speakers with both networks.




Differences between the two are only from minor tolerance differences in the networks. This is better than typical too. I tested the exact values of the stock crossover and matched them. My two crossovers were then matched to one another. The two stock crossovers might have a little higher tolerance between the two. For instance, the resistor in one of the stock crossovers my be a few tenths of an ohm different from one speaker to the other so there is a fractional difference in one speaker in the top end. Differences below 400Hz or so are standard deviations from one measurement to the next. I get this much difference taking two measurements back to back of the same crossover. Remember this is zoomed in at a 5db scale between each line.

So, the crossover design is the same, values are the same, measurements are the same, but the sound is very different.

I am also trying to line someone up on the West coast that can take some measurements and confirm mine.

[Danny Richie]

Oh yeah,

Who on the West coast wants to be next?

[vlad335]

Looks like the any sayers from the peanut gallery at AVS finally found the results of Bob's listening season. 

Now they think that I completely redesigned the crossover and conveniently discarded all the measurements so no one would know that they were really different. 

If you are referring to me as to the motivation of the above posts you are way off. I have a membership over there but haven't posted in years. Don't have a dog in this hunt but I did recently purchase 2 pairs of B2031P's.



Here are the speakers that the Behringer's replaced.



Disregard the RS90's on top... surround rears. Just placed on top for the pic. Bought the Behringers originally for computer desktop speakers and just for the helluvit, hooked them up to the living room system.  I played the Dire Straits Brother's in Arms SACD, Michael McDonald's concert Bluray, and various BD movies and that was that! They were staying in my main system. Found them to be more efficient, incredibly dynamic, and much to my disbelief, more pleasing musically. Granted the Monitor Audio's are certainly more refined in their presentation and I suspect flatter in FR, it sounds contrived. My wife summed it up best by saying the MA's sound compressed.

I am not one of the Flat Earther's as you call them but I have recapped several speakers and know there is a difference. To me there is more space between the instruments and "air" in the highs. I run fairly high-power and have found the most easily noted differentiating factor IMO with higher quality parts is when the throttle is opened. The threshold for smearing and the sound becoming one dimensional is far lower. On the other hand, I am not about to buy moon crystals to place on my speakers either. I have to get the best bang for the buck and these units provide that in spades.

Interested in seeing if I can improve these speakers even more and that is all. (Have some more mods planned for the cabinets as well as working on the placement.) Will call tomorrow about ordering the crossover parts. Probably will not be able to get all the parts at once since I want to do three speakers and cash is tight right now. 

Hey, come to think of it. I have another completely stock Behringer still in the box that I could easily compare with a modded version.

Hmmm... More to come.

[django11]

Interesting.  The plot thickens...

[Danny Richie]

If you are referring to me as to the motivation of the above posts you are way off.

Nope. It wasn't you.

Be sure to follow the mods I did to these speakers in that first thread about them. There is one mod in there that you can do for free (basically) in putting a radius on the back side of the woofer hole. Adding No Rez or making yourself a cheaper DIY alternative also went a long way.

[johnzm]

If you are referring to me as to the motivation of the above posts you are way off. I have a membership over there but haven't posted in years. Don't have a dog in this hunt but I did recently purchase 2 pairs of B2031P's.



Here are the speakers that the Behringer's replaced.



Disregard the RS90's on top... surround rears. Just placed on top for the pic. Bought the Behringers originally for computer desktop speakers and just for the helluvit, hooked them up to the living room system.  I played the Dire Straits Brother's in Arms SACD, Michael McDonald's concert Bluray, and various BD movies and that was that! They were staying in my main system. Found them to be more efficient, incredibly dynamic, and much to my disbelief, more pleasing musically. Granted the Monitor Audio's are certainly more refined in their presentation and I suspect flatter in FR, it sounds contrived. My wife summed it up best by saying the MA's sound compressed.

I am not one of the Flat Earther's as you call them but I have recapped several speakers and know there is a difference. To me there is more space between the instruments and "air" in the highs. I run fairly high-power and have found the most easily noted differentiating factor IMO with higher quality parts is when the throttle is opened. The threshold for smearing and the sound becoming one dimensional is far lower. On the other hand, I am not about to buy moon crystals to place on my speakers either. I have to get the best bang for the buck and these units provide that in spades.

Interested in seeing if I can improve these speakers even more and that is all. (Have some more mods planned for the cabinets as well as working on the placement.) Will call tomorrow about ordering the crossover parts. Probably will not be able to get all the parts at once since I want to do three speakers and cash is tight right now. 

Hey, come to think of it. I have another completely stock Behringer still in the box that I could easily compare with a modded version.

Hmmm... More to come.

are those woofers "Enabl'd" ?? and if so what kinda difference did it make?

[vlad335]

Good eye!

Just did this the other night. Just the outer rings as this is incredibly time consuming for me. Also cut R13 wool strips and slid them into the ports. ( The speaker on the left, the wool fell back into the port.  ) Anyway, the EnaBL treatment IMO doesn't do much to change the frequency response per se, it helps resolve detail especially in complex multi instrument music. Also the speaker tends to disappear slightly in directionality if that makes sense.

I love Steely Dan's Two Against Nature DVD played via DTS and used this as a comparison. Nice! Many electric instruments going at times and the treatment tended to improve the coherency of these passages in detail.

[corndog71]

Are those Monitor Audio's the Silver RS-6?  My buddy has those and I thought they sounded fantastic.  Then again he was driving them with a tube amp.  Still, I was extremely impressed by them and would own a pair in a heartbeat.  I don't recall them sounding compressed at all.  Perhaps too much power wasn't so good for them.

[dBe]

If you are referring to me as to the motivation of the above posts you are way off. I have a membership over there but haven't posted in years. Don't have a dog in this hunt but I did recently purchase 2 pairs of B2031P's.

The people that Danny and I were both referencing in our posts above are people that really don't post here, but seem to dog us both on the 'net.  It's just life.

If you aren't leery of it, You can help those Behringers out a bunch by adding cabinet bracing on the outside of the cabinets.  I use Baltic Birch when I do this.  It is very stiff and takes stain, paint or veneer very well.  Much easier to do this way and maintains the cabinet volume that you will need for other things.

Have fun!

Dave

[vlad335]

Nope. It wasn't you.

Be sure to follow the mods I did to these speakers in that first thread about them. There is one mod in there that you can do for free (basically) in putting a radius on the back side of the woofer hole. Adding No Rez or making yourself a cheaper DIY alternative also went a long way.

Sorry bout that. Misunderstood your post.

Def plan to do the cabinets as well. Woofer hole, vinyl tile and open cell foam. May even cut the front baffles off, fill the ports, and make my own cabinets. Have to figure out the port area and my math isnt very good.

[vlad335]

Are those Monitor Audio's the Silver RS-6? 

Yes.

The Behringers are better.

Believe me, I had a hard time wrapping my head around this myself. Paid a good deal of money for the MA's and had no problem with the sound. They are beautiful speakers as well. Never noticed the dynamic range issue personally until compared with the B2031P's. The Behringers are far more dynamic and lively sounding and the waveguides fill the room.

Think about this... I had to remove the glass shelf and cut out and fit MDF to place the Behringer as a center channel. Trust me, I would never have expended this effort for nothing. Plus the wife loves the way the Monitor Audio's look but even she agreed that the Behringers were an upgrade.

[dBe]

Sorry bout that. Misunderstood your post.

Def plan to do the cabinets as well. Woofer hole, vinyl tile and open cell foam. May even cut the front baffles off, fill the ports, and make my own cabinets. Have to figure out the port area and my math isnt very good.

I'm sure that reinforced or new cabinets would make a huge difference.  I find that congestion in the bass and lower midrange is very often a function of cabinet problems both from flexing (panel resonance) and internal reflections.  Kill those two problems and you are most of the way home. 

To build proper cabinets you really need to measure T/S parameters.  If you aren't set up to do so, Danny or I will both do that for no charge other than shipping.  If you get serious about the new cabs, just drop us a PM and one of us will get you hooked up. 

I'm very interested in the EnaBL process.  I have a pair of the new Dayton PointSource 8" FR drivers that sound very good out of the box and would like to try that.  Any hints you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  I read about the process a while back but I've slept since then.

Dave

[Danny Richie]

I'm very interested in the EnaBL process. 

Dave, I tested some of my woofers with that stuff on them and posted everything about it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59575.0

[dBe]

Dave, I tested some of my woofers with that stuff on them and posted everything about it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=59575.0

Crap!  I forgot about that.  I guess they will be close enough.

Never mind 

Doh!

Dave

[Danny Richie]

Once again, who else on the West coast would like to demo these?

[laserman]

Hey Danny,

If you ever decide to tour these, please let us Eastern folks know.  I could round up 4-5 folks to give them a workout.   

Later,
Lou

[Danny Richie]

Hey Danny,

If you ever decide to tour these, please let us Eastern folks know.  I could round up 4-5 folks to give them a workout.   

Later,
Lou

If I don't get someone stepping up to the plate soon then I may have to have them sent to the East coast. Come on guys on the West coast. This is your chance.

[HAL]

If they do come to the East Coast, maybe I can go to a GTG and listen?