[Guy 13]

Guy, one of the main reasons for not doing it "your" way is that you have purchased a kit from a professional designer with 10's of thousands of hours of experience.  Also, the V2 kit is the result of perhaps hundreds of hours of his work, using that experience, with state of the art measuring equipment.  If you take his design, change the dimensions, move the drivers, or alter the crossover without that experience or measuring ability, you end up with an amateur diy speaker that has little to do with the sound of the original design or designer. 
My advice to any amateur that wants to design their own speakers, it to start with a great kit.  Build it and treat your room.  That gives you a reference point against which you can measure your own creations.   If you are seriously going to build, then purchase a quality measuring system including a properly calibrated microphone, and a hundred of so resistors, capacitors, and inductors. 
Although designing speakers is not exactly rocket science anymore, it still is involved and more difficult than the average beginner recognizes.  For example, by changing the baffle dimensions, you change the point at which woofers begin to diffract, which in turn affects how the crossover is built to controlling the interaction with the mids.  There are good simulation programs out there to predict these effects, or you can see if for yourself with a measuring system.  With simulation or measurement, you can make your changes in ways that allow you to predict or measure the outcomes- which doesn't always lead to success, but definitely improves your chance. 
You have an excellent set of kits with the V2 and the servo sub.  My recommendation is to scrap the mis-measured cabinets, and build according to the designers plans.
Sorry Guy, I have no doubt that this is not what you want to hear, but I have absolutely no doubt that it would result in the best sound that you can get out of those kits rather than randomly trying improve on the original design.  And lose the egg crate foam.  Best of luck with your project.
Scott

Hi Scott.
After reading your long and detailled thread, it reminds me when I was 10 years old and my father sermon me ! Don't do this ! Don't do that ! If I slap you it's for your own good... (Ha, ha...)
Well 52 years later, here we go again ! For more than 40 years I have been interested in audio equipment and I did learn something during all that time. Now, what you wrote above is correct, it's only the way you write it, like I am still a 10 years old knowing nothing...
That's O.K. on Audio Circle, everybody can give his opinion and and most of the time, the opinions of some are combined with good advices.
Thanks for your advice Scott, but please, next time, write your text differently...
I don't think I ever complain about what I built, it's just that the result are not what I am expecting, but that's O.K. I will try again with the help of Danny and others.
Now, since everybody is ready to help me with their expertise how about giving me your opinion on the following drivers. Of course they will be in an Open Baffle configuration.
Waiting for your comments.
Have a nice day. 
Guy 13 (Always ready for a good laugh !)

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w8-1808.htm

http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1230_04/w8-1772.htm

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-500s.pdf

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-525s.pdf

[jtwrace]

Guy

Do you change Danny's designs because you don't like the way they look or just to be different?

I think what Scott is getting at is this.  Why not build the kit that you purchase from Danny as he designed it to be built.  After you listen to it then you can build a different enclosure and such and take the components out of the Danny version and try them in the Guy 13 version.  Doing this will ensure that you actually hear the GR design that you paid a lot of money for.  Danny isn't just selecting components willy nilly.  These are carefully selected parts based on many years of professional experience. 

We all have ideas that we want to try.  There is nothing wrong with this at all.  We are free to do what we want.  I can also say that it's in our best interest to build a kit as the designer intended.  Why?  Simple IMO.  If I'm able to just change the design drastically, then I shouldn't be buying a kit from him because I'm as good.  The fact of the matter is that I'm not.   

[Guy 13]

Guy

Do you change Danny's designs because you don't like the way they look or just to be different?

I think what Scott is getting at is this.  Why not build the kit that you purchase from Danny as he designed it to be built.  After you listen to it then you can build a different enclosure and such and take the components out of the Danny version and try them in the Guy 13 version.  Doing this will ensure that you actually hear the GR design that you paid a lot of money for.  Danny isn't just selecting components willy nilly.  These are carefully selected parts based on many years of professional experience. 

We all have ideas that we want to try.  There is nothing wrong with this at all.  We are free to do what we want.  I can also say that it's in our best interest to build a kit as the designer intended.  Why?  Simple IMO.  If I'm able to just change the design drastically, then I shouldn't be buying a kit from him because I'm as good.  The fact of the matter is that I'm not.   

Hi.
I am now making some modifications on my V-1 to be as close as possible to Danny's design, I will post some pictures and comments in a week or two.
Making the V-2 to match Danny's original design would be too labor intensive, I am keeping the first black pair of V-2 unchanged and the second pair of V-2 (Ferrari red) will be use to experiment with different drivers for the mid/hi frequencies.
In the future I will keep the results of my experimentations to myself as it raise too many comments.
If you think I should buy Danny's kits and build them without any modifications at first, then make the changes later on, well I am doing that now with the V-1 kit, for the V-2 will be used to do all kind of crazy experimentations and since it seems to bother a lot of AC members what I am doing, I will keep the results to myself, if any AC member want to know, they can always send me a PM.
Lots of members want to help me and I appreciate that, however, I am having lots of fun modifying my stuff, do the AC members want to spoil the only hobby I have in this boring country (Vietnam) ?
No I am not upset, yes I am in a good mood.
Guy 13.

[jtwrace]

Hi.
I am now making some modifications on my V-1 to be as close as possible to Danny's design, I will post some pictures and comments in a week or two.
Making the V-2 to match Danny's original design would be too labor intensive, I am keeping the first black pair of V-2 unchanged and the second pair of V-2 (Ferrari red) will be use to experiment with different drivers for the mid/hi frequencies.
In the future I will keep the results of my experimentations to myself as it raise too many comments.
If you think I should buy Danny's kits and build them without any modifications at first, then make the changes later on, well I am doing that now with the V-1 kit, for the V-2 will be used to do all kind of crazy experimentations and since it seems to bother a lot of AC members what I am doing, I will keep the results to myself, if any AC member want to know, they can always send me a PM.
Lots of members want to help me and I appreciate that, however, I am having lots of fun modifying my stuff, do the AC members want to spoil the only hobby I have in this boring country (Vietnam) ?
No I am not upset, yes I am in a good mood.
Guy 13.

I'm sorry that you feel this way.  We're just offering an opinion....which you'll get on a public forum.  Have fun!!!   

[Guy 13]

I like you very well. I didn't share my findings with you to criticize, but to help you. Don't take it personal.

Your surface reflections are not from the back side of the driver that will be an issue. It is the surface reflections on the front side. A smaller baffle will improve imaging. That's a given.

As for full range drivers and corrective circuits... Most do need something. The only exception that I know of is the FR125's from CSS. With those drivers the XBL^ motor design adds so much output gain to the lower region that it tends to mirror image the baffle step loss.

I used 8 parts in the circuit to compensate for the response problems in the Super 12 model. I also shared it with the owner of the company David Dicks. I don't think he felt it needed any of that. He liked it the way it was. I couldn't listen to it the way it was. It was burning a hole in my head with the top end that hot. We don't have to agree and I am still on great terms with David. I have helped him with various designs and he has helped me too. He was the one that insisted I try the P-Audiio driver that I used in the Super-V. He was right. It really was excellent. But I liked it much better with a more aggressive network. He liked it with the woofer playing wide open and just a cap on the tweeter. His way made an extremely rough response and hot top end. But that is the way he liked it.

One of the great things about this hobby is that you can do it your way.

It's all good.

Hi Danny.
Just want to let you know that I still have in mind for 2011 to buy the N-3 and OB-7 kits, will I build them as per your design or will I modifiy them as soon as I get them ? ? ?
Only time will tell...
Do you only sell kits to AC members that build your kits as per your design or do you sell kits to any crazy guy like me ?
Crazy guy like me don't buy one kit like many AC members, but buy two, three, four, five or more kits, do you still want my business ? Yes, then let me do my crazy modifications... I will never blame you for the poor performances of your kits that I have modified...
Have a nice week end.
Guy 13.

[Danny Richie]

First of all, I have heard good things about those TB drivers, but have not tried them yet myself. The only thing about them that worries me is the little resonances that are showing up in the impedance curves.

I have a guy building the lower section of a V-1 for his TB drivers, and maybe he'll post something about it when he's done.

About the kit building.... I don't mind you doing all kinds of mods or crazy things with the kits. I don't think it bothers any of these good regulars here either. That's really what kit building is all about. And it is about having fun.

These guys are right too though. I designed these a certain way for a reason, and for me it is all centered around maximum performance. There are a lot of esthetic things you can do with no ill effect, but major alterations will have negative consequences. Don't take it personal if someone points out something that will take the performance in another direction.

We just want to see you get the most for your money, and great results makes for great return customers.

I have even offered help to you with products that I don't even sell. If the free advice works out for you, it made your speakers better, you learned a thing or two, and had fun doing it...

Please don't be offended by anyone else's opinion or advice. Trust me, this is a place of great support. And feel free to post anything you like.

[jtwrace]

And it is about having fun.

And feel free to post anything you like.

+1   

[S Clark]

Hi Scott.
After reading your long and detailled thread, it reminds me when I was 10 years old and my father sermon me ! Don't do this ! Don't do that ! If I slap you it's for your own good... (Ha, ha...)
Well 52 years later, here we go again ! For more than 40 years I have been interested in audio equipment and I did learn something during all that time. Now, what you wrote above is correct, it's only the way you write it, like I am still a 10 years old knowing nothing...


Sorry about the lecture  .  It's what I did for 30+ years in the classroom.  My point was simply that it would be hard to improve on Danny's design, and that experimentation would be best done after building out the kit.  However, sometimes you just need to change things up and be creative.  We all have to adapt things to what works best for us, and it's all about enjoyment.  Hope your experiments give you great sound. 
Scott

[persisting1]

Just want to let you know that I still have in mind for 2011 to buy the N-3 and OB-7 kits

Guy13, you can be Vietnam's version of Ron.  Start selling complete GR-Research kits.

[Ron]

 Thanks Persisting1 for posting pictures of my recent speaker builds. Presently building a pair of N2X's and N3S to sell if anyone might be interested. I am now at the point that you could choice what performance upgrade options you would like. Just drop me a PM.

[Guy 13]

Thanks Persisting1 for posting pictures of my recent speaker builds. Presently building a pair of N2X's and N3S to sell if anyone might be interested. I am now at the point that you could choice what performance upgrade options you would like. Just drop me a PM.

Hi Ron.
I must say that your enclosures are as well builted as any speaker manufacturers. Nice work, really nice work. With quality built enclosures like yours, you won't have any problem selling them, especially that you have no overhead fee, therefore, you will be very competitive. If I was not so far, I would ask you to build a pair of N3 for me.
Guy 13.

[Guy 13]

Guy13, you can be Vietnam's version of Ron.  Start selling complete GR-Research kits.

Hi Persisting 1.
I never thought of selling Danny's GR Research kits in Vietnam, but now that you mention it, it might be something to consider, minds you, I know as a fact that Vietnamese don't like to build kits since Vietnamese's houses are all very small and 99.99% of the Vietnamese house don't have any garage (They ride motorbikes, which are stored in the living room, believe it or not, I do the same.) or basement. (No basement in Vietnam, because of frequent flooding.)
If Ron's enclosures are really low in price compare to big wood shop, it might be worth asking him a price to later on import his enclosures in Vietnam, but it would not be easy to sell here, since the Vietnamese work for a few dollars a day.
Thanks for sharing.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

Guy

Do you change Danny's designs because you don't like the way they look or just to be different?

I think what Scott is getting at is this.  Why not build the kit that you purchase from Danny as he designed it to be built.  After you listen to it then you can build a different enclosure and such and take the components out of the Danny version and try them in the Guy 13 version.  Doing this will ensure that you actually hear the GR design that you paid a lot of money for.  Danny isn't just selecting components willy nilly.  These are carefully selected parts based on many years of professional experience. 

We all have ideas that we want to try.  There is nothing wrong with this at all.  We are free to do what we want.  I can also say that it's in our best interest to build a kit as the designer intended.  Why?  Simple IMO.  If I'm able to just change the design drastically, then I shouldn't be buying a kit from him because I'm as good.  The fact of the matter is that I'm not.   

Hi JT.
If I change Danny's design, it's because I like to experiment with only some little logic behind what I do, sounds crazy, but this is my way to have fun and believe me I am having a ball with some small frustrations that comes free with it, but each one as his own way of having fun. My behavior is bizarre, well that's because I like to be different and do things differently and I don't complain about the results, all the results surprise me each time. This is also my way to forget about this boring country, boring for me anyway.
I am not looking for the best or the ultimate sound reproduction with Danny's kits I build, I am only looking at having fun with his kits, is there anything wrong with that ? I am crazy, weird and bizarre, yes I know !
Am I the only one acting bizarrely ? Well, if I am the only one, that's O.K. with me. I feel comfortable with that.
By the way, right now, I am modifying my V-1 to be 99% the same as Danny's original design and/or to follow Danny's recommendations. As usual, I will post some pictures when the modifications are completed and post my comments.
Minds you, I still have the problem of my living room being huge, way too big and a ceiling being way too high (9 feet +), however, I did some wall treaments and now, the acoustic is a little better. Anyway, next year my wife and I will be building a new house and with my wife's approval (She manage the money) I will have my own dedicated listening room. WOW ! Therefore, if anyone have some recommendations, now is the time to share them with me. I will also post a picture of a set up I got from an audio magazine.
Have a nice day.
Guy 13 or Guy the weirdo !

[Guy 13]

First of all, I have heard good things about those TB drivers, but have not tried them yet myself. The only thing about them that worries me is the little resonances that are showing up in the impedance curves.

I have a guy building the lower section of a V-1 for his TB drivers, and maybe he'll post something about it when he's done.

About the kit building.... I don't mind you doing all kinds of mods or crazy things with the kits. I don't think it bothers any of these good regulars here either. That's really what kit building is all about. And it is about having fun.

These guys are right too though. I designed these a certain way for a reason, and for me it is all centered around maximum performance. There are a lot of esthetic things you can do with no ill effect, but major alterations will have negative consequences. Don't take it personal if someone points out something that will take the performance in another direction.

We just want to see you get the most for your money, and great results makes for great return customers.

I have even offered help to you with products that I don't even sell. If the free advice works out for you, it made your speakers better, you learned a thing or two, and had fun doing it...

Please don't be offended by anyone else's opinion or advice. Trust me, this is a place of great support. And feel free to post anything you like.

Hi Danny.
I am not ready yet to order the Tang Band full range drivers, I might wait for your post, if it's before early next year.
I am glad that my crazy modifications don't bothers you, because :
YES I am having  lots of fun doing them.
However, I will have the V1 that soon will be like your original design, that will be at least one kit as per your specs. That should make some AC members happy ! (Ha, ha...)
What upset me, and it's my fault if this happened, it's that most of the AC members are looking at the best sound performances with your kits and forget that crazy Guy 13 is looking at having fun. Of course I would like (Sometime) to have good sounding speakers, but that will come with the V1 once modify to the original specs and when it's in my new listening room, but that will happen middle of next year, until then, I will keep having a party with all kinds of modofications.
Your offer to help me to consolidate products that you don't sell with GR Research products that I bought from you, you should know that your offer is highly appreciated and I thank you for offering me, even if yet, I have not taken advantage of your offer, maybe in the futur.
I am accepting your offer to keep posting my opinions on GR Research site.
Thanks and have a nice day.
Guy 13
AKA : Guy the weirdo...

[jtwrace]

Guy

Be sure to post some pics of your latest work when you get it complete.   

[Guy 13]

Guy

Be sure to post some pics of your latest work when you get it complete.   

Hi JT.
I love to post pictures and I wish all AC members would do the same.
Many AC members write about their interesting projects, but post no pictures.
It's like they say:
A picture is worth a thousand words...
Now that I know how to post pictures, I find it super easy to do it and I do it as often as I can.
The only thing that bothers me and what slow me down in posting my pictures is my Vietnamese cabinet maker, he's so slooooooow...
This time for a change, instead of posting the pictures of my speakers, here my wife and me with our four legged hairy and sweet dog.
His name is : TADASHI !
 




Have a nice day.
Guy 13

[Guy 13]

+1   

Hi all.
Here's a few pictures of what I am doing these days at this end of the world.
I am modifying my V1 according to Danny's recommendations.
I have moved the Rythmik amplifier away from the crossover to avoid induction.
Before it was on the top near the PAudio driver, now it's at the bottom.



The crossover is now away from the Rythmik amplifier.



I got made a plastic cover to hide the crossover, I will check if it resonnate.



I have double the sides with an extra 3/4" MDF board, I have lowered the PAudio driver, all the sides are now 1-1/2".
I got made by the cabinet make some grills, however, he will have to add some fasteners, because I am afraid it will vibrate.
I still have to finish the wiring and put a few scews here and there to hold firmly everything together.
I think I am on the right track. For the NoRez, well, it will have to wait to be shipped with my next order.



While the cabinet maker was at it, I also got some grills made for my V2.




...and for my V2 Ferrari red !
I have put temporarely some foam that no AC members  like !




I will finish with a picture of my living room, dining room, entrance hall, warehouse and workshop all under the same roof...




That's all folks...
More pictures in a few days.

Guy 13.

[dvenardos]

Wow, that was fast Guy!
I am looking forward to hearing how you feel the modifications changed the sound of the V1.

[Guy 13]

Wow, that was fast Guy!
I am looking forward to hearing how you feel the modifications changed the sound of the V1.

Hi.
So, you think it was fast !
Well, I think it took forever to get it done and I am not done yet, I have just discovered some (BIG) mistakes that my cabinet maker did and he's 90 minutes away round trip and I need to hire a taxi to carry those monsters boxes to him, therefore, I have decided to fire him and I will do the changes myself. Too bad for him, I had more projects for him...
I will post pictures very soon (Because I love to post pictures...), so you and AC members can follow the progress of this project that is getting unexpectedly more labor intensive...
Guy 13
Note :
My wife was very disapointed that no AC members compliment her on the beauty of her little dog Tadashi. Before taking the picture, she spent one hour washing, grooming and removing the fleas from her little baby dog.
Come on AC members, write something nice to her !
After all, she is the one that financing all my projects.

[Redefy Audio]

hi guy,

impressive. ur tadashi is peking dog? i got golden ret here in manila. talk about fleas 

i know i supposed to say nice things, but why on both pic tadashi seems angry 

cheers
henry