[oldman45]

I would be happy to babysit them for a while.

[Danny Richie]

I would be happy to babysit them for a while.

Send me an e-mail with all of your contact info.

[bryman79]

I’ve been babysitting these for a while now, so it's time to post some impressions.  My listening sessions were spaced apart by a few weeks as I have less and less time for audio these days.  The differences I describe below were more noticeable initially, and became less apparent during subsequent listening sessions.

The modified configuration seemed to be smoother and provide more depth, while the stock configuration was a bit grittier and more one-dimensional.  Overall, the modified configuration was more involving and fun to listen to.

Note that A/B testing with this configuration was difficult since it requires you to stop the music, get up, flip three switches on each speaker, sit back down, and then resume listening.  Improvements could be made by mechanically tying the three switches together, and further, by using a relay or some other means for allowing remote switching from the listening position.

-Bryan

[Coldfusion]

Is this just an experiment?  Or will you be offering upgrades for this speaker on the GR site?

How much would the upgraded crossover be if offered?

Thanks.

[Danny Richie]

Is this just an experiment?  Or will you be offering upgrades for this speaker on the GR site?

How much would the upgraded crossover be if offered?

Thanks.

It was only done for educational purposes.

If someone owned a pair of these and really wanted to upgrade them then I could provide everything necessary. So if that is something that you are interested in then I could get you taken care of.

[mlundy57]

These speakers arrived via Fed-Ex a couple days age. Thanks Bryan.

I have set them up in the smaller upstairs room to begin with. In this location they are powered by a Denon 1912 AVR with a Sony BDP S-570 as the source. In addition to CD's, SACD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray discs I have music in uncompressed wav files ranging in resolution from 44.1Kz/16 bit to 192Kz/24 bit.

I have only listened to these speakers a little bit so far. My initial impressions are that, in this system at least, with the stock crossovers the drivers sound like they are playing through a veil, kind of subdued, muffled or held back. The modified crossovers sound more open, cleaner, clearer, and have more depth. This is most noticeable at low to moderate volume levels but still exists at higher levels. 

With some types of music, like rock, the differences are less noticeable. With instrumental and voice pieces the differences are much more apparent.

After I listen to them in this location a while longer I plan on switching them to my 2 channel system. This system is powered by a NAD C372 stereo amp with a computer playing through an AudioQuset Dragonfly DAC as the source. J River Media Center controls the music which is in uncompressed FLAC files with resolutions from 44.1/16 to 192/24.

Mike

[mlundy57]

Danny,

How would the performance differences between the stock and upgraded crossovers on these speakers compare to:

1) A stock vs upgraded crossover for the N1X, N3S, and N3

2) a stock X-LS Encore crossover vs an upgraded crossover at the following levels:
a) Sonicap upgrade
b) Sonicap + Mills resistors upgrade
c) sonicap + Mills resistors + Erse inductors + Gen 2 by-pass caps upgrade

Thanks,

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

How would the performance differences between the stock and upgraded crossovers on these speakers compare to:

1) A stock vs upgraded crossover for the N1X, N3S, and N3

2) a stock X-LS Encore crossover vs an upgraded crossover at the following levels:
a) Sonicap upgrade
b) Sonicap + Mills resistors upgrade
c) sonicap + Mills resistors + Erse inductors + Gen 2 by-pass caps upgrade

Thanks,

Mike

Mike,

Even with the upgraded crossovers the Behringer speakers don't really compare to any of those that you listed.

[mlundy57]

Danny,

That doesn't surprise me at all. I compared my upgraded X-LS Encores to the Behringer's with the upgraded crossovers and there really was no comparison. The Encores eclipsed the Behringer's in just about every descriptive way I could think of.

What I was wondering was if the improvement in the sound between the stock and the upgraded crossovers would be similar to the improvement that would be heard between a stock crossover in one of your kits and an upgraded crossover for that same kit.

For example, if I were to build up two N1X kits, one with the crossover that comes with the kit and the other with an upgraded crossover what type of difference would I hear? Would the improvement between the upgraded and stock N1X crossovers be similar in magnitude to the differences I hear in the test speakers, more subtle, or more pronounced?

I'm not asking about the absolute sound quality between the Behringer and the N1X but about the relative difference between a stock and an upgraded crossover. 

Another way of looking at this would be that since your kits start off with much higher quality components than the stock crossover in the Behringers does upgrading one of your base crossovers make as much difference in the sound quality?

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

That doesn't surprise me at all. I compared my upgraded X-LS Encores to the Behringer's with the upgraded crossovers and there really was no comparison. The Encores eclipsed the Behringer's in just about every descriptive way I could think of.

What I was wondering was if the improvement in the sound between the stock and the upgraded crossovers would be similar to the improvement that would be heard between a stock crossover in one of your kits and an upgraded crossover for that same kit.

For example, if I were to build up two N1X kits, one with the crossover that comes with the kit and the other with an upgraded crossover what type of difference would I hear? Would the improvement between the upgraded and stock N1X crossovers be similar in magnitude to the differences I hear in the test speakers, more subtle, or more pronounced?

I'm not asking about the absolute sound quality between the Behringer and the N1X but about the relative difference between a stock and an upgraded crossover. 

Another way of looking at this would be that since your kits start off with much higher quality components than the stock crossover in the Behringers does upgrading one of your base crossovers make as much difference in the sound quality?

Mike

Oh okay. I misunderstood.

The crossover parts in the Behringer is exceptionally poor. So the difference should be more dramatic on the Behringer, but then again its drivers aren't as reveling either.

So results will be similar.

[mlundy57]

Thanks, That's what I was wondering. Glad I went with the upgraded crossovers on the Encores.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

Another point worth mentioning Mike,  if you are going to build up those N1X's (you have a pair of cabinets right?),  you may want to consder the platinum bypass caps as well The Neo 3  is fully capable of  taking advantage of those  platinum caps.

They do cost a bit but I think if you're building something using the Neo 3,  they are worth it. 

-jay

[mlundy57]

Jay,

Yep I have the cabinets and after spending the $$ and time to put on cherry veneer and French polish them I intend to use them. 

I thought about using platinums but then I would like to do a direct comparison between my X-LS Encores and the N1Xs with the same level of crossovers. If I put platinum by-pass caps in the N1X it would no longer be a fair comparison.  Decisions, decisions   

Is there some way to use the Gen 2's at first then easily upgrade to the platinums later on?

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Is there some way to use the Gen 2's at first then easily upgrade to the platinums later on?

How easy it is to swap them depends on how you solder them on.

[mlundy57]

Danny,

How would you suggest soldering them on?

The other problem I see from the Encores is that there is not enough slack wire to be able to unscrew the crossover board and pull it out so it could be worked on. 

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

How would you suggest soldering them on?

The other problem I see from the Encores is that there is not enough slack wire to be able to unscrew the crossover board and pull it out so it could be worked on. 

Mike

Just lay them on the leads of the larger cap and hit them with s drop of solder.

You'll have to remove the binding post cups on the X-LS and un-solder the wiring off of it to pull the crossover out. 

[Captainhemo]

Tougher to do if you're using tube connectors I guess.
The Neo 3 sounds great without the platinums  but even better with, I think you'll be impressed either way .  Remember , the platinums  take  a long time to burn in , probably 400-500 hrs but worth the wait IMO

-jay

[mlundy57]

Just lay them on the leads of the larger cap and hit them with s drop of solder.

You'll have to remove the binding post cups on the X-LS and un-solder the wiring off of it to pull the crossover out.

Danny,

I used tube connectors on my Encores instead of binding posts  and the N1X will have them as well.

Mike

[Danny Richie]

Danny,

I used tube connectors on my Encores instead of binding posts  and the N1X will have them as well.

Mike

Oh, then pulling the crossover in and out will not be so easy. They aren't designed to be un-soldered and re-soldered. You could make the whole back a removable panel and swap parts around.

Or build it with all the best goodies to start with.

[mlundy57]

I have now spent a few weeks listening to these speakers and comparing the different crossover networks in different set-ups.  First I set them up in the smaller upstairs room. In this location they were powered by a Denon 1912 AVR (90 wpc in stereo mode) with a Sony BDP S-570 as the source. In addition to CD's, SACD's, DVD's and Blu-Ray discs I have music on a thumb drive for this unit in uncompressed wav files ranging in resolution from 44.1Kz/16 bit to 192Kz/24 bit. Speakers were connected with AudioQuest X-2 speaker wire with AudioQuest banana plugs. I was unable to use the Electra Cable B4 speaker wires that came with the speakers because the Denon AVR would not accept spade lugs.

In this system the stock crossovers sounded like the speakers were playing through a veil, kind of subdued, muffled or held back. The modified crossovers sounded more open, cleaner, clearer, and had more depth. This was most noticeable at low to moderate volume levels but still existed at higher levels.  With some types of music, like rock, the differences were a little less noticeable. With instrumental and voice pieces the differences were much more apparent. I spent a number of listening sessions over multiple nights comparing the crossovers and the differences were consistent. The more I listened, the less I wanted to switch back to the stock crossovers. When I reached the point where I wouldn't switch back to the stock crossovers I knew this experiment was over, at least for this system.

Next I listened to them with the 2 channel system in my office. This system is powered by a NAD C372 (150 wpc) stereo amp with a computer playing through an AudioQuset Dragonfly DAC as the source. J River Media Center controls the music which is in uncompressed FLAC files with resolutions from 44.1/16 to 192/24. This amplifier would accept space lugs so I compared the different crossovers with both the Electra Cable B4 speaker wires and Blue Jeans Cable 10 White with locking banana plugs into the amp and Electra Tube Connectors to the speakers.

The results were the same. The stock crossovers sounded subdued while the upgraded crossovers were much clearer and cleaner. Different amplifiers, sources, speaker wire, it didn't matter. With every combination the upgraded crossovers were clearly superior.

Actually being able to listen to and compare two crossovers with identical electrical measurements but different quality level components is the best way to answer this question for yourself.

Thanks Danny!

Mike