[Ultralight]

Still a newbie and learning.  Appreciate all the responses on this forum to my previous queries. 

Quick question from noodling around on the web.  Saw the speaker below.  How does a speaker that size and with a single driver produce 20-20khz?     Is it highly overclaimed? 

http://www.decware.com/newsite/HORN.html

Thanks in advance for any help in understanding.

Thanks,
UL

ps: I see that anyone can purchase a pair of the drivers for under $230 total so its not some hyper expensive exotic driver.

[planet10]

Within reasonable constraints (ie +/3 dB, +/5 dB) it doesn't. Some drivers in the right box are getting 40-20k thou.

Very few loudspeakers can do 20-20k. VERY FEW.

dave

[Ultralight]

planet10,

THANKS.  40-20K is still incredibly impressive to me - and preclude the use of a sub in most cases.  This reminds me that I need to give you a call and discuss the possibility of getting something from you.  Still learning.

I did hear an incredible single driver that's probably horn design a couple of days ago.  I think it was a 5" or so driver and was just breathtaking in the type of application I have - nearfield from about 4 feet away. Of course, I wasn't willing to pawn my first born AND second born to acquire that.

Thanks again.

UL

[chrisby]

planet10,

THANKS.  40-20K is still incredibly impressive to me - and preclude the use of a sub in most cases.  This reminds me that I need to give you a call and discuss the possibility of getting something from you.  Still learning.

I did hear an incredible single driver that's probably horn design a couple of days ago.  I think it was a 5" or so driver and was just breathtaking in the type of application I have - nearfield from about 4 feet away. Of course, I wasn't willing to pawn my first born AND second born to acquire that.

Thanks again.

UL

OK, we bite,  what was it?

as Dave suggested,  a lot of multiways would have trouble with a "solid" 20-20K of the sort pictured in the Decware graphics


edit:  as your own PS suggests you understand,  the drivers in a single-driver/wide-band speaker system are (arguably only a small) part of the story  - often much of which is fiction or hopeful thinking

[sebrof]

Still a newbie and learning.  Appreciate all the responses on this forum to my previous queries. 

Quick question from noodling around on the web.  Saw the speaker below.  How does a speaker that size and with a single driver produce 20-20khz?     Is it highly overclaimed? 

http://www.decware.com/newsite/HORN.html

Thanks in advance for any help in understanding.

Thanks,
UL

ps: I see that anyone can purchase a pair of the drivers for under $230 total so its not some hyper expensive exotic driver.

I guess tehcnically any speaker will do 20Hz, just like any little econo car will do 200 mph (if you drive it over a cliff with a tail wind). It's putting something out at 20Hz but way way down from average output.
In your follow up post you mentioned expensive full rangers you heard. From what I've seen there are a lot of similar speakers to the ones you mention at reasonable prices (< $2K or so).
Sounds like you are considering DIY?

[planet10]

40-20K is still incredibly impressive to me - and preclude the use of a sub in most cases.

It may reach 40, but won't move as much air as a sub. Best of both worlds is a good FR gently high passed at 60-100 hz, with 2 or more powered woofers below. Relieving the FR of low bass really helps with dynamics & high level reproduction... and with midrange finesse.

I did hear an incredible single driver that's probably horn design a couple of days ago.  I think it was a 5" or so driver and was just breathtaking in the type of application I have - nearfield from about 4 feet away. Of course, I wasn't willing to pawn my first born AND second born to acquire that.

Not necessarily. For nearfield like that something like Frugel-Horn Mk3 can go a looong ways.

dave

[planet10]

Sounds like you are considering DIY?

In the single driver world, the best boxes are diy -- or not far removed from it.

dave

[JohnR]

Headphones will do 20-20,000 Hz. As sebrof indicates, there's more to it than that though. At the bottom end, output is (severely) limited by excursion requirements. At the top end, all (*) drivers reduce the angle over which they radiate as they go up in frequency. (*) OK, almost all. I guess the point is that there's more to it than a couple of numbers - loudspeakers radiate into 3D space, and the input variables to any "spec" (should) include not just frequency but also output level.

But, horses for courses and all that. I like single-driver speakers, I'm listening to one now. Someone said something recently about the 21 flavours of icecream.

[JLM]

Just keep in mind that the 20 - 20,000 Hz mantra is an old bit of marketing hype that has never gone away.  Except for huge pipe organs, 32 Hz is the bottom for "real" music.  Old timers looked for 80 - 8,000 Hz (being limited to low powered tube amps).

The manufacturer's specs look impressive and Tang-Bang has been putting out some respected drivers of late.  The neodymium magnet, Fs of 45 Hz, Xmax of 5 mm, and $122 USD price via parts express are all impressive, especially for a 5 inch driver.

In terms of bass output its all about the laws of physics.  Big drivers go lower and are more efficient.  Cabinets only effect 300Hz and below, again bigger is better.  But I just don't see how any 5 inch driver could reach anything close to 20 Hz in room at "reasonable" spls (and I'm no headbanger), especially an 88 dB/w/m driver with 6 wpc amps.  And that "horn" design looks more like a sealed cabinet that has a small horn "leak" than anything I've seen.  Maybe the laws of physics change in Peoria?

[planet10]

And that "horn" design looks more like a sealed cabinet that has a small horn "leak" than anything I've seen. 

The offical class is BVR (Big Vent Reflex). Earliest ones are things like the Jensen UltraFlex. More recent are the Replikons, the original Spawns (Bruce, Iris, Harvey) and the Spawn Changs.

dave

[Ultralight]

Thanks everyone for the comments.

Chrisby, I wasn't trying to be coy.  Just figure no point mentioning a $18K single driver speaker, albeit with internal amplification.   The speaker I heard is the Earo High Definition ULF model.  5" driver I think.  I heard the speaker by itself without any sub.

I wonder how that 5" Tang Band compare with the Mark Audio drivers.

Thanks again.

UL

[nickd]

20hz???
I'm not convinced. Very nice box design though. If it will output 20hz at all, the IMD must be off the chart at 20khz

The Decware Co does have some very creative designs and great marketing skills. I'm a "two way + sub" kind of fellow but I still want to play with a pair of those.

[planet10]

the IMD must be off the chart at 20khz...  I'm a "two way + sub" kind of fellow

I'm a 1-way with multiple woofers guy, but mostly have the woofers disconnected,

Decware shows a graph, but it is terminus output seperate from driver output. It ignores the relative phase and separation of the 2 sources. Without a combined output everything below ~300 hz is meaningless.

dave

[Retsel]

The Kleinhorn is probably the most extreme backhorn one could imagine, and it cannot achieve 20 hz to 20K hz.  See:

http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn2.pdf

Retsel

[Æ]

Still a newbie and learning.  Appreciate all the responses on this forum to my previous queries. 

Quick question from noodling around on the web.  Saw the speaker below.  How does a speaker that size and with a single driver produce 20-20khz?     Is it highly overclaimed? 

http://www.decware.com/newsite/HORN.html

Thanks in advance for any help in understanding.

Thanks,
UL

ps: I see that anyone can purchase a pair of the drivers for under $230 total so its not some hyper expensive exotic driver.

As others have stated, most full range drivers are not capable of 20-20Khz. Since most adults cannot hear 20Khz it isn't absolutely necessary anyway. When it comes to bass there is no replacement for displacement. A big 12" - 15" full range in a large enclosure would be your best bet if you are wanting to get a lot of deep bass.

[FullRangeMan]

Still a newbie and learning.  Appreciate all the responses on this forum to my previous queries. 

Quick question from noodling around on the web.  Saw the speaker below.  How does a speaker that size and with a single driver produce 20-20khz?     Is it highly overclaimed? 

http://www.decware.com/newsite/HORN.html

Thanks in advance for any help in understanding.

Thanks,
UL

ps: I see that anyone can purchase a pair of the drivers for under $230 total so its not some hyper expensive exotic driver.

How does a speaker that size and with a single driver produce 20-20khz?
A fullrange driver is different from a woofer, the designer chooses certain characteristics that favor the desired result(full range performance) as a small voice coil, a very light cone, a very loose suspension, huge gauss power on the GAP, etc., and manipulating these all characteristics it is possible to get a good sound.

Fortunately, to get great sound is not necessary 20-20.000Hz performance, as a low bass can be up by the box(usually a big box).
The old-fashioned materials are paper cone, cloth suspension, Alnico magnet(to the sweetest harmonics), aluminium frame is good to coller the voice coil, but brass chassis are much better to the sound quality.

[geowak]

I do not know the technical side of it, but I know some Chinese companies are building speakers based on the old Western Electric single driver design. Most notably Line Magnetic Audio.

I heard one of these speakers at my dealer and it DID sound very good.

[Russell Dawkins]

The Kleinhorn is probably the most extreme backhorn one could imagine, and it cannot achieve 20 hz to 20K hz.  See:

http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/KleinHorn2.pdf

Retsel
This is my favorite example of what tends to happen when an audiophile is let loose with zero moderating effect by significant other or neighbor!

[Æ]

!

Is that a ribbon tweeter I see? Well, if it is, then technically it isn't a 1 way system

[doug s.]

Is that a ribbon tweeter I see? Well, if it is, then technically it isn't a 1 way system

if i am not mistaken, that's a 3-way system - those black tubes are subwoofers, me-thinks.  personally, being more interested in results than being a "purist", when it comes to full-range speakers, i see nothing wrong w/this type of "3-way" speaker.

doug s.