SAE 1000E MC cartridge

simoon · « **on:** 28 Jun 2011, 06:11 pm »

If I remember correctly, this cartridge was pretty highly reviewed in its day (1980?).

It was manufactured by Coral in Japan. They are some available as NOS on eBay for $199.

What does anyone think?

I need something that will be a good replacement for a Blue Point Oyster that just had the cantilever collapse, while waiting to be able to afford the cartridge I really want.

anubisgrau · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 08:41 pm »

Theoretically I wouldn't expect much life left in a rubber suspension of a 30-years old MC cartridge. But maybe I'm wrong.

simoon · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Jun 2011, 09:46 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 28 Jun 2011, 08:41 pm

Theoretically I wouldn't expect much life left in a rubber suspension of a 30-years old MC cartridge. But maybe I'm wrong.

That was actually my biggest concern.

I've sent an email to the seller asking that exact question.

neobop · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 01:36 am »

I read a post by a high end cartridge manufacturer. He hand builds carts in the $4K range I believe. He has tons of 30 year old carts that were given to him. He said that he never saw the rubber deteriorate on one of these. It's the suspension wire that usually goes. I thought the same as you guys before I read his post.
neo

DaveyW · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 03:12 pm »

Hi Neo - Remember our Ortofon M20FL experiences.
I'm pretty certain mine was a duffer, possibly linked with age as visually it was perfect.

Other than that I've had good outcomes with NOS/used items
I've got some damn fine sounding low mileage 30+ year old carts.

I have'nt let this one off experience dampen my interest too much.

Cheers
Dave

simoon · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 05:16 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 29 Jun 2011, 01:36 am

I read a post by a high end cartridge manufacturer. He hand builds carts in the $4K range I believe. He has tons of 30 year old carts that were given to him. He said that he never saw the rubber deteriorate on one of these. It's the suspension wire that usually goes. I thought the same as you guys before I read his post.
neo

Thanks for the feedback!

I also received a nice reply from the eBay seller as follows:

"All these cartridges have had both the suspensions and the coils tested , they are perfect .
They carry the exact same readings as the day they left the Coral factory .
There has been no degradation in either the coils or the suspensions.
This is due mainly to the fact that they were stored in a large filing cabinet for almost thirty years .
Without any exposure to the suns damaging UV rays .

We have extensively tested both styles of cartridges on various extremely high end table and arm combinations.
Here are our findings.

The LT versions has an ever so slightly more extended top end than the E version

The E version has a more controlled and dynamic mid range and a tighter bottom end .

In our humble professional opinion the E version offers the listener an more well rounded listening experience"

DaveyW · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 05:22 pm »

Good response

Worth a punt, especially if you get some form of returns agreement if not happy.

Cheers
Dave

simoon · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: DaveyW on 29 Jun 2011, 05:22 pm

Good response

Worth a punt, especially if you get some form of returns agreement if not happy.

My thoughts exactly.

The seller (Alfred Kayser) has nothing but excellent feedback on both eBay and Audiogon, so I think I will take a gamble.

He also has these:

www.smetonearms.com
www.mullardtubes.com
www.tubeaudioproducts.com

neobop · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 08:52 pm »

Simoon,
This guy sounds reliable. Never the less, I'd go for the LT. It's more desirable than an E. He may be telling the truth, but maybe he hasn't even loosened up the suspension.

Davey,
Despite what Thaaker said, I think yours was defective. He bought them in a lot, without original packing. It's likely that a defective return got thrown in. He told you what he did, cause he has a reputation to uphold and maybe he'd be able to sell you a more expensive one.
Regards,
neo

simoon · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jun 2011, 11:57 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 29 Jun 2011, 08:52 pm

Simoon,
This guy sounds reliable. Never the less, I'd go for the LT. It's more desirable than an E. He may be telling the truth, but maybe he hasn't even loosened up the suspension.

Why is the LT version more desirable?

neobop · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Jun 2011, 11:05 am »

The line trace has greater vertical contact area and can last much longer than an elliptical. Seller says that it's more extended and that's to be expected. As to the rest, who knows? Those results could be preliminary or specific to his system/preamp or his loading. After all, he's trying to sell these and the elliptical is usually less desirable. If I were buying I'd definitely go for the LT.
neo

simoon · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jul 2011, 08:53 pm »

So, I received this last week.

I mounted it up and aligned it last Saturday.

All I can say is, this cartridge far outclasses its $200 price tag. The seller's Audiogon add makes a claim that it rivals cartridges in the $700-900 range, and after living with it for 5 days, I'm not sure I can argue.

There's no question it sounds better than a Blue Point (at double the price of the SAE).

My friend is going to bring over a Shelter 501 ($1000) this weekend and we're going to compare.

milosz · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Jul 2011, 11:50 am »

Hmmm sounds interesting.

Tell us more about this cartridge's sound, and it's performance compared to other cart's!

hotrod · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Aug 2011, 07:32 pm »

Simoon,
Any updates you can give one your new cartridge?Which one did you end up purchasing,E or LT version?
I'm in the market for a new,"different" cartridge thats relatively inexpensive for a third table and am trying to put a list together,I may add this one but need to know more.
I'm one of those tineared fools (who doesn't know good sound if it punched me in the face

) that loves the Denon house sound and have been more or less dissapointed when I stray from their line(Dynavector 17D3,Shelter 501).Currently own a handful of the 103 variants in different bodies,301 MkII,and the DL-s1 and love them all.
So hows the SAE cartridge sound?

madog99 · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 Aug 2011, 04:45 pm »

I picked one of those up this week from that guy in Canada also . Shipped it next day . Got it installed on an old Sansui FR4060 with now about 10 hours on it . It is sounding better now each day I think ? As for the sound , well I have 2 other carts on that table , a AT155lc and a Grado green . The at was the one that used to sound the best in my system on that table but now the SAE is . After a few hours I swapped and still liked the AT more , but now the SAE is the best sounding one . It has the extended treble of the AT but without the grain , bass is deeper it seems with out some of the boom on the AT, so clearer I guess would be the word .And the soundstage is now larger after a few days of use where at first it seemed a bit closed in . I expect it will continue to improve with more hours on it . I have a Denon dl-110 but it is mounted on another table so can't offer any comparison to that , yet . So I am pleased with the deal .

cheers

madog99 · « **Reply #15 on:** 21 Aug 2011, 09:34 pm »

A little update , used phones to test the SAE and the Denon DL-110 .I prefer the SAE over the Denon . The denon is on a stock Thorens 160 in another room , but used the same album and I have the same amps in each room so only diff is the tables . I used phones so the speakers would not be a factor . After listening to the SAE ran to next room , LP and phones in hand and spun the Thorens/ DL-110 , sounded a fair bit harsher , not bad mind you , but was an instant difference . they are both good carts but for now the SAE rules here .

neobop · « **Reply #16 on:** 28 Aug 2011, 01:32 am »

I was looking on WM Thakker's site and I happened to see this:
http://www.williamthakker.eu/Cartridges--HiFi-Manufacturer-SAE_c32-317-349_x1.htm

They look just like Adcoms. They had a line of HOMCs in the mid '80s. Probably made by the same people in Japan. This cart looks like a good deal. Enjoy.
neo

simoon · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 06:35 pm »

So, after living with this cartridge for a couple of months, I have come to the conclusion that this is one of the best deals going right now.

Positives:

1. Very transparent. So much more so than my Blue Point.
2. Stable and very 3d image. I can really 'see into' the soundstage.
3. Tracking. This thing tacks amazingly well.
4. Coherent. With a slight exception of the lowest bass being a tiny bit loose, from bottom to top, it is pretty seamless.
5. Accurate. I believe it errs on the analytical side of things, but not so much that there is no natural warmth.
6. Transient response is excellent.

It was a tiny bit harsh for the first couple of weeks, but it settled down nicely.

I will reiterate, I believe this cartridge does rival modern cartridges in the $700 - 900 range, as is stated by the seller.

I am going to buy another one as a backup.

madog99 · « **Reply #18 on:** 29 Aug 2011, 09:39 pm »

"I am going to buy another one as a backup."

I was sort of thinking the same thing

madog99 · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Sep 2011, 12:53 am »

After doing some recording with the different carts and being able to switch from one to the other instantly in audacity , I ordered another SAE. My MM's aren't doing it for me anymore