Volume: How much and how do you control it?

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bladesmith

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Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #40 on: 15 Aug 2011, 10:14 pm »
Loud enough to drown out my drunken neighbors terrible stereo system, then them calling the cops complaining of MY excessive noise, then when the cops show up at my next door neighbors place since the loud music was coming from their place because I have since turned off my music, they decided to mouth off to the officer and they get hauled off to jail for drunk and disorderly. I believe that is "Checkmate."  :thumb:

sweet....!

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #41 on: 15 Aug 2011, 10:17 pm »
Those impedance values are usually found in the "specs". Given that they are not adjustable you have to worry about them before the fact rather than after the fact. If you know the impedances of your components you can purchase ICs that have low enough capacitance per foot to stay away from frequency response problems.
 Your decco2 has an output impedance of <30ohms which basically allows you to use almost any cable you want capacitive wise. Your Acurus DIA has a 10k ohm input impedance which will pose no problems when connected to your decco2. It might be a poor match with some tube preamps.
Yes it also applies to the Apple TV.
Nothing will blow up but the top end can be duller than hell if you have a bad mis-match.
Scotty


srb

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #42 on: 15 Aug 2011, 10:33 pm »
neekomax's Apple TV is using its S/PDIF TOSLINK optical output into the Decco DAC section, so impedance would not apply to the optical transmission.
 
If you were using an S/PDIF coaxial output (which the ATV doesn't have), coaxial S/PDIF ouput impedances and coaxial S/PDIF input impedances of DAC inputs are standardized at 75 ohm, so it isn't much of a concern.  You just need to use an appropriate 75 ohm coaxial cable.
 
Steve
« Last Edit: 16 Aug 2011, 01:13 am by srb »

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #43 on: 15 Aug 2011, 10:37 pm »
neekomax's Apple TV is using its S/PDIF TOSLINK optical output into the Decco DAC section, so impedance would not apply to the optical transmission.
 
If you were using an S/PDIF coaxial output (which the ATV doesn't have), coaxial S/PDIF ouput impedances and coaxial S/PDIF input impedances of DAC inputs are standarized at 75 ohm, so it isn't much of a concern.  You just need to use an appropriate 75 ohm coaxial cable.
 
Steve

So I'm good on the impedance front. Phew!  :lol:

konut

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Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #44 on: 15 Aug 2011, 10:47 pm »
Public Service Announcement:  Extended exposure to more than 85 dB will cause permanent hearing loss and possible lifetime pain. 


There are many symphony orchestra conductors that would take issue with that assertion.

Steve

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #45 on: 16 Aug 2011, 12:21 am »
*Scotty*
 
Quote
For the sake of dynamics the source should actually be an order of magnitude lower,around 100 ohms or less.

Hi Scotty,

Gotta disagree with your statement as I run 1.9k output Z on my high gain preamplifiers and dynamics are just as good as direct connection from very low impedance source.
 
 
Quote
This ten to one ratio minimizes the possibility of high frequency roll-off due to interconnect cable
capacitance in combining with the preamp and power amps impedances to create a filter pole inside the audio bandwidth.
 A filter pole is always created when two components are connected together by a cable with capacitance,the trick is to have the 3dB down point well outside the audio band  .......
Scotty

Actually it is the actual total Z value in ohms and capacitance that determine the high frequency pole, not the ratio. If the ratio is 10:1 and the combined output Z is 6k ohms, the high frequencies will start to attentuate much earlier (approximately 1/3 the frequency) than an output Z of 2k ohms (still 10:1 ratio).

Cheers.

Steve

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #46 on: 16 Aug 2011, 12:25 am »
Steve, I think the reason the frequency extension beyond 20kHz sounds better is that you have moved the filter pole created by the roll-off of the high frequencies further away from the audio band.
 When the filter pole is close to the audio band you hear the effects of the phase shift that comes along for the ride and these effects may extend clear down into the mid-range.
Scotty

That is right, changing phase changes, along with frequency response changes the attack and decay times (rise and fall times). The ear is very sensitive in this regard.

A Japanese study actually measured changes, via medical PET and EEG scans, when above 20khz signal was added to the existing music.

Cheers.

Steve

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #47 on: 16 Aug 2011, 12:31 am »
Ha. Right.

Acurus DIA-100 amp = 10k input impedance.
Peachtree Audio Decco preamp output impedance = no idea  :roll:

How critical is all this anyway?

Well, from a low frequency response standpoint, 10K input Z requires a large coupling capacitor to avoid bass loss. High frequency response is not too bad, maybe even enhanced.

Cheers.

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #48 on: 16 Aug 2011, 12:41 am »
Well, from a low frequency response standpoint, 10K input Z requires a large coupling capacitor to avoid bass loss. High frequency response is not too bad, maybe even enhanced.

Cheers.

So if my preamp has an output impedance of <30ohms, will the bass response be theoretically alright?

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #49 on: 16 Aug 2011, 12:56 am »
We already confused and baffled neeko, and everything you have said is true. I admit to dumbing down the explanations. I didn't want to get into specific examples. If we start telling him to avoid specific capacitance values for 1 meter cables,for example,then we have to specify the rest of the variables in the equation. Where do we quit?
In as much as your products are tube based the 1.9k value isn't too bad.I was again generalizing and referring to SS gear.
We frequently see output stages in consumer gear with 400 or 1000 ohm resistors in them to protect against shorts when values this large are unnecessary and hurt dynamics.
Scotty


neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #50 on: 16 Aug 2011, 01:06 am »
We already confused and baffled neeko, and everything you have said is true. I admit to dumbing down the explanations. I didn't want to get into specific examples. If we start telling him to avoid specific capacitance values for 1 meter cables,for example,then we have to specify the rest of the variables in the equation. Where do we quit?
In as much as your products are tube based the 1.9k value isn't too bad.I was again generalizing and referring to SS gear.
We frequently see output stages in consumer gear with 400 or 1000 ohm resistors in them to protect against shorts when values this large are unnecessary and hurt dynamics.
Scotty

Yes Scotty, I am confused and baffled. Please try and be gentle, as this is "The Starting Block", and I am "starting" with 0 knowledge of electrical physics and engineering.

My Acurus amp is solid state, btw.

I'm asking because I have had issues with what I thought was my room/speaker interaction, it seems that bass freqs around 150-200 Hz are a bit AWOL in my system. Could impedances be a cause?

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #51 on: 16 Aug 2011, 01:24 am »
No way. If you measure the distance from from your loudspeaker drivers to the floor you will probably find that the distance from the floor of one or more of your drivers is 1/2 the wave length at 200 to 250Hz. This about 2.2 ft. to 2.75 ft.. 
 If this is the case you have floor bounce cancellation which is a very common design fault in many consumer loudspeakers.   You can try raising the speakers off the floor and see if that helps. It may also be a design quirk of the DefTech BP8020ST. You could try reversing the loudspeakers from left to right . If the woofers are on the inside put them on the outside and vice versa.
 If you have an iPhone you can down load an RTA app from studio six. It doesn't have the highest resolution but it will show you where problems are.
Scotty

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #52 on: 16 Aug 2011, 02:05 am »
No way. If you measure the distance from from your loudspeaker drivers to the floor you will probably find that the distance from the floor of one or more of your drivers is 1/2 the wave length at 200 to 250Hz. This about 2.2 ft. to 2.75 ft.. 
 If this is the case you have floor bounce cancellation which is a very common design fault in most consumer loudspeakers.   You can try raising the speakers off the floor and see if that helps. If you have an iPhone you can down load an RTA app from studio six. It doesn't have the highest resolution but it will show you where problems are.
Scotty

Hmmm, interesting. Nobody else has raised that possible issue. Tried putting my DefTech towers on some B&W bookshelf speakers to raise them up just now. Boy, did that sound bad  :lol:. Adding a resonance box to my speakers is apparently not the answer.

Downloaded RTA app. What do I do with it now?

Thanks for your help, btw.

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #53 on: 16 Aug 2011, 02:28 am »
The next step is play back pink noise through the system at about 60dB and see what you have.
Hopefully it is fairly flat at the listening position which is where you should take your measurements at.  Here is a link to a site with wave-files of test signals. http://www.burninwave.com/
Scotty

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #54 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:00 am »




What say you?

srb

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #55 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:04 am »
There's your ~ 100Hz to 200Hz bass dip.
 
Steve

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #56 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:06 am »
Could be you are measuring in a standing wave zone. That peak might disappear if you move back a foot. The hole may also be standing wave induced.You may also have the sub cranked to far as well. Have you tried swapping the speakers location yet.
Scotty

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #57 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:13 am »
There's your ~ 100Hz to 200Hz bass dip.
 
Steve

Yup. My ears have been vindicated. At least there's that.

neekomax

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #58 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:17 am »
Could be you are measuring in a standing wave zone. That peak might disappear if you move back a foot. The hole may also be standing wave induced.You may also have the sub cranked to far as well. Have you tried swapping the speakers location yet.
Scotty

1. This is after I turned the subs (1 each integrated in the speaker) down to 12:00 gain. Usually have them at 2:00.

2. I've had this problem in three different room/speaker setups. Always have the hole.

Thinking that maybe the subs don't quite cover the top of their xo range (crossed at 200Hz, I believe). Possible?

*Scotty*

Re: Volume: How much and how do you control it?
« Reply #59 on: 16 Aug 2011, 03:28 am »
Off topic,how did you post your RTA results. I tried to take a picture with my built in webcam.
Suboptimal results
 
It's possible. Does this happen when the speakers positions are reversed? Also does this happen when the speakers are farther away from room boundries?
Scotty